119 Ministries

[Rollo Tamasi]

I recently ran across 119 Ministries. Are they speaking Truth? Or are they men of whom Paul wrote about in Galatians?

Looking at their website, they say we need to keep the Law of Moses.
I read no further, they are wrong.

Along with Christ who said the same thing...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.

This passage was Jesus talking to a Jew still under the law.
Today, for someone to say that we need to Keep the Law of Moses, one only needs to look at the Levitical Laws to know we can't do it.
You can't, I can't, nobody can.

To pick and choose which laws you keep is not following the Law of Moses.

 

[JLB]

Praise the Lord you agree with me. KJV_Strongs(i) 5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.

Abraham was commended for His faith. For obeying God's Voice.

Abraham walked in God's Law, long before Moses was born.

God's Laws are Eternal, The Law of Moses was temporary.

The Law that Abraham walked are for us to walk in today.

Can you list the Laws that Abraham walked in?



JLB

 

[JLB]

I recently ran across 119 Ministries. Are they speaking Truth? Or are they men of whom Paul wrote about in Galatians?

Looking at their website, they say we need to keep the Law of Moses.
I read no further, they are wrong.

Along with Christ who said the same thing...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.

Amen!

Me as well.

Because I can't keep all the commandments I will go with Christ, The One who did.


Anyone who is able to keep the commandments with breaking one, is blessed.

If you break even one then you are guilty of them all.

I will go with Christ.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Praise the Lord you agree with me.

KJV_Strongs(i)
5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws

Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.

The Jews had no authority to kill Jesus. Hence bringing him to Pontius. It was the Romans who crucified him. But what was the greater sin? Condemning in their hearts the Messiah, or carrying out the physical act itself of nailing an innocent man to the cross?

You are taking Peter's words over Jesus's when Jesus said clearly that "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again." Jesus is speaking to you JLB not to blame the Jews because he laid down his life on his own volition. Yet, you want to continue to perpetuate this hatred towards the Jews for killing the Christ. Hatred is at the core of that thinking, plain and simple. We ALL had a part of the crucifixion. Mankind did, not a religion, group, ethnic race or whatever.

Maybe put into context what Peter was saying to the Council. At the very least, do not put Peter's words to be in contradiction to Jesus's. Same thing you do with Paul. You have no idea the context of what Paul is telling the readers of the Epistle's and you distort them because you don't understand the background of what and where Paul is teaching from. Paul was a Torah observant Jew till the day he died, and he taught only from the OT. He didn't create a new theology or way to live. He was providing commentary and interpretation of OT principles to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Torah. Yet when something doesn't add up that isn't in line with Words that came out of Jesus's mouth, or out of God's mouth, we use Paul as the final authority. Not God or Jesus. That is your error, thinking Paul taught contrary to the Law of Moses, which was Jesus made flesh, instead of trying to reconcile Paul's words so they are in line with the Word's from God and Jesus.

Could you answer any of these questions, or comment on any of these statements.

The Lawless one will be embraced by Jews who have conspired to build another Temple.

Judaism will embrace this Lawless one because they refuse to love the truth.


Will the Lawless one go to a Temple in Jerusalem?

Will the Lawless in fact be a Jew who is embraced by the Jews, and accepted as the Jewish Messiah.

Will the Lawless one confirm a covenant with many that will allow animal sacrifices?

Establishing their own righteousness in Lawlessness.


JLB

I cannot comment on these statements because the onus is on you to prove it from the Word.

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Do you keep all the Law of Moses, Ryan?

Where does it say we have a choice to obey only the Laws that we are able to, from the Law of Moses?



27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." Daniel 9:27

Only a Jew is allowed in the Temple Holy Place.

Only a Jew would be received as Messiah.

Only a Jew would be allowed to put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Otherwise they would just stone him to death.


JLB

 

[TOG]

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Your logic is faulty. Can you prove from the traffic laws that rape is illegal? If not, then whether or not "love your enemies" can be found in the law is irrelevant. What is relevent is whether that commandment contradicts anything in the law. It doesn't. Besides, while the phrase "love your enemies" doesn't appear in exactly those words in the law, the concept of treating your enemies the same as your neighbors is there.

If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him. (Ex. 23:4-5 ESV)
​

The prase "hate your enemies" isn't from the law in the Old Testament, but from the Pharisees interpretation, which was often wrong and which Jesus often challenged.

