A commentary on the Book of Revelation - Part 1

[Rondmon]

Brother.....may I give soome advice here.

Please focus on ONE thought at a time, post it and then allow for responce. When you run so many thoughts together it makes it impossible to respond with clarity.

When I answer a post I answer the whole post, I have stuff going on so I am usually here or on other boards for only a wee bit, if my computer is on I may still seem like I am on-line but it could be someone else or I may just leave it on and go do some garage work etc.

You said.............
"My brother, the 70th week starts when Israel joins the E.U. that sets of God's anger, and he raptures the church at that very moment.".

The timeline of the future end times is revealed in Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.

Dan. 9:27 is indeed the A.C. but he is nit the one who takes away "The Sacrifice" (which means forbidding Jesus worship by the Jews who repent at the 1335. The AoD remember is the 1290, so this can not be the A.C. who only conquers Israel 30 days later at the 1260 (DOTL) event. Notice the vs says "HE CAUSES" these things, meaning from afar he influences a Jewish High Priests decision (False Prophet). Look up Jason (real name Yeshua), he was Onias III brother, a Pious High Priest. Jason bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest, having Onias III killed. He the welcomed AE4 into the temple to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus and MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. This a a SHADOW or an Archetype Anti-Christ & False Prophet, a Gentile King and his Jewish High Priest partner who betrayed his fellow Israeli brothers. This is why understanding the TIMING of the 1335, the 1290 and 1260 are so important.

As per the 2 Thess. 2:1-3 that is the Pre Trib. Rapture. Seems you want to use this as proof of some other timing on the rapture. I dd a log on this some years ago, using Tommy Ice's understanding, and the "FALLING AWAY" was translated as DEPARTURE in the first 7 English translations, the KJV then changed it, the though is the English Church (Church of England) were taking a political swipe at the RCC. If one reads this properly, its easy to see Paul is telling them not to fear because of the Rapture he has told them about before. He says I beseech you (ask urgently) that you be not afraid BECAUSE of our Gathering unto Christ Jesus. So, the Rapture is the whole point of the passage. Then Paul explains that THE DEPARTURE & The Anti-Christ (Man of Sin) must both happen before the Wrath of God can fall so STOP FEARING !! So, the pre 70th week rapture happens, see vs. 1 AND the A.C. shows up as an E.U. President, then makes an Agreement (Covenant) with Israel, this sets off the 70th week and the Rapture so BOTH HAPPEN before God's Wrath can fall.

Then comes the Rapture as seen in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:9. T 1 Thessalonians 5:1-8 describes a time of peace and safety. Then 1 Thessalonians 5:9 promises believers that they will not have to live during the tribulation. That is, the rapture occurs before peace and safety which is the first part of the last seven-years described in Daniel 9:27. That peace starts when the antichrist signs the peace treaty (Daniel 9:27).

You may believe in the pre 70th week rapture, sometime its not clear what people espouse.

 

[Rodger]

When I answer a post I answer the whole post, I have stuff going on so I am usually here or on other boards for only a wee bit, if my computer is on I may still seem like I am on-line but it could be someone else or I may just leave it on and go do some garage work etc.


(which means forbidding Jesus worship by the Jews who repent at the 1335. The AoD remember is the 1290, so this can not be the A.C. who only conquers Israel 30 days later at the 1260 (DOTL) event. Notice the vs says "HE CAUSES" these things, meaning from afar he influences a Jewish High Priests decision (False Prophet). Look up Jason (real name Yeshua), he was Onias III brother, a Pious High Priest. Jason bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest, having Onias III killed. He the welcomed AE4 into the temple to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus and MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. This a a SHADOW or an Archetype Anti-Christ & False Prophet, a Gentile King and his Jewish High Priest partner who betrayed his fellow Israeli brothers. This is why understanding the TIMING of the 1335, the 1290 and 1260 are so important.

As per the 2 Thess. 2:1-3 that is the Pre Trib. Rapture. Seems you want to use this as proof of some other timing on the rapture. I dd a log on this some years ago, using Tommy Ice's understanding, and the "FALLING AWAY" was translated as DEPARTURE in the first 7 English translations, the KJV then changed it, the though is the English Church (Church of England) were taking a political swipe at the RCC. If one reads this properly, its easy to see Paul is telling them not to fear because of the Rapture he has told them about before. He says I beseech you (ask urgently) that you be not afraid BECAUSE of our Gathering unto Christ Jesus. So, the Rapture is the whole point of the passage. Then Paul explains that THE DEPARTURE & The Anti-Christ (Man of Sin) must both happen before the Wrath of God can fall so STOP FEARING !! So, the pre 70th week rapture happens, see vs. 1 AND the A.C. shows up as an E.U. President, then makes an Agreement (Covenant) with Israel, this sets off the 70th week and the Rapture so BOTH HAPPEN before God's Wrath can fall.


