6 point proof for the post trib rapture.

[veteran]

I believe that the reason Paul states in I Thess. 5:2 that Christ coming back to gather up the church , as a thief in the night. Is because of the falling away that has taken place. The church is suppose to be looking for the hope. The hope is the expectation of the gathering up of the saints. But what will happen, is that they will fall away from looking for the Lord in their faith. Once this falling away has taken place, Christ will come back as a thief in the night. Which means when we christians least expect his coming to gather up the church. The lights of the world here upon earth are the Christians. Once the lights of the world stop believing , then they stop expressing this truth that Christ is coming to gather up the church, which we are the lights of the world.

It's much more simple than that, for our Lord Jesus and His Apostles foretold us just what event is going to cause... many believers to fall away and become apostate to Christ. It will be because of a false one coming that is to work great signs and wonders on earth to fool them into thinking he is Christ. When they fall away and bow to the false one, they will think that one is Christ, so, they won't be expecting Christ's true coming later. This is why our Lord Jesus gave the warning in Matt.24 that when they say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there", for His to believe it not. Those who say that are the same ones of 1 Thess.5 that will be saying, "Peace and safety", i.e., the deceived, those who sleep in the night, spiritually.

Many simply don't want to think such a thing can happen, with a false messiah coming to play Jesus prior to His coming. But it's that kind of powerful deception that will cause many to fall, be snared, and taken into the trap. It's why they will be saying, "Peace and safety", because they will truly think Christ has come, and it's all over. We were told the "vile person" in Daniel 11 will destroy by peace, and craft will prosper in his hand. That false messiah is not coming to wipe everyone off the face of the earth; he's coming to try and get the whole world to worship him in place of The Father and The Son, exalting himself above God.

 

[Mysteryman]

There can be no conflict with what our Lord Jesus said here...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

Both, the resurrection of the just, AND the resurrection of the unjust, happen at the same time per that.

Just because some fail to understand how God can pour His wrath upon the wicked while protecting His servants doesn't mean it's OK to split the those resurrections into two different time periods.

Hi V

It is my understanding that this record is talking about two different resurrections. And they will occur at two different times. Just because it states that you will hear his voice from the grave, does in no way mean that this will occur at the "same time" ! There is without any doubt in my mind, that there are two resurrections that will occur at two different times. In the book of Rev. we read of all those who are dead, be they in the grave or in the sea. This resurrection is of the unjust. The resurrection of the just occurs prior to this resurrection. This is why there is a gathering up of the saints. And this is why the Word tells us that we will not go through the tribulation (meaning the great trib). Others will, but not the saints.

And I believe this is just part of the confusion that is being exploited here on this topic.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[CraigCalef]

Good research and summary. Here is my response:

(1) True, there is a post-trib rapture of dead and alive Gentile and Jewish converts. This latter rapture is for late converts, those who are alive and remain in the Great Trib.

(2) True, there is NO pre-trib rapture because the Church must be punished for its great apostasy throughout Christian history, but especially in the last days. The fantasy rapture pretribs use is from twisting the words of Rev 4:1, John’s experience. He returned to earth to his whole body; it was a trip in the spirit. To make John a symbol of the entire Church is ridiculous eisegesis (adding meaning to the text). You should let text interpret text, not impose your fanciful visions upon it.

(3) FALSE, there is a MID-trib rapture for TRUE Gentile believers. It is found in the symbolic “child†that is RAPTURED to heaven to escape Satan’s wrath immediately after Satan and his host are judged and cast out of heaven mid-trib (Rev 12:9). The exact Greek word used here for rapture is harpazo, which means snatched away by force. It is the same exact word used for the rapture in 1Cor 15:23. This is the MAIN rapture for the Church (which occurs about 2034).It occurs exactly mid-trib because 1260 days remain (Rev 12:6). You missed it like 99% of us missed it. Only the discerning believers not involved in apostasy will know of it and will be taken to safety (2Thes 5:4). Carnal, nominal “believers†will be thrown into the Great Trib for a chance to "wash their garments" and to prove their faith to the Lord; else their names will be ERASED! from the Book of Life (Rev 3:5). This is serious times, and you better pay close attention! Your eternity depends upon it. No messing around with Babylon. A smug, sinful Christian is quick to sell his soul to the devil, especially with carnal Babylon arising. The Lord doesn’t want to see any carnal believers in His Heaven. You take your punishment in the wicked Tribulation on earth rather than take your sins into His holy Heaven.