The TOG
​

 

[Chopper]

Good one allen.

 

[JLB]

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Your logic is faulty. Can you prove from the traffic laws that rape is illegal? If not, then whether or not "love your enemies" can be found in the law is irrelevant. What is relevent is whether that commandment contradicts anything in the law. It doesn't. Besides, while the phrase "love your enemies" doesn't appear in exactly those words in the law, the concept of treating your enemies the same as your neighbors is there.

If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him. (Ex. 23:4-5 ESV)
​

The prase "hate your enemies" isn't from the law in the Old Testament, but from the Pharisees interpretation, which was often wrong and which Jesus often challenged.

The TOG
​

Ok, show me from the Law of Moses where it says to Love your enemies.

This is what was required of the children of Israel -

We took all his cities at that time, and we utterly destroyed the men, women, and little ones of every city; we left none remaining. Deuteronomy 2:34

These enemies were not shown love, but were utterly destroyed.

Now under the New Covenant, we are commanded to Love our enemies.



JLB

 

[Ryan]

I recently ran across 119 Ministries. Are they speaking Truth? Or are they men of whom Paul wrote about in Galatians?

Looking at their website, they say we need to keep the Law of Moses.
I read no further, they are wrong.

Along with Christ who said the same thing...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.

This passage was Jesus talking to a Jew still under the law.
Today, for someone to say that we need to Keep the Law of Moses, one only needs to look at the Levitical Laws to know we can't do it.
You can't, I can't, nobody can.

To pick and choose which laws you keep is not following the Law of Moses.

Exactly allen. We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe. [MENTION=96759]TOG[/MENTION] said he comprised a list of what and cannot be observed for us in the Diaspora. Surely Israel who was mixed amongst the nations did not sit on there laurels and await new instructions from God. They only observed what they could.

 

[Ryan]

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Your logic is faulty. Can you prove from the traffic laws that rape is illegal? If not, then whether or not "love your enemies" can be found in the law is irrelevant. What is relevent is whether that commandment contradicts anything in the law. It doesn't. Besides, while the phrase "love your enemies" doesn't appear in exactly those words in the law, the concept of treating your enemies the same as your neighbors is there.

If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him. (Ex. 23:4-5 ESV)
​

The prase "hate your enemies" isn't from the law in the Old Testament, but from the Pharisees interpretation, which was often wrong and which Jesus often challenged.

The TOG
​

Ok, show me from the Law of Moses where it says to Love your enemies.

JLB

Pretty deep insight from a secular Rabbi whose only bible is the OT.

“When you encounter your enemy’s ox or ass wandering, you must take it back to him.” (Exodus 23:4)
There is a question I love to ask young people in my study sessions. Suppose you found the lost object of your enemy. For example, suppose you found the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s wallet with some cash in a parking lot. Would you return it? Would you take out the cash and then return it? Or would you keep it? The answer can be found in this week’s Torah reading.

The Torah teaches that we must return our enemy’s lost object. So many secular thinkers are convinced that the Torah is merely a human document which reflects a bunch of ancient laws and ideas. And yet, now and again, one law jumps out and teaches us that the Torah is something more; it is touched with the divine. The Torah came into an ancient primitive society and gave them insights that we still need to learn today. One of the most important insight; even our enemies are created in the image of God.

Part of how we fight our wars today is by dehumanizing our enemies. We make up names which detract from their humanity.” The Nazis did not come to power and immediately start killing Jews. Rather they passed a series of laws which slowly stripped Jews of their rights and their humanity. Eventually people began to see the Jews not as human beings but as mere vermin. It is small wonder that Nazi officers could murder Jews by day and go home to hug their families, read their poetry, listen to Brahms and Beethoven by night. The Jews in the eyes of the Germans were no longer human.

It is so easy to fight your enemy by taking away their humanity. They cease to be human, lose that dignity of being created in the image of God, and thus we can fight them without feeling any remorse. But the truth is, even our enemies are created in the image of God. We must fight Mr. Ahmadinejad’s cruel plans to build nuclear weapons to destroy Israel, while never forgetting that he also was created in the image of God. Central to the Torah is the recognition of the humanity of our enemies.

Recognizing the humanity of our enemies does not mean we have to love our enemy. The Torah does not command us to do what is emotionally impossible. I have no interest in loving Hitler. Nor does the Torah command us to “turn the other cheek.” This New Testament saying was part of a world view that saw the immediate coming of the Messianic age. For those of us who believe we live in a real world with real enemies, we must do what we must do to defend ourselves. “If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first,” the Talmud teaches. But never forget that even the person who is coming to kill you is a child of God, created in the image of the Almighty.

By recognizing the humanity of our enemy, we are recognizing that people can change. The Talmud tells the story of Rabbi Meir who prayed for the death of a cruel man who made his life miserable. Meir’s wife Beruriah heard his prayer and reprimanded him. “Do not pray that he die. Pray that he change his ways. The Bible does not say that sinners should be removed from the earth, but that sin be removed from the earth.” Enemies can change. In the Avot of Rabbi Natan, it teaches “who is strong? Whoever can turn an enemy into a friend.”

One of the greatest teachings in Judaism, which rabbis love to repeat, is the passage from the Talmud about the crossing of the Red Sea. After the waters swept over the Egyptians, the Israelites sang the song of the sea. The angels in heaven started to sing along, but God stopped them. “My children are drowning in the sea. How can you sing?” Even the evil Egyptians were God’s children.
Few of us go through life without making enemies. I once saw a sign on someone’s desk, “Friends may come and friends may go, but enemies accumulate.” Certainly we must do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves from those who would harm us. But we must never forget, even those enemies were created in the image of God. That is why we must return our enemy’s lost object.

http://www.rabbigold.com/mishpatim.htm

 

[Ryan]

Praise the Lord you agree with me.

KJV_Strongs(i)
5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws

Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.

The Jews had no authority to kill Jesus. Hence bringing him to Pontius. It was the Romans who crucified him. But what was the greater sin? Condemning in their hearts the Messiah, or carrying out the physical act itself of nailing an innocent man to the cross?

You are taking Peter's words over Jesus's when Jesus said clearly that "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again." Jesus is speaking to you JLB not to blame the Jews because he laid down his life on his own volition. Yet, you want to continue to perpetuate this hatred towards the Jews for killing the Christ. Hatred is at the core of that thinking, plain and simple. We ALL had a part of the crucifixion. Mankind did, not a religion, group, ethnic race or whatever.

Maybe put into context what Peter was saying to the Council. At the very least, do not put Peter's words to be in contradiction to Jesus's. Same thing you do with Paul. You have no idea the context of what Paul is telling the readers of the Epistle's and you distort them because you don't understand the background of what and where Paul is teaching from. Paul was a Torah observant Jew till the day he died, and he taught only from the OT. He didn't create a new theology or way to live. He was providing commentary and interpretation of OT principles to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Torah. Yet when something doesn't add up that isn't in line with Words that came out of Jesus's mouth, or out of God's mouth, we use Paul as the final authority. Not God or Jesus. That is your error, thinking Paul taught contrary to the Law of Moses, which was Jesus made flesh, instead of trying to reconcile Paul's words so they are in line with the Word's from God and Jesus.

Could you answer any of these questions, or comment on any of these statements.

The Lawless one will be embraced by Jews who have conspired to build another Temple.

Judaism will embrace this Lawless one because they refuse to love the truth.


Will the Lawless one go to a Temple in Jerusalem?

Will the Lawless in fact be a Jew who is embraced by the Jews, and accepted as the Jewish Messiah.

Will the Lawless one confirm a covenant with many that will allow animal sacrifices?

Establishing their own righteousness in Lawlessness.


JLB

I cannot comment on these statements because the onus is on you to prove it from the Word.

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Do you keep all the Law of Moses, Ryan?

Where does it say we have a choice to obey only the Laws that we are able to, from the Law of Moses?



27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." Daniel 9:27

Only a Jew is allowed in the Temple Holy Place.

Only a Jew would be received as Messiah.

Only a Jew would be allowed to put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Otherwise they would just stone him to death.


JLB

Are you kidding me? You have made your assumptions that the anti-christ will arise from Messianic Judaism on this verse?

My bible says:

Zechariah 8:23
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”

Sounds like Jews are put into a positive light here.

 

[JLB]

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

How does what you say here, compare with Take up your cross and follow Me.

What you just said, is a man made, man contrived doctrine that non of the Apostles have instructed us to do.


JLB

 

[TOG]

Ok, show me from the Law of Moses where it says to Love your enemies.

I just did.

We took all his cities at that time, and we utterly destroyed the men, women, and little ones of every city; we left none remaining. Deuteronomy 2:34

These enemies were not shown love, but were utterly destroyed.

Now under the New Covenant, we are commanded to Love our enemies.

You mean like pretty much all American Christians supported treating Iraqis? The way Christians on this site talk about Democrats, Muslims and gays? That kind of love?

The TOG
​

 

[JLB]

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Your logic is faulty. Can you prove from the traffic laws that rape is illegal? If not, then whether or not "love your enemies" can be found in the law is irrelevant. What is relevent is whether that commandment contradicts anything in the law. It doesn't. Besides, while the phrase "love your enemies" doesn't appear in exactly those words in the law, the concept of treating your enemies the same as your neighbors is there.

If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him. (Ex. 23:4-5 ESV)
​

The prase "hate your enemies" isn't from the law in the Old Testament, but from the Pharisees interpretation, which was often wrong and which Jesus often challenged.

The TOG
​

Ok, show me from the Law of Moses where it says to Love your enemies.

JLB

Pretty deep insight from a secular Rabbi whose only bible is the OT.

“When you encounter your enemy’s ox or ass wandering, you must take it back to him.” (Exodus 23:4)
There is a question I love to ask young people in my study sessions. Suppose you found the lost object of your enemy. For example, suppose you found the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s wallet with some cash in a parking lot. Would you return it? Would you take out the cash and then return it? Or would you keep it? The answer can be found in this week’s Torah reading.

The Torah teaches that we must return our enemy’s lost object. So many secular thinkers are convinced that the Torah is merely a human document which reflects a bunch of ancient laws and ideas. And yet, now and again, one law jumps out and teaches us that the Torah is something more; it is touched with the divine. The Torah came into an ancient primitive society and gave them insights that we still need to learn today. One of the most important insight; even our enemies are created in the image of God.

Part of how we fight our wars today is by dehumanizing our enemies. We make up names which detract from their humanity.” The Nazis did not come to power and immediately start killing Jews. Rather they passed a series of laws which slowly stripped Jews of their rights and their humanity. Eventually people began to see the Jews not as human beings but as mere vermin. It is small wonder that Nazi officers could murder Jews by day and go home to hug their families, read their poetry, listen to Brahms and Beethoven by night. The Jews in the eyes of the Germans were no longer human.

It is so easy to fight your enemy by taking away their humanity. They cease to be human, lose that dignity of being created in the image of God, and thus we can fight them without feeling any remorse. But the truth is, even our enemies are created in the image of God. We must fight Mr. Ahmadinejad’s cruel plans to build nuclear weapons to destroy Israel, while never forgetting that he also was created in the image of God. Central to the Torah is the recognition of the humanity of our enemies.

Recognizing the humanity of our enemies does not mean we have to love our enemy. The Torah does not command us to do what is emotionally impossible. I have no interest in loving Hitler. Nor does the Torah command us to “turn the other cheek.” This New Testament saying was part of a world view that saw the immediate coming of the Messianic age. For those of us who believe we live in a real world with real enemies, we must do what we must do to defend ourselves. “If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first,” the Talmud teaches. But never forget that even the person who is coming to kill you is a child of God, created in the image of the Almighty.

By recognizing the humanity of our enemy, we are recognizing that people can change. The Talmud tells the story of Rabbi Meir who prayed for the death of a cruel man who made his life miserable. Meir’s wife Beruriah heard his prayer and reprimanded him. “Do not pray that he die. Pray that he change his ways. The Bible does not say that sinners should be removed from the earth, but that sin be removed from the earth.” Enemies can change. In the Avot of Rabbi Natan, it teaches “who is strong? Whoever can turn an enemy into a friend.”

One of the greatest teachings in Judaism, which rabbis love to repeat, is the passage from the Talmud about the crossing of the Red Sea. After the waters swept over the Egyptians, the Israelites sang the song of the sea. The angels in heaven started to sing along, but God stopped them. “My children are drowning in the sea. How can you sing?” Even the evil Egyptians were God’s children.
Few of us go through life without making enemies. I once saw a sign on someone’s desk, “Friends may come and friends may go, but enemies accumulate.” Certainly we must do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves from those who would harm us. But we must never forget, even those enemies were created in the image of God. That is why we must return our enemy’s lost object.

http://www.rabbigold.com/mishpatim.htm

Yes, good insight from that man.

 

[Ryan]

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

How does what you say here, compare with Take up your cross and follow Me.

What you just said, is a man made, man contrived doctrine that non of the Apostles have instructed us to do.


JLB

What is discipleship? That is what Jesus is saying here. Following in his footsteps is to walk as he did.

No matter where you live, there are still standards of conduct we can do whether we live in Greenland, China, Jerusalem or the moon. We do what we can do, how hard is that?

 

[JLB]

Praise the Lord you agree with me.

KJV_Strongs(i)
5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws

Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.



I cannot comment on these statements because the onus is on you to prove it from the Word.

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Do you keep all the Law of Moses, Ryan?

Where does it say we have a choice to obey only the Laws that we are able to, from the Law of Moses?



27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." Daniel 9:27

Only a Jew is allowed in the Temple Holy Place.

Only a Jew would be received as Messiah.

Only a Jew would be allowed to put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Otherwise they would just stone him to death.


JLB

Are you kidding me? You have made your assumptions that the anti-christ will arise from Messianic Judaism on this verse?

My bible says:

Zechariah 8:23
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”

Sounds like Jews are put into a positive light here.

I love the Jews, as they are the natural seed of Abraham.

Judaism, on the other hand is the religion that the Pharisee's who murdered Jesus Christ.

Judaism, was the religion of Saul of Tarsus.

JLB

 

[JLB]

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

How does what you say here, compare with Take up your cross and follow Me.

What you just said, is a man made, man contrived doctrine that non of the Apostles have instructed us to do.


JLB

What is discipleship? That is what Jesus is saying here. Following in his footsteps is to walk as he did.

No matter where you live, there are still standards of conduct we can do whether we live in Greenland, China, Jerusalem or the moon. We do what we can do, how hard is that?

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

The context of your statement suggests that if there were a temple and Sanhedrine, then it would be lawful for you to obey what the Sanhedrine instructed.

Which is exactly my point about the Temple that they want to build today.

Thank you. I see you agree with me.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I just did.

Chapter and verse from the Law of Moses.

You mean like pretty much all American Christians supported treating Iraqis? The way Christians on this site talk about Democrats, Muslims and gays? That kind of love?

Sounds like you don't care for the New Covenant.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

How does what you say here, compare with Take up your cross and follow Me.

What you just said, is a man made, man contrived doctrine that non of the Apostles have instructed us to do.


JLB

Deuteronomy 30:1-3 “So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.

Notice that loving the Lord your God and obeying him with all our heart with the commandments from the Law of Moses preceedes their return from captivity. Ponder these words for a bit and observe that God has scattered his people throughout all the nations, yet we can still love him with all our heart and obey him from afar before being returned to his land.

 

[Ryan]

Praise the Lord you agree with me.

KJV_Strongs(i)
5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws

Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.



I cannot comment on these statements because the onus is on you to prove it from the Word.

You can not prove that we are to Love our enemies from the Law, but you still insist that we are to keep the Law of Moses.

Do you keep all the Law of Moses, Ryan?

Where does it say we have a choice to obey only the Laws that we are able to, from the Law of Moses?



27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." Daniel 9:27

Only a Jew is allowed in the Temple Holy Place.

Only a Jew would be received as Messiah.

Only a Jew would be allowed to put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Otherwise they would just stone him to death.


JLB

Are you kidding me? You have made your assumptions that the anti-christ will arise from Messianic Judaism on this verse?

My bible says:

Zechariah 8:23
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.â€â€™â€

Sounds like Jews are put into a positive light here.

I love the Jews, as they are the natural seed of Abraham.

Judaism, on the other hand is the religion that the Pharisee's who murdered Jesus Christ.

Judaism, was the religion of Saul of Tarsus.

JLB

Judaism is what Jesus practiced there JLB.

 

[Ryan]

We cannot keep all the Law of Moses because there is no temple, no Sanhedrin, no country with Torah as its constitution, no king, nothing. All we have is what we can do with the remaining instructions from God and those that we can observe.

The context of your statement suggests that if there were a temple and Sanhedrine, then it would be lawful for you to obey what the Sanhedrine instructed.

Which is exactly my point about the Temple that they want to build today.

Thank you. I see you agree with me.


JLB

1. Isaiah 2:3
   And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law [Law of Moses]will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
2. Micah 4:2 Many nations will come and say, “Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For from Zion will go forth the law [Law of Moses], Even the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

In the kingdom to come Jesus will be teaching from the Law of Moses. Interesting isn't it?