You may believe in the pre 70th week rapture, sometime its not clear what people espouse.

Then 1 Thessalonians 5:9 promises that the church will not have to live during the tribulation. That is, the rapture occurs before peace and safety which is the first part of the last seven-years described in Daniel 9:27.

You said.........
"Dan. 9:27 is indeed the A.C. but he is nit the one who takes away "The Sacrifice".

I do not agree. It seems to me that the "he" in Daniel 9:27 is the A/C and "he" takes away the daily sacrifices.
An abomination is “something that causes disgust or hatred”; and desolation is “a state of complete emptiness or destruction.” So it could be an object or a person or both. Jesus warned that something or someone that people detested would stand in the temple someday.

The NIV speaks of “the abomination that causes desolation”, where the NLT says “the sacrilegious object that causes desecration” and the CEV says “that ‘Horrible Thing’”. The Amplified Bible adds the note that the abomination of desolation is “the appalling sacrilege that astonishes and makes desolate.”

“ He" will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator” (Daniel 9:27, CSB).

“Forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation” (Daniel 11:31, NKJV).

“From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days” (Daniel 12:11, NASB).

The wording in the above translations indicates that the abomination of desolation is an object or a person and is at best ambigeous. In some other translations, the abomination appears to be a person: “On the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate” (Daniel 9:27, ESV).

Regardless of whether the abomination of desolation is a person or a thing, Daniel predicted the following:

1. A future ruler will make a treaty with the people of Israel.
2. The terms of this treaty will be for a “week”—which is to be a period of seven years.
3. 1/2 through this time, the ruler will gather his troops and put an end to the sacrifices in the Temple.
4. At that time the ruler will desecrate the temple, claim to be God setting up some type of sacrilegious object.
5. The desecration of the temple will continue until the judgment of God is finally meted out on the ruler and his followers, 1,290 days (3½ years and 1 month) later.

Now.....in 167 BC Daniel’s prophecies about the abomination of desolation seemed to have at least a partial fulfillment when a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus IV desecrated the temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus called himself “Epiphanies” (“illustrious one” or “god manifest”). He set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offering, and he sacrificed a pig on the altar. Antiochus went even further in his atrocities, slaughtering a great number of the Jews and selling others into slavery. And he issued decrees forbidding circumcision and requiring Jews to sacrifice to pagan gods and eat pig meat. This is a PICTURE of what was to come.

What Antiochus did certainly qualifies as an abomination, but it was not a complete fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Antiochus Epiphanies did not enter a covenant with Israel for seven years, for example. And in Matthew 24 Jesus, speaking some 200 years after Antiochus’s evil actions, spoke of Daniel’s prophecy as having a still future fulfillment.

Now I am not an expert in any way. I am one who holds to the futurist view, and also a pre-tribulation Rapture and as such sees the abomination of desolation prophecy as still future. In my opinion, Jesus was referring to the Antichrist who, in the end times, will establish a covenant with Israel for seven years and then break it by doing something similar to what Antiochus Epiphanies did in the temple.

The sacrilegious object Jesus called “the abomination of desolation” could be the “image of the beast” that the Antichrist’s right-hand man, the false prophet, will order to be set up and worshiped as seen in Revelation 13:14.

Of course, for Matthew 24:15 to be yet future, the temple in Jerusalem will have to be rebuilt before the tribulation begins.

To me The Abomination of Desolation IS the A/C who commits an act of desolation in the re-built Temple.

 

[Rondmon]

You said.........
"Dan. 9:27 is indeed the A.C. but he is nit the one who takes away "The Sacrifice".

I do not agree. It seems to me that the "he" in Daniel 9:27 is the A/C and "he" takes away the daily sacrifices.

Which is why you need to reread the passage you said you agreed with on the 1335, the 1290 and the 1260. If the Beast can not conquer Israel until 1260 days before the 2nd coming the how is he taking away a sacrifice and placing an AoD? When he only conquers Israel 30 days later? Now read Rev. 13 who PLACES the IMAGE? It says the False prophet does. Here the gist, you thought it was the A.C. like I did for 30 years and thus its stuck in your head as a hardcore fact. We had an Archetype in history in Antiochus & Jason. In Maccabees 2 Jason is in 7 chapters. The HE is the Anti-Christ and HE (A.C.) causes, the False Prophet is never mentioned for a reason, for the same reason we got 1290 instead of False Prophet in Daniel. If Daniel had of been told that one day a False (Jewish High Priest) Prophet would one day betray his people, then the Jews would have been so on edge from 500 BC to 70 AD that they would have killed every other High Priest. That is why we got the 1290, and why we are told HE CAUSES instead of a Jewish High Priest does this.

