A Blended Gospel

[follower of Christ]

There was an old covenant and there is a new covenant but there has always been only one gospel!

Amen !
The extents that twisted minds will go to to pervert the ONE gospel of Jesus Christ that Paul preached would be astounding if not for the fact that it is to be expected given the objective of Satan to destroy it.

There is ONE gospel...and if there were any other than the one bringing that gospel would be accursed.
Paul taught CHRISTS gospel and no other.

 

[follower of Christ]

Dude if the law is retired that means its ok to murder,,,its ok to steal,,,its ok to covit,,,its ok to comit adultery right?????? after all the Law is retired from you view.......

Drew you cant be serious,,,,,,Christ didnt retire the law He fulfilled,,,,why are you taking the word fulfilled and changing it retired???????

Is the Law of Moses still in effect today?
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that the law of Moses and the old covenant were made void and obsolete at the Cross with Jesus' death to ratify this new testament.

Supporting Evidence
Firstly understand that Jesus was a Jew born under law. The law would be in effect until His death ratified His new testament and made the old 'obsolete' (not destroyed, simply unneeded, made void).
While Christ yet lived the law was to be kept because it had not yet be set aside.

For this is the covenant which I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind, and I shall inscribe them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And by no means will they teach each one his fellow citizen, and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I shall by no means remember anymore."
By the saying "new ," He has made the first obsolete. And the one becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish.
(Heb 8:10-13 EMTV)


obsolete
G3822
ÀαλαιÃ΃
palaioÃ…Â
pal-ah-yo'-o
From G3820; to make (passively become) worn out, or declare obsolete: - decay, make (wax) old.


G3822
ÀαλαιÃ΃
palaioÃ…Â
Thayer Definition:
1) to make ancient or old
1a) to become old, to be worn out
1b) of things worn out by time and use
2) to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated

In order for this to happen, however, Jesus had to die. His 'testament', sort of like a Last Will and Testament, could not go into effect until His death.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
(Heb 9:15-18 KJV)

So His testament begins at His death, which effectively 'nullified' the old testament, for all intents and purposes.
But again, while He lived the law was still intact and to be obeyed and followed.

The law had a purpose. That purpose was fulfilled in Christ...

Why then the law?
It was added on account of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom it had been promised; and it was commanded through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now the mediator is not for one person, but God is one.
Therefore, is the law against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
But the scripture has confined all under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, having been hemmed in for the faith which was to be revealed.
Therefore the law has become our custodian, leading us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.
(Gal 3:19-25 EMTV)

Its not that Christ destroyed the law, He simply was the fulfillment of the purpose of the law.

Hebrews says this;

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(Heb 7:12 KJV)

based on the whole NT, my view is that Jesus is saying that until its purpose was fufilled, the law was to remain intact and be followed.
The evidence shows that its purpose was fulfilled at the cross with the ratification of His new covenant.

http://assembly-ministries.org/studies/ ... d=1&t_id=8

 

[follower of Christ]

NIGHTMARE wrote:....im saying is that Christ died a blood sacrifice so we do not need to kill animals on alters and burn them for the remission of sins......But the law is still there,,,,

If we are still under law, then you'd better be keeping EVERY word of it...else you are guilty of all.

 

[Adullam]

We are not saved in order to break the law...but to keep it. The law is still our measuring stick, as it were, to see if we are truly walking in the grace of God. If we are, then we shall surpass the law in our walk and in our minds.

 

[Drew]

We are not saved in order to break the law...but to keep it.

I doubt it.

Do you sacrfice animals in accordance with the Torah (the Law)?

Do you abstain from pork in accordance with the Torah?

Do you stone adulterers in accordance with the Torah?

Do you avoid certain mixtures of cloth in accordance with the Torah?

etc., etc.

The Torah - the written code of practices given to Moses - is no longer in force. Jesus says it (Mark 7), Paul says it (Ephesians 2, etc.)

 

[NIGHTMARE]

NIGHTMARE wrote:....im saying is that Christ died a blood sacrifice so we do not need to kill animals on alters and burn them for the remission of sins......But the law is still there,,,,

If we are still under law, then you'd better be keeping EVERY word of it...else you are guilty of all.

I try my best but when I fall short,,,I repent.....

 

[NIGHTMARE]

We are not saved in order to break the law...but to keep it.

I doubt it.

Do you sacrfice animals in accordance with the Torah (the Law)?

Do you abstain from pork in accordance with the Torah?

Do you stone adulterers in accordance with the Torah?

Do you avoid certain mixtures of cloth in accordance with the Torah?

etc., etc.

The Torah - the written code of practices given to Moses - is no longer in force. Jesus says it (Mark 7), Paul says it (Ephesians 2, etc.)

