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7 reasons gay ain't OK

Mike said:
Elijah, you've derailed this thread by making a statement in which the burden of proof is on you and that you will never be able to substantiate. IMHO, you lose your credibility by making, and hanging onto, an exhaustive claim like that. The most you can legitimately say is "I believe...", and no one could say you don't believe what you've said.

Further attempts to validate your statements will be deleted and could demand further action. It ends here.

:topictotopic
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You are wrong, Mike.
 
Christ_empowered said:
I'd kinda like to apologize for starting this. Seriously, I was just running through thoughts in my head and thought I'd post them, which didn't seem like a huge deal since homosexuality-related threads pop up all the time here.

To clarify for anyone who cares, I'm not trying to come off as holier-than-thou by stating reasons I've come to think that homosexuality is dead end. I'm just putting out on the forum stuff I've come up with as God has restored my mind and opened my eyes to certain things. I still struggle with same-sex attraction, just not as much as I used to. At this point, now that a lot of my gender issues and self-love issues and general immaturity and sin problems have been resolved, my same-sex attraction is less intense and more manageable. From what I understand, that's often considered a "good outcome" in so-called "reparative therapy," so I guess that's progress.

I don't think all gay lives are wasted, and lots of homosexuals are cool people who contribute to society. No argument there. I'm just trying to put my thoughts together--sort of a combined reflection on my own life, observation of what's around me, all somewhat informed by Scripture--to figure out WHY gay isn't OK Biblically and WHY homosexual behavior is considered such a serious sin in traditional Christianity (and, actually, in more traditional secular value systems, too).

So please, don't think I'm some holier-than-thou dude who prayed away the gay and is here to condemn people. I struggle. I have to run through my observations and thoughts to stay on the straight and narrow because, honestly, sometimes I get the temptation to re-interpret (or ignore) Scripture and "do my own thing."

I will say that I find it somewhat disturbing that, even among Christians, pointing out obvious problems with homosexual behavior and the "gay" community triggers accusations of being "judgmental" or somehow un-Christian. The Catholic Church has a wealth of information on homosexual orientation and behavior and reasons why The Church continues to prohibit the consummation of same-sex attraction. Although I'm not Catholic, I've always appreciated their approach to important issues. They seem to draw from the best of social sciences, philosophy, and traditional Christian thought to come to some rather impressive, cogent positions on homosexuality and other issues facing the modern believer.

Anyway, I thought about it, and I don't know that I'll contribute as much--or at all--to future "gay threads." Everybody's pretty much set in their ways, you know?
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Nicely said on a tough subject from a tougher position. :thumbsup CE

Anyway, I thought about it, and I don't know that I'll contribute as much--or at all--to future "gay threads." Everybody's pretty much set in their ways, you know?
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IMO seems to many of us (self included), are engrossed in this topic over all.
 
Christ_empowered said:
Anyway, I thought about it, and I don't know that I'll contribute as much--or at all--to future "gay threads." Everybody's pretty much set in their ways, you know?
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I dunno. I appreciate listening to other people's views, particularly their content and objective data. I've started to realize that some of my friends have progressed well beyond the actual data into rhetoric.

There are a lot of things I haven't looked into very carefully, and of course I have my own views. I'd like the more clarifying data on some of this stuff.

Among the dozen or so homosexuals I know as acquaintances and indeed some friends, I've seen some of what the OP says, that others deny are common. I can't say whether this is simply stereotyping or not, though. I'm not a researcher. But it is something worth reflecting on, and learning about the research on both sides of the issue.
 
I think if I were heterosexual, I'd be a lot more interested in the data. I am anyway, but to a much more limited extent. The information I've gathered up--psychiatric stuff, sociological stuff--is useful to me mostly because it confirms my own experiences and hard-earned insights.

I think if you read on homosexuality, you'll find that there are questions no one asks anymore. Like questions about homosexuality+narcissism. Questions about family dynamics+homosexuality. Questions about aging as a homosexual. Not PC anymore. Everybody "knows" now that homosexual=normal and healthful and not the least bit disordered. Right?
 
Christ_empowered said:
I think if I were heterosexual, I'd be a lot more interested in the data. I am anyway, but to a much more limited extent. The information I've gathered up--psychiatric stuff, sociological stuff--is useful to me mostly because it confirms my own experiences and hard-earned insights.

I think if you read on homosexuality, you'll find that there are questions no one asks anymore. Like questions about homosexuality+narcissism. Questions about family dynamics+homosexuality. Questions about aging as a homosexual. Not PC anymore. Everybody "knows" now that homosexual=normal and healthful and not the least bit disordered. Right?
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not me. when we deviate from gods plans of marriage we are in trouble and must reap that seed we sowed.
 
Christ_empowered said:
I think if you read on homosexuality, you'll find that there are questions no one asks anymore. Like questions about homosexuality+narcissism. Questions about family dynamics+homosexuality. Questions about aging as a homosexual. Not PC anymore. Everybody "knows" now that homosexual=normal and healthful and not the least bit disordered. Right?
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Yeah, and there's some validity to setting ethical lines of study. I mean, we don't experiment on humans in some ways due to the potential for abuse.

Still, the lack of confirmation for some information that seems like it could be innocuously retrieved -- that's problematic to me. General family conditions seem to be something of an easy thing to survey. You're quite right, it's not "PC" to do anything that would disturb the current PC thoughts on the matter. I remember a similar thing occurring when I was younger about child-raising systems. The "hands-off" approach was the "PC" version when I was young. However, the experimental results yielded a very different result. I remember one study describing four ways of raising children. And one non-PC version of childraising yielded more well-adjusted children. The same may well occur in other psychologies.