An abomination is “something that causes disgust or hatred”; and desolation is “a state of complete emptiness or destruction.” So it could be an object or a person or both. Jesus warned that something or someone that people detested would stand in the temple someday.

Yes, the F.P. places an IMAGE of the A.C. up in the temple. But he STOPS Jesus Worship also. You can not defile or profane a temple which is already defiled, God rent (left) the temple when Jesus died, it will only become cleansed when Israel accepts Jesus, they do so at the 1335 event, 45 days before the 1290 happens and 75 days before the AC conquers Israel.

By the way, mere words do not sway me, I put this al together when I did an Exegesis of Daniel 11 & 12 where I name ever person mentions and tell what's going on understanding the 1335, 1290 and 1260 unlocks all end time understandings. Why do you think God would allow Israel to be conquered by the AC before he gives them the SIGN? If Matt. 24:15-17 is the AC then Israel are already conquered, so WHAT GOOD is the sign? Verses 15 is the AoD which happens on the 1290, which happens 30 das before the AC conquers Israel. You said you agreed, but you can't agree or you would see what I see.

“ He" will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator” (Daniel 9:27, CSB).

“Forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation” (Daniel 11:31, NKJV).

The word Gabor (Firm) means he is insolent towards those he deals with. Daniel 11:21-34 was Antiochus NOT the A.C. who can be seen in verses 36-45. You have to get this right or you will never grasp all this my friend.

The wording in the above translations indicates that the abomination of desolation is an object or a person and is at best ambigeous. In some other translations, the abomination appears to be a person: “On the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate” (Daniel 9:27, ESV).

No, it is a PERSON, who places the Image, I explain why its just a NUMBER above, but guess what ALL THREE ARE JUST NUMBERS !! The 1260 is never called the Little Horn or A.C. we just figure out what happens 1260 days from the 2nd coming via other passages. Well, I did the same thing with the 1290 and 1335.

5. The desecration of the temple will continue until the judgment of God is finally meted out on the ruler and his followers, 1,290 days (3½ years and 1 month) later.

NO........which proves you can not agree with my 1290 nor 1335. You need to read it again. Its only the one clue that opens up all end time prophecy. The 1290 happens 30 das BEFORE the 1260. The simple math does not lie. EACH NUMBER is a set numbers of days FROM AND EVENT, until Jesus shows up to END THESE WONDERS.

What Antiochus did certainly qualifies as an abomination, but it was not a complete fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Antiochus Epiphanies did not enter a covenant with Israel for seven years, for example. And in Matthew 24 Jesus, speaking some 200 years after Antiochus’s evil actions, spoke of Daniel’s prophecy as having a still future fulfillment.

What you miss is God PAINTED a picture to what will come for us with AE4.

Now I am not an expert in any way. I am one who holds to the futurist view, and also a pre-tribulation Rapture and as such sees the abomination of desolation prophecy as still future. In my opinion, Jesus was referring to the Antichrist who, in the end times, will establish a covenant with Israel for seven years and then break it by doing something similar to what Antiochus Epiphanies did in the temple.

Ok, we are on the same team for the most part. You just have never been presented with the 1290 and 1335 so you have no way of seeing it for what it is.

Zec. 13:8-9 1/3 Jews repent, then in Zech. 14:1 God's Wrath arrives, so Israel repents before the DOTL, goes to their temple to worship Jesus (5 million repent, so thats a lot). Then the A.C. from afar, tells Israel (like Biden orders them today, except Israel joins the E.U.) that they need to stop this Jesus worship, and an Old Traditional Jew will fall right in line, they hate Jesus, even call him Yehu a slur word. So, this Old Traditional Jewish High Priest will forbid Jesus worship, not a Meat Sacrifice, and then to spite all those 5 million Jews who came unto Christ he places an Image of the E.U. President up in the temple (AoD) this is a SIGN to flee Judea Jesus told them about. See, if one understands the 1290 happens 30 days before the 1260 then they can KNOW the Anti-Christ CAN NOT be the 1290. That is why it is so important.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Which is why you need to reread the passage you said you agreed with on the 1335, the 1290 and the 1260. If the Beast can not conquer Israel until 1260 days before the 2nd coming the how is he taking away a sacrifice and placing an AoD? When he only conquers Israel 30 days later? Now read Rev. 13 who PLACES the IMAGE? It says the False prophet does. Here the gist, you thought it was the A.C. like I did for 30 years and thus its stuck in your head as a hardcore fact. We had an Archetype in history in Antiochus & Jason. In Maccabees 2 Jason is in 7 chapters. The HE is the Anti-Christ and HE (A.C.) causes, the False Prophet is never mentioned for a reason, for the same reason we got 1290 instead of False Prophet in Daniel. If Daniel had of been told that one day a False (Jewish High Priest) Prophet would one day betray his people, then the Jews would have been so on edge from 500 BC to 70 AD that they would have killed every other High Priest. That is why we got the 1290, and why we are told HE CAUSES instead of a Jewish High Priest does this.