1 Christ was the ultimate sacrifice,,,to sacrifice anythiing would be to spit in the face of
Christ.......

2 Yup got that right ,,,I dont eat pork,,,,,you eat pork I eat my smoked salmon for a week and lets see whos up for a jog.....Pigs a have non-active sweat glands,,therefor whatever they consume you also partake of God knows this.......

3 The law is thou shalt not comit adultery,,,,so we are under the law ,,,dont do it,,,but if it happens the offender is to repent,,,we are not to stone them,,the law is the same,,,in how we deal with the offender is different....

4 lol thats why i asked you if you understood the difference in statutes ordiances and the law,,,your response was

There is no difference - all the "ordnances and statutes are a part of the Law.

Just lets me know that you dont understand the difference but alot of christians do,,,me being one of them,,,so lets look at the verse


Leviticus 19:19 "Ye shall keep My statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."


Thou shall keep what?????? statutes,,,,many of the statutes are of no effect anymore because of Christ,,,,but the law is still in effect,,,,by asking this you show your ignorance concerning the statutes tof God.......
Christ said He fulfilled the law please show were he said He retired it......

 

[Drew]

We are not saved in order to break the law...but to keep it.

I doubt it.

Do you sacrfice animals in accordance with the Torah (the Law)?

Do you abstain from pork in accordance with the Torah?

Do you stone adulterers in accordance with the Torah?

Do you avoid certain mixtures of cloth in accordance with the Torah?

etc., etc.

The Torah - the written code of practices given to Moses - is no longer in force. Jesus says it (Mark 7), Paul says it (Ephesians 2, etc.)

1 Christ was the ultimate sacrifice,,,to sacrifice anythiing would be to spit in the face of
Christ.......

Hey man, its not me who says the Law with all its prescriptions about sacrifices are in effect, it is you. Remember, I am the one who says that the Law has been retired. You are the one who says it has not. So my question remains: Why are you not sacrificing animals - that is what the Law tells you to do.

 

[Adullam]

The original law was not about sacrifices. These are called ceremonial laws and these were in effect till Jesus Christ.

Jer. 7. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:


But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

 

[Cornelius]

I don't understand why Christians are against living holy lives ? I mean, we are taught that Jesus will do this through us if we believe. We are never told to do this in our own strength . To keep the law about not killing,(by nor hating even ) and not committing adultery (even in our minds) and not coveting etc etc, can only be done through those who believe God CAN. We can try as we might to always think clean thoughts and we will fail, but that is us ; that is not an accusation against Jesus Who CAN keep us from sin.

So some accept their sin as their lot in live, even when we are told that Jesus took it away. Why do they refuse the freedom offered ? Why spend so much time telling others its impossible, when God says HE CAN DO IT......but WE HAVE TO BELIEVE HE CAN.

 

[Cornelius]

And another thing: Why do they attack people who agree with the Word about it ?

 

[Cornelius]

I try my best but when I fall short,,,I repent.....

We always will fall short, just like the Jews did . Its human. That is why we now have received the life of Jesus , which can only be activated through and by faith. Jesus is the One who must live our Christian lives through us. We are suppose to be the dead partner here.(Gal 2:20) and He is suppose to be the alive One doing all the conquering including overcoming sin in us.

We ALWAYS fail............until He takes over. God allows us to fail and fail and fail until some realize that this surely must not be the way. Then they start crying out to God for revelation and He starts showing them that they can enter the REST of God (Hebrews) so that He can take over and then success can come to the believer.

 

[Cornelius]

True faith ALWAYS brings the thing believed for into manifestation. Even overcoming sin..

 

[Adullam]

The law is there as a gauge. It's like a voltmeter. Stick a meter in your wall socket (in North America) and you will read 120 volts or so. This is showing that there is power there. Can you run a light off of a voltmeter? No. A meter only detects the power that is already there. So it is with the law. We know we are walking in the Spirit when we are perfectly fulfilling the law. :yes

 

[Cornelius]

Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
:yes

 

[NIGHTMARE]

YOu cant understand what im saying until you learn what statutes and ordinances are......

Hey man, its not me who says the Law with all its prescriptions about sacrifices are in effect, it is you

O really Drew?????? I said that????? Then please point me to the post where I said it....

Why would I say that????? I already told you that Christ was the ultimate sacrifice,,,a couple post ago...

I already told you that we dont need to kill animals on alters becasue of Christ,,,,I told you that we dont stone those that comit adultery because of Christ.......I told you all these things a couple of post ago,,,shal I post it again?????? NOw why dont you post where I said

Hey man, its not me who says the Law with all its prescriptions about sacrifices are in effect, it is you

[/quote]

Now it would seem,,, you dont know the difference in sacrifices and the law itself......

