2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5; what is coming?

[FreeGrace]

It is a simple Truth to the born again. God calls....we don't join.(john 6:44) God saves...we don't work to maintain.(Titus 3:5-7) God removes our sins completely...he does not cover our sins (Psalms 103:12) God saves us to the uttermost. (Heb. 7:7:24-25)

Most of the warnings in the Scriptures are to the self righteous and deceived and should not be lumped together with born again believers. (2 Pet. 2:1-22)
And we are eternally secure because (Heb. 6:17-20) Any man that thinks he can lose his salvation, climbed in the wrong way! (Heb. 10:1-42)

Christ in us,
Douglas Summers

Amen!!

 

[Douglas Summers]

Please expound. Is this just a play on words?

No it's not a play on words. It is not explainable in human wisdom, but all born again believers have seen and fellowship with the Father. It is not a picture of His shape, but a blinding light.

 

[Nathan]

No it's not a play on words. It is not explainable in human wisdom, but all born again believers have seen and fellowship with the Father. It is not a picture of His shape, but a blinding light.

Could you expound on what you call 'see'? Are you talking about a physical light blinding to our physical eyes?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Could you expound on what you call 'see'? Are you talking about a physical light blinding to our physical eyes?

Could you expound on what you call 'see'? Are you talking about a physical light blinding to our physical eyes?

Yes, The first time it scared me, it spoke but did not understand? This makes me no more special than you or anyone else, and it is not something I pride myself on, for God is a respecter of no person. And even though I have seen Him do and answer prayer, the flesh tries to discourage me as if He will answer or fellowship no more. The Spirit is sound, but the flesh is weak.

 

[chessman]

So you think it's possible to crucify Christ again?

No.

 

[Nathan]

No.

That's what the passage in Hebrews speaks about right?

 

[JLB]

Nathan said: ↑
Or are you like FreeGrace and believe that a person who has the seal of God can do anything they want, even denying Christ, and still be sealed?

I've just pointed out the promises that the Bible makes. And the fact that "it is impossible for God to lie", from Heb 6:18.

iow, those "having believed" (Eph 1:13) are "sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit" (Eph 1:13) which is a guarantee for the day of redemption (Eph 1:14).

Jesus promised that those who receive eternal life will never perish, in John 10:28. iow, once the gift is received, the recipient WILL NEVER PERISH. And it is impossible for God to lie. This is eternal security at its most clear statement.

Futher, believers have been born again of imperishable seed, from 1 Pet 1:23. So, how can one born of imperishable seed perish? That is impossible. No one has shown otherwise.

And, if anyone did show otherwise, then the Bible is internally contradicted and not worthy of reading or believing.

All you have pointed out is your opinion, with a scripture "tag" after it, as if your opinion is scripture.

When the scripture is written out, with it's context, it clearly shows that your opinion is lacking in truth.

The above post contains no scripture, but only your opinion of what your doctrinal slant, see's through the eyes of a pre-conceived idea, with a "tag", such Eph 1:13.

I thank God we do have the scriptures to read for ourselves, and study the full counsel of what God left for us through His Apostles and prophets.


Example:

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:26-28

His sheep, are those who hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him.

It is to those, who hear His voice, and know Him, and who follow Him, that He gives eternal life.

Hear, know, follow are all conditional in the present tense.

• Hear: Strong's G191 - akouō

1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2. to hear
   1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
   2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
      
3. to hear something
   1. to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
   2. to get by hearing learn
   3. a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
   4. to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
   5. to comprehend, to understand
      

• Know: - Strong's G1097 - ginōskō

1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
   1. to become known
2. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
   1. to understand
   2. to know
      
3. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
   
   
4. to become acquainted with, to know
   

Jesus is teaching us that He has a intimate personal relationship with those who are called "His sheep".

He goes on to teach in John 17:3 that eternal life is "knowing" Him, in which He uses this same word.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Paul expounds on this idea of "knowing", and teaches us that we are joined to the Lord in an intimate personal relationship.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

• Follow Me: Strong's G190 - akoloutheō

1. to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him
2. to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple
   1. side with his party
      

Those who hear, consider, attend to, and understand His Voice, so that they know Him by being connected to Him, and follow Him, and are joined to Him as an attendant, are those to whom He gives eternal life to.