Yes, the F.P. places an IMAGE of the A.C. up in the temple. But he STOPS Jesus Worship also. You can not defile or profane a temple which is already defiled, God rent (left) the temple when Jesus died, it will only become cleansed when Israel accepts Jesus, they do so at the 1335 event, 45 days before the 1290 happens and 75 days before the AC conquers Israel.

By the way, mere words do not sway me, I put this al together when I did an Exegesis of Daniel 11 & 12 where I name ever person mentions and tell what's going on understanding the 1335, 1290 and 1260 unlocks all end time understandings. Why do you think God would allow Israel to be conquered by the AC before he gives them the SIGN? If Matt. 24:15-17 is the AC then Israel are already conquered, so WHAT GOOD is the sign? Verses 15 is the AoD which happens on the 1290, which happens 30 das before the AC conquers Israel. You said you agreed, but you can't agree or you would see what I see.



The word Gabor (Firm) means he is insolent towards those he deals with. Daniel 11:21-34 was Antiochus NOT the A.C. who can be seen in verses 36-45. You have to get this right or you will never grasp all this my friend.


No, it is a PERSON, who places the Image, I explain why its just a NUMBER above, but guess what ALL THREE ARE JUST NUMBERS !! The 1260 is never called the Little Horn or A.C. we just figure out what happens 1260 days from the 2nd coming via other passages. Well, I did the same thing with the 1290 and 1335.


NO........which proves you can not agree with my 1290 nor 1335. You need to read it again. Its only the one clue that opens up all end time prophecy. The 1290 happens 30 das BEFORE the 1260. The simple math does not lie. EACH NUMBER is a set numbers of days FROM AND EVENT, until Jesus shows up to END THESE WONDERS.


What you miss is God PAINTED a picture to what will come for us with AE4.


Ok, we are on the same team for the most part. You just have never been presented with the 1290 and 1335 so you have no way of seeing it for what it is.

Zec. 13:8-9 1/3 Jews repent, then in Zech. 14:1 God's Wrath arrives, so Israel repents before the DOTL, goes to their temple to worship Jesus (5 million repent, so thats a lot). Then the A.C. from afar, tells Israel (like Biden orders them today, except Israel joins the E.U.) that they need to stop this Jesus worship, and an Old Traditional Jew will fall right in line, they hate Jesus, even call him Yehu a slur word. So, this Old Traditional Jewish High Priest will forbid Jesus worship, not a Meat Sacrifice, and then to spite all those 5 million Jews who came unto Christ he places an Image of the E.U. President up in the temple (AoD) this is a SIGN to flee Judea Jesus told them about. See, if one understands the 1290 happens 30 days before the 1260 then they can KNOW the Anti-Christ CAN NOT be the 1290. That is why it is so important.

I have come to understand the 1290 days as given the following.

First I would like to state that the seven vials are concurrent with the seven trumpets in Book of Revelation. Then it all integrates easily.

Also, regarding the daily burnt offering refered to the answer is in the design of the Solomonic temple which is a shadow of what's in heaven. The sanctuary was the main chamber containing the seven branched candlestick, golden altar of incense and table of show bread. Anyway, in Revelation 8:3 we have "And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all saints on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel." Now from Revelation 15:8 "And the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished."

It follows that for 1290 days from Daniel 12:12 no one is allowed to enter the sanctuary in heaven and hence the regular burnt offering shall cease in heaven. On the other hand 1335 days pass from the sealing of 144000 to Christ's second coming.

I hope this clarifies things. From Isaiah 28:21 "For the Lord will rise up as on Mount Perazim; as in the valley of Gibeon he will be roused; to do his deed - strange is his deed! and to work his work - alien is his work!"

https://christianforums.net/threads...-revelation-part-3.105182/reply?quote=1870363

 

[Rondmon]

I have come to understand the 1290 days as given the following.

First I would like to state that the seven vials are concurrent with the seven trumpets in Book of Revelation. Then it all integrates easily