 

[Drew]

Hello Nightmare:

You appear to have an incorrect understanding of what the term "Law" meant to Paul. The "Law" is the Torah, and it consists of 613 "rules" and prescriptions in the Pentateuch. Many of these rules are like this one:

Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Nameâ€â€there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD.

You can call this an "ordnance" and set it outside the purview of the Law if you wish. But that is certainly not how Paul saw things. Paul uses the term "Law" to refer to the collective set of all these rules.

The Law tells us to stone adulterers - do you deny this?

You agree that we are not to stone adulterers.

So how is it that you say that the Law - which contains this "rules" about stoning adulterers remains in effect?

 

[Drew]

Now it would seem,,, you dont know the difference in sacrifices and the law itself......

Well then, you appear to leveling the same accusation at Paul:

For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

The "Law" for Paul clearly includes this rule about not muzzling an ox. It is part of the Torah - the Law, you can look it up in the Old Testament if you do not believe me. You say the Law is still in force. Therefore, you must believe that we should not muzzle an ox.

And, of course, as I believe I have been arguing, Paul properly understands that the time of the Law has come to an end - God is no longer concerned about muzzling oxen.

 

[Grams]

I also believe in "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth"
ll Timothy 2:15

There is a "Time Past"
"Ephesians 2:11,12

"But Now"
"Ephesians 2:13

"Ages to Come"
Ephesians 2:7

We need to know who is talking and to whom.

Time Past ~ "Prophecy" Genesis - Acts

"Grace" "The Mystery" Romans to Philemon

"Ages to Come" Prophecy ~ Hebrews to Revelation

We no longer do works, we are no longer doing works . God sent His Son to Pay for are sins.
All of them .
Once you believe you have it all .
Of course the none believer will always say oh ! We can do as we wish then !

No you don't do that, if you believe in Christ dying on the cross for the sins of the world , you will also try to learn more and understand, its a free gift.

And you want to do as GOD has told us. Such a wonderful free gift why would I not want to be the best that I can .
Of course we all are sinners. God knows that. He , God is the only one perfect !

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

I also believe in "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth"
ll Timothy 2:15

There is a "Time Past"
"Ephesians 2:11,12

"But Now"
"Ephesians 2:13

"Ages to Come"
Ephesians 2:7

We need to know who is talking and to whom.

Time Past ~ "Prophecy" Genesis - Acts

"Grace" "The Mystery" Romans to Philemon

"Ages to Come" Prophecy ~ Hebrews to Revelation

We no longer do works, we are no longer doing works . God sent His Son to Pay for are sins.
All of them .
Once you believe you have it all .
Of course the none believer will always say oh ! We can do as we wish then !

No you don't do that, if you believe in Christ dying on the cross for the sins of the world , you will also try to learn more and understand, its a free gift.

And you want to do as GOD has told us. Such a wonderful free gift why would I not want to be the best that I can .
Of course we all are sinners. God knows that. He , God is the only one perfect !

eph 2 says nothing about from gen to acts, from romans to philemon and hebrews to rev.

paul is speaking here to people who are now believers, who once were dead in their sins walked in lusts etc...- this is true of every saved person from before they were saved it does not matter if they lived in matt or acts or today, it doesnt matter if they live on the last day before the resurection. Everyone who gets saved, once walked in their flesh according to lusts. This says nothing of the law or prophecy or anything else.- Now we who are saved are saved and have recieved His grace, this again does not speak anything about acts or matt or romans or philemon. Every saint who believes sits in heavenly places, itis true today it was true when he wrote it and it will be true unto the end. again this says nothing about it ending at philemon and infact describes the same truth in hebrews so that blows it out of the water.and in the ages to come all who have believed will live in their reward and we will finally see what God has for thsoe who love him. This doesnt just apply to the gentile church or people since Christ or to writtings after philemon it applies to everyone who has ebver believed and is for after rev.- Also the doctrine that we are all sinners and only He is perfect is not true, in Christ we are no longer sinners but saints. The word of God is clear that you cannot be both. Either you are a sinner and walk after flesh and do not inherit eternal life or you are a saint and you walk by faith. The NT speaks many times of how we are moving towards perfection, how we are to be perfect. as far as works go we are doing works. What you miss is that we are no longer doing dead works(that means works of flesh) and we are not doing works of law- but we are doing good works that come from faith. the good works that we do were prepared for us for us from the foundation of the world.If you believe you will have no works at all, no good works no works of faith then you should pray to recieve faith that you may begin to obey God unto good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
1Ti 5:25 Likewise also the good works [of some] are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Tts 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine [shewing] uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tts 3:8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tts 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: