A Christian Blessed by God vs. Greedy, which is it?

[persecuted]

A bible philosophy question for anyone who wants to tackle it. I have noticed that many including myself believe that America is in steep economic decline in a manner that seems permanent as opposed to cyclical.

Some say that this is due to lost blessings of God as America has fallen away from its past religious fervor. I've noticed however that many who buy the first argument claim that Americans lived with excesses and believe that Americans are now being punished for their greed. If this is so, then the philosophical question would be: if God does in fact bless a particular nation due to his personal love for how they behave are they then obligated to share this wealth with other parts of the world that then by the same argument are not blessed by God? To me there is a logic breakdown to say on the one hand America was blessed while claiming it is now being broken down by God for enjoying the fruits of this blessing.

 

[Classik]

A bible philosophy question for anyone who wants to tackle it. I have noticed that many including myself believe that America is in steep economic decline in a manner that seems permanent as opposed to cyclical.

Some say that this is due to lost blessings of God as America has fallen away from its past religious fervor. I've noticed however that many who buy the first argument claim that Americans lived with excesses and believe that Americans are now being punished for their greed. If this is so, then the philosophical question would be: if God does in fact bless a particular nation due to his personal love for how they behave are they then obligated to share this wealth with other parts of the world that then by the same argument are not blessed by God? To me there is a logic breakdown to say on the one hand America was blessed while claiming it is now being broken down by God for enjoying the fruits of this blessing.

there is a big decline in what America used to believe. America used to be crazy about God. There is a big fall in faith and we all know that. We feel so bad for it.

'Fall in faith' and 'greed' are quite different.

I think the problem has to do with the first. The later still has its effect.

you see what Israel suffered when they left God and committed evil. God punished them, and made their enemies prosperous.

 

[persecuted]

there is a big decline in what America used to believe. America used to be crazy about God. There is a big fall in faith and we all know that. We feel so bad for it.

'Fall in faith' and 'greed' are quite different.

I think the problem has to do with the first. The later still has its effect.

you see what Israel suffered when they left God and committed evil. God punished them, and made their enemies prosperous.

I agree there are other reasons a nation could lose its blessing but I am trying to get thoughts on the one specific reason that I have heard suggested in various places of late. That being that it is wrong for any nation to be "an over consumer" in a world of poverty. To take it to the bible, I don't recall God telling Solomon that he had an obligation to fund the rest of the world due to his business success. As I have been hearing the argument that formerly blessed nations are being punished for their greed much lately I am curious to hear what obligations any group or individual would have to anyone else IF in fact their prosperity has been bestowed upon them by God for being righteous in his ways.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Some say that this is due to lost blessings of God as America has fallen away from its past religious fervor.

I think there is some evidence for this view.

I've noticed however that many who buy the first argument claim that Americans lived with excesses and believe that Americans are now being punished for their greed.
What does greed have to do with the FIRST part above? I sure don't think Americans have been greedy.

If this is so, then the philosophical question would be: if God does in fact bless a particular nation due to his personal love for how they behave are they then obligated to share this wealth with other parts of the world that then by the same argument are not blessed by God? To me there is a logic breakdown to say on the one hand America was blessed while claiming it is now being broken down by God for enjoying the fruits of this blessing.
I agree - that is illogical. But again, I don't know where you are getting this. I think this "greed" nonsense misses the point.

Of course, I am open to clarification on your part!

 

[Mike]

As an American, I don't beat myself up with guilt over the wealth in my country, but visiting other terribly well poor regions of the world has given me reason to believe wealth is not necessarily a blessing. It can be a curse in disguise. Just as a rich man can find it difficult to focus on the Lord, so too can a nation. Either can be more in touch with Him when they feel dependent on Him to survive.

My hope isn't in my nation, and I don't believe my salvation goes with it. I live my life according to His Call for it and do my part to make a small difference where I'm at. I don't hold that America has any special part in His Plan. We aren't "His people", but I'm His Creation, and that is my purpose.

I do believe freedom is a blessing, and I pray we never lose that.

 

[tws]

It is difficult to say if God has abandoned America. Things have been worse in the past for this country (30's depression, WWII, Vietnam), even when faith levels were higher than now.

 

[Pizzaguy]

It is difficult to say if God has abandoned America. Things have been worse in the past for this country (30's depression, WWII, Vietnam), even when faith levels were higher than now.

Agreed. We all measure things based on a human lifetime - our own!

Now, if the spiral downward continues, then, I guess, we know. Our standard of living, overall, is headed in the wrong direction. I cannot see any hope of this reversing for a LONG, long time. Think of how many of us won't retire.

And think of those already retired, I watched a news report of some city on the east coast that has asked his municipal retirees to accept a 50% cut in pensions and a reduction in health care benefits. Understandably, they are upset. One elderly man said on camera, "I hope this whole country goes to hell".

I guess he just does not understand - the whole country IS headed that way, the fact of what he is facing is in-his-face proof that his wish has already come true.

Enjoy today - tomorrow is not going to be any picnic. The chickens have come home to roost, those in gov't service feel it. Soon, in a matter of years, the rest of us will feel it. Tax increases, social security-medicare-medicaid cuts, inflation - it's all coming.

 

[Enow]

I agree there are other reasons a nation could lose its blessing but I am trying to get thoughts on the one specific reason that I have heard suggested in various places of late. That being that it is wrong for any nation to be "an over consumer" in a world of poverty.

Could this be the reason?

Ezekiel 16: 49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I do note that America wants to take off "In God We Trust" from our currency. I do find a certain hypocrisey for a preacher to preach from the pulpit about having faith in God's Providence for individual members of the congregation to have when they go home: but yet when they gather together: they do not share that faith in God's Providence as a church when they look totithings and pledges to get members to give by the deeds of the law.

2 Corinthians 9th chapter speaks on God's indescribeable gift which was referencing His Providence and that is why a cheerful giver is one that purpose in his heart what he is to give and not out of necessity nor the need of the moment thus voiding the commandment to tithe as God is able to raise up cheerful givers as He is the One that is providing for the ministry of the church: thus if He sows sparingly, He will also reap sparingly: God is doing the providing as well as the ministry as that is the "he" that is doing this administration: 2 Corinthians 9:6-15.

So if the churches does not show faith in God's Providence because of their tithings and their pledges, how then can a nation the churches reside in, trust in God to provide?

But as this may be the other underlying problem, certainly the love of money, not strengethening the hands of the poor, and having an abundance of time for pleasure and idleness: we can see why judgment has to come: even to the removing of such blessings.

Which is why believers' hearts should be on the treasures above and not of this world, but tell that to the churches that have lost their way.

 

[BobbyKing]

First of all, God desire to bless His people, be it money, good health, special skills etc. And He also desires that those whom He has blessed will also blessed others, whether individually or collectively.

America is a country filled with many kinds of people. There are those who are blessed and have blessed others in return and there are also those who are blessed (whether by God or by their own efforts) and live an inward looking life. That said, within America, there are also opposing forces working vehemently, one for God and one against God.

So, if you are one blessed by God, what have you done with the blessing?

 

[persecuted]

Me blessed by God? Well if so its definitely not financially.

When I started this thread I wasn't really looking for anyh particular answer or even trying to drive home a point. However, the more I experience the blatant influence of Marxism and identity politics within the "christian" community the more doubtful I become of the merits of giving to global causes. If people that talk the talk insist on persecuting my freedom of speech, I doubt they are particularly "christian" to begin with. Further, with the global demands I keep hearing here and elsewhere I keep wondering why I am to believe that other people must be fundamentally useless and unable to help themselves. Strange concept that a God who brags of his powers would somehow create billions of people that can't fend for themselves and then put ME on the earth to play out his role to save humanity. No, I have a hard time believing these insistances of present day "christians".

 

[Chris]

Iv said this before on topics like this, Jesus drank wine from the skin of a dead goat and probably drank yucky water. He had no toilet as we do or hospitals, no supermarkets, not even a crappy car to travel in.

The lord let his only son live in a time by our standards would be bad hardship. Should we expect a better quality of life than was good enough for Jesus?

Maybe are all living in blessing!