 

[AKJVReader]

50 REASONS FOR PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE...Historical Argument

1. While posttribulationism appeared as early as 2 Thessalonians 2, many in the early church believed in the imminency of the Lord's return, which is an essential doctrine of pretribulationism. ...2. The detailed development of the pretribulational truth during the past few centuries does not prove that the doctrine is new or novel. Its development is similar to that of other major doctrines in the history of the church. Hermeneutics 3. Pretribulationism is the only view that allows literal interpretation of all Old and New Testament passages on the Great Tribulation. 4. Pretribulationism distinguishes clearly between Israel and the church and their respective programs. Nature of the Tribulation 5. Pretribulationism maintains the scriptural distinction between the Great Tribulation and tribulation in general that precedes it. 6. The Great Tribulation is properly interpreted by pretribulationists as a time of preparation for Israel's restoration (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11). It is not the purpose of the Tribulation to prepare the church for glory. 7. None of the Old Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Deu. 4:29-30; Jer. 30: 4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2). 8. None of the New Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church (Matt. 13:30; 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:4-9; 2 Thess. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18). 9. In contrast to midtribulationism, the pretribulational view provides an adequate explanation for the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 6. Midtribulationism is refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the Great Tribulation begins long before the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11. 10. The proper distinction is maintained between the prophetic trumpets of Scripture by pretribulationism. There is no proper ground for the pivotal argument of midtribulationism that the seventh trumpet of Revelation is the last trumpet in that there is no established connection between the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11, the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, and the trumpet of Matthew 24:31. They are three distinct events. 11. The unity of Daniel's seventieth week is maintained by pretribulationists. By contrast, postribulationism and midtribulationists destroy the unity of Daniel's seventieth week and confuse Israel's program with that of the church. Nature of the Church 12. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any passage dealing with the second coming of Christ after the Tribulation. 13. The church is not appointed to wrath (Rom. 5:9: 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9). The church therefore cannot enter "the great day of their wrath" (Rev. 6:17). 14. The church will not be overtaken by the day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1-9, which includes the Tribulation. 15. The possibility of a believer escaping the Tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36. 16. The church of Philadelphia was promised deliverance from "the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth" (Rev. 3:10). 17. It is characteristic of divine dealing to deliver believers before a divine judgment is inflicted on the world as illustrated in the deliverance of Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (2 Peter 2:5-9). 18. At the time of the translation of the church, all believers go to the Father's house in heaven (John 14:3) and do not immediately return to the earth after meeting Christ in the air as postribulationists teach. 19. Pretribulationism does not divide the body of Christ at the Rapture on a works principle. The teaching of a partial rapture is based on the false doctrine that the translation of the church is a reward for good works. It is rather a climactic aspect of salvation by grace. 20. The Scriptures clearly teach that all, not part, of the church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the church (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17). 21. As opposed to a view of a partial rapture, pretribulationism is founded on the definite teaching of Scripture that the death of Christ frees from all condemnation. 22. The godly remnant of the Tribulation are pictured as Israelites, not members of the church as maintained by the posttribulationists. 23. The pretribulational view, as opposed to posttribulationism, does not confuse general terms like elect and saints, which apply to the saved of all ages, with specific terms like church and those in Christ, which refer to believers of this age only. Doctrine of Imminency 24. The pretribulational interpretation teaches that the coming of Christ is actually imminent. 25. The exhortation to be comforted by the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:18) is very significant in the pretribulational view and is especially contradicted by most posttribulationists. 26. The exhortation to look for "the glorious appearing" of Christ to His own (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the Tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for signs. 27. The exhortation to purify ourselves in view of the Lord's return has most significance if His coming is imminent (1 John 3:2-3). 28. The church is uniformly exhorted to look for the coming of the Lord, while believers in the Tribulation are directed to look for signs. The Work of the Holy Spirit 29. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer of evil cannot be taken out of the world unless the church, which the Spirit indwells, is translated at the same time. The Tribulation cannot begin until this restraint is lifted. 30. The Holy Spirit as the restrainer must be taken out of the world before "the lawless one," who dominates the tribulation period, can be revealed (2 Thess. 2:6-8). 31. If the expression "except there come a falling away first" (KJV) is translated literally, "except the "departure" come first," it would plainly show the necessity of the Rapture taking place before the beginning of the Tribulation. Necessity of an Interval Between the Rapture and the Second Coming 32. According to 2 Corinthians 5:10, all believers of this age must appear before the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, an event never mentioned in the detailed accounts connected with the second coming of Christ to the earth. 33. If the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:1-5:14 are representative of the church as many expositors believe, it would necessitate the rapture and reward of the church before the Tribulation. 34. The coming of Christ for His bride must take place before the Second Coming to the earth for the wedding feast (Rev. 19:7-10). 35. Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary occupations such as farming and building houses, and they will bear children (Isa. 65:20-25). This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming to the earth, as posttribulationists teach. 36. The judgment of the Gentiles following the Second Coming (Matt. 25:31-46) indicates that both saved and unsaved are still in their natural bodies. This would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the Second Coming. 37. If the translation took place in connection with the Second Coming to the earth, there would be no need of separating the sheep from the goats at a subsequent judgment, but the separation would have taken place in the very act of the translation of the believers before Christ actually sets up His throne on earth (Matt. 25:31). 38. The judgment of Israel (Ezek. 20:34-38), which occurs subsequent to the Second Coming, indicates the necessity of regathering Israel. The separation of the saved from the unsaved in this judgment obviously takes place sometime after the Second Coming and would be unnecessary if the saved had previously been separated from the unsaved by translation. Contrast Between the Rapture and the Second Coming 39. At the time of the Rapture the saints meet Christ in the air, while at the Second Coming Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the saints on earth. 40. At the time of the Rapture the Mount of Olives is unchanged, while at the Second Coming it divides and a valley is formed to the east of Jerusalem (Zech. 14:4-5). 41. At the Rapture living saints are translated, while no saints are translated in connection with the second coming of Christ to the earth. 42. At the Rapture the saints go to heaven, while at the Second Coming to the earth the saints remain in the earth without translation. 43. At the time of the Rapture the world is unjudged and continues in sin, while at the Second Coming the world is judged and righteousness is established on the earth. 44. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance before the day of wrath, while the Second Coming is followed by the deliverance of those who have believed in Christ during the Tribulation. 45. The Rapture is described as imminent, while the Second Coming is preceded by definite signs. 46. The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the New Testament, while the Second Coming with its attendant events is a prominent doctrine of both Testaments. 47. The Rapture concerns only the saved, while the Second Coming deals with both saved and unsaved. 48. At the Rapture Satan is not bound, while at the Second Coming Satan is bound and cast into the abyss. 49. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the Rapture, while many signs must be fulfilled before the Second Coming. 50. No passage dealing with the resurrection of saints at the Second Coming ever mentions translation of living saints at the same time.

 

[felix]

Cool, I too am not sold on the 7 year tribulation period. I believe it is 1260 days as we are told in Revelation

7 years: Prophecy from Daniel
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
Note: Week in English is not a literal week in Hebrew. It simply means 7 often referring to years.

1260 days is nothing but 3.5 years, which is in the middle of the 7 year covenant, referred by Jesus as 'Abomination of Desolation'. Hence, the period of tribulation is actually 3.5 years. The first 3.5 years, anti-christ will win the heart of many and at the middle of that covenant, be declares himself to be God and persecute all Christians and Jews which Jesus asks to run to the mountains as in Matt 24:15.