But you're right, studies are less well-distributed the less PC their results -- and even wildly statistically suspect results are published heavily if they are PC. It's a serious problem for arriving at reality. One wonders if a Galileo or a Copernicus will emerge in the world of psychology, or if it will remain in its present state of investigation.
 
I don't think its political correctness that is the problem to be honest. In my opinion its more along the idea that everyone is just a tad to sensitive. "PC" makes it sound like its a new thing, when in reality, over sensitivity is nothing really new.

I don't think its a bad thing to study people, but the problem is when we study groups we have to take into account location, history, racial demographic, religious demographic, age demographic, etc. Something advertising has been studying for a long time.

Narcissism is one of those things in psychology that is very vague. Its an extreme self love. I here about that and my first thought is, isn't all of American culture narcissistic? American culture seems to be a ME ME ME! culture. I feel the only reason gay men are attacked for this, is because they are the hot topic group at the moment.

This isn't an attack on your position C_E, just my 2 sense.
 
Mike said:
Elijah, you've derailed this thread by making a statement in which the burden of proof is on you and that you will never be able to substantiate. IMHO, you lose your credibility by making, and hanging onto, an exhaustive claim like that. The most you can legitimately say is "I believe...", and no one could say you don't believe what you've said.

Further attempts to validate your statements will be deleted and could demand further action. It ends here.

:topictotopic
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You seem to be saying that homosexuals cannot help being homosexual. This is heresy.
 
elijah23 said:
You seem to be saying that homosexuals cannot help being homosexual. This is heresy.
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Would you kindly clarify before continuing, so you cannot later play off the varying definitions? What definition of homosexuality are you using? Anyone who experiences same sex attraction, or those who choose to pursue it, or those who have physically had homosexual sex?

The latter two definitions can absolutely help what they do. The first definition may or may not be able to control this impulse. In any case, this would be no different than a straight person who sees an attractive opposite-gendered person and feels a sexual temptation.

I personally believe that such impulses can be "trained out" by maintaining pure thoughts, but I wouldn't strongly argue either way on that point. Temptations absolutely do exist, they differ in nature for every person, and God does give us the tools to escape sin.

On a side note, the text I quoted, your paraphrase of the situation has nothing to do with what you repeated like a parrot.
 
I have a thought. If we are born into sin, which we are. Then isnt being gay not a choice?
i personalally never woke up and decided to like guys. I just always knew i did. Even from a young age. Plus the bible never states wether being gay is wrong. It just says the sex is wrong.
 
neither did but isnt the feeding of the thoughts wrong? if one thinks of another women and is married one has commited adultery.
 
We can't but with God all things are possible... and controlling our thoughts would be what 2 Corinthians 10:5-7 is all about.

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete. You are looking at things as they are outwardly. If anyone is confident in himself that he is Christ’s, let him consider this again within himself, that just as he is Christ’s, so also are we.


The key to unlocking this is to change desires... to change our worldly and ungodly desires to be in line with what God desires for us. This is mostly the work of the Spirit as He recreates us into the image of God... but we need to do our part... by being obedient to His commandments, taking those thoughts captive, and earnestly praying that God will finish the work that He begun in us.



 
handy said:
We can't but with God all things are possible... and controlling our thoughts would be what 2 Corinthians 10:5-7 is all about.

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete. You are looking at things as they are outwardly. If anyone is confident in himself that he is Christ’s, let him consider this again within himself, that just as he is Christ’s, so also are we.


The key to unlocking this is to change desires... to change our worldly and ungodly desires to be in line with what God desires for us. This is mostly the work of the Spirit as He recreates us into the image of God... but we need to do our part... by being obedient to His commandments, taking those thoughts captive, and earnestly praying that God will finish the work that He begun in us.
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i agree with this completely
 
For me, reduction in frequency and intensity of homosexual thoughts occurred after God healed me of many of the character deficits that had led to the thoughts and behaviors. My own approach to the thoughts now is to let them pass without indulging in them. If they continue, I try to remind myself of where these thoughts+actions took me in the past--kind of keeping the "wages of sin" there in my mind, I guess. Doesn't always work, but it has helped make sodomy less appealing overall.
 
I don't mean to sound slack, but...God knows you. I mean, He made you. He knows you better than you'll ever know yourself. I'm just trying to obey and follow, hoping that there's some sort of...meaning...to my struggle. Get what I'm saying? Besides, when I take a nice, objective look at the alternative--living the gay lifestyle--I much prefer meaningful struggle and at least attempting self-renunciation to indulging in all sorts of ultimately self-destructive, degrading sins.

That's tough spot to be in, though...16 with same-sex attraction. I wish you the best.
 
Christ_empowered said:
I don't mean to sound slack, but...God knows you. I mean, He made you. He knows you better than you'll ever know yourself. I'm just trying to obey and follow, hoping that there's some sort of...meaning...to my struggle. Get what I'm saying? Besides, when I take a nice, objective look at the alternative--living the gay lifestyle--I much prefer meaningful struggle and at least attempting self-renunciation to indulging in all sorts of ultimately self-destructive, degrading sins.

That's tough spot to be in, though...16 with same-sex attraction. I wish you the best.
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thank you:)
i know he made me and my thoughts are evolving each day.
the mainstream gay lifestyle is one which i never lived in. sure i partied but that was more of a highschool thing. my first boyfriend was a devout Christian and told me he wanted someone Christian because God wants someone to lift him up in life and to make him into a better Christian he didnt want some sloppy kid that could give a care about God, to me if we were still together this would be the person i would look for and someone that i could ask God about.
someone who could pray with me and help me with God.
 
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