These words of Jesus from John 10:27-28 are a far cry from your biased onesided, opinion, that says:

Jesus promised that those who receive eternal life will never perish, in John 10:28.




JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

I didn't know we climbed in?

John 10:1-2

 

[Nathan]

John 10:1-2

Don't you think that passage is talking about the Shepherd? Which would be Jesus?

 

[FreeGrace]

All you have pointed out is your opinion, with a scripture "tag" after it, as if your opinion is scripture.

I think most people understand exactly what I mean. My opinion is stated in the Scripture I reference.

Now, if that isn't true, it is incumbent upon any disagree'ers to explain how the verse(s) don't support my opinion.

When the scripture is written out, with it's context, it clearly shows that your opinion is lacking in truth.

No one has done this. Again, if the claim is true, I'd really like to know how I goofed up. But so far, all I've seen are these very empty charges, all without any evidence at all.

The above post contains no scripture, but only your opinion of what your doctrinal slant, see's through the eyes of a pre-conceived idea, with a "tag", such Eph 1:13.

Then please proceed to show HOW my "opinion" isn't supported by Eph 1:13. Or can you do that?

I thank God we do have the scriptures to read for ourselves, and study the full counsel of what God left for us through His Apostles and prophets.

By all means, do read Scripture. And if any of my "opinions" aren't supported by the Scripture I reference, please proceed to explain HOW it doesn't.

Example:

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:26-28

His sheep, are those who hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him.

It is to those, who hear His voice, and know Him, and who follow Him, that He gives eternal life.

No, that isn't what the passage says. Jesus was clear about how to "never perish". The SOLE CRITERIA is to receive eternal life.

In order to know HOW one becomes a sheep of His, just read John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The phrase is a figure of speech about faith in Christ.

 

[MarkT]

So God violates the free will of people who have been prayed over??

God doesn't care about anyone's freewill. He doesn't ask people if they want to be saved. He saves whoever he wills. Ro. 9:18
Romans 9:18
So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.

He doesn't ask people if they want to go to hell.

I think in the end those who have shown us kindness will be saved. Jesus said if anyone gives us even a cup of cold water, he will be saved. Mt.10:42 Imagine how much more he will save those who we love.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Don't you think that passage is talking about the Shepherd? Which would be Jesus?

Of course it is. But those who climb in are thief's and robbers.

 

[MarkT]

FG

You can not reject the truth and possess the Spirit of truth at the same time. The saints at Ephesus were chosen and destined. They had the Spirit. Those who fall away reject the Spirit of truth.

 

[JLB]

I think most people understand exactly what I mean. My opinion is stated in the Scripture I reference.

Now, if that isn't true, it is incumbent upon any disagree'ers to explain how the verse(s) don't support my opinion.

Opinion no scripture.

Then please proceed to show HOW my "opinion" isn't supported by Eph 1:13. Or can you do that?

Opinion no scripture.

By all means, do read Scripture. And if any of my "opinions" aren't supported by the Scripture I reference, please proceed to explain HOW it doesn't.

Opinion no scripture.

No, that isn't what the passage says. Jesus was clear about how to "never perish". The SOLE CRITERIA is to receive eternal life.

In order to know HOW one becomes a sheep of His, just read John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The phrase is a figure of speech about faith in Christ.

Opinion no scripture.

No one has done this. Again, if the claim is true, I'd really like to know how I goofed up. But so far, all I've seen are these very empty charges, all without any evidence at all.

Opinion no scripture.


All you have pointed out is your opinion, with a scripture "tag" after it, as if your opinion is scripture.

When the scripture is written out, with it's context, it clearly shows that your opinion is lacking in truth.

The above post contains no scripture, but only your opinion of what your doctrinal slant, see's through the eyes of a pre-conceived idea, with a "tag", such Eph 1:13.

I thank God we do have the scriptures to read for ourselves, and study the full counsel of what God left for us through His Apostles and prophets.


Example:

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:26-28

His sheep, are those who hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him.

It is to those, who hear His voice, and know Him, and who follow Him, that He gives eternal life.

Hear, know, follow are all conditional in the present tense.

• Hear: Strong's G191 - akouō

1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2. to hear
   1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
   2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3. to hear something
   1. to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
   2. to get by hearing learn
   3. a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
   4. to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
   5. to comprehend, to understand

• Know: - Strong's G1097 - ginōskō

1. 
   
   
   • to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
     1. to become known
   • to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
     1. to understand
     2. to know
   • Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
   • to become acquainted with, to know

Jesus is teaching us that He has a intimate personal relationship with those who are called "His sheep".

He goes on to teach in John 17:3 that eternal life is "knowing" Him, in which He uses this same word.



Paul expounds on this idea of "knowing", and teaches us that we are joined to the Lord in an intimate personal relationship.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

• Follow Me: Strong's G190 - akoloutheō

1. 
   
   
   • to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him
   • to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple
     1. side with his party

Those who hear, consider, attend to, and understand His Voice, so that they know Him by being connected to Him, and follow Him, and are joined to Him as an attendant, are those to whom He gives eternal life to.


Jesus promised eternal life to those who are His sheep, to those who: hear, consider, attend to, and understand His Voice, so that they know Him by being connected to Him, and follow Him, and are joined to Him as an attendant, are those to whom He gives eternal life to.



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

It is a simple Truth to the born again. God calls....we don't join.(john 6:44) God saves...we don't work to maintain.(Titus 3:5-7) God removes our sins completely...he does not cover our sins (Psalms 103:12) God saves us to the uttermost. (Heb. 7:7:24-25)

Most of the warnings in the Scriptures are to the self righteous and deceived and should not be lumped together with born again believers. (2 Pet. 2:1-22)
And we are eternally secure because (Heb. 6:17-20) Any man that thinks he can lose his salvation, climbed in the wrong way! (Heb. 10:1-42)

Christ in us,
Douglas Summers

God call's and we choose to believe.

Jesus Christ and the Father are One.

New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Most of the warnings are to the self righteous and deceived. But there are many believers who are deceived that they can lose salvation. They climbed in the right way, but are being taught that they(but really it is OTHERS) can lose salvation.

 

[chessman]

That's what the passage in Hebrews speaks about right?

The passage speaks about what is impossible:

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB) For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​

The passage speaks for itself. It is impossible to renew "them" (the men that crucifed the Son of God and put Him to open shame) again to repentance.

You and I agreed these men were not saved. And there is no conflict with what this passage says and with any other passage in the entire Bible. It's really just that clear.

 

[Douglas Summers]

God call's and we choose to believe.

Jesus Christ and the Father are One.

New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Most of the warnings are to the self righteous and deceived. But there are many believers who are deceived that they can lose salvation. They climbed in the right way, but are being taught that they(but really it is OTHERS) can lose salvation.

Yes, except, we don't climb in, we go through the masters gate, it is the deceivers that climb in. (John 10:1-2) AKJV

 

[Nathan]

The passage speaks about what is impossible:

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB) For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​

The passage speaks for itself. It is impossible to renew "them" (the men that crucifed the Son of God and put Him to open shame) again to repentance.

You and I agreed these men were not saved. And there is no conflict with what this passage says and with any other passage in the entire Bible. It's really just that clear.

So you believe the writer says if you renewed them they would have to crucify Christ again, and that's why it's impossible?

Hebrews 6:6 (ESV) 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

 

[chessman]

This isn't a reference to Jesus' literal crucifixion. It's a reference to those believers who fall away.

I understand that it is impossible to crucify Christ again literally. However, "those" that did literally crucify Christ is exactly and quite literally who this passage speaks of. And they were NOT believers in Christ!

Claiming that those that did (literally) crucify Him were believers simply must be inserted into this passage in order to come to that conclusion.

'For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, __'believed at one time'_, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.'

Yes, they (indeed the ones that literally crucifed Him) were "once enlightened". Heck, they had the very Son of God, the light of the world, literally speaking directly to them. Now that's enlightenment! Did they accept and believe the light??? No.

Yes, they tasted the "heavenly gift" and the "good Word of God". Heck, they had the 'bread of life' literally at their fingertips. Did they 'eat' the bread and believe Him??? No! They literally had His flesh wiped and put Him to open shame and crucifed His flesh.

Yes, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit". Heck, there were made to be, quite literally, the very men that fullfilled all the Holy Spirit's prophecies about who would cause the coming Christ (the Messiah) to suffer and die on the Roman cross.

Did they 'believe' He is Messiah, the Son of God??? No! Nor does this Text say they did or even imply it (if read without bias).

 

[chessman]

So you believe the writer says if you renewed them they would have to crucify Christ again, and that's why it's impossible?

No. Nor is that what I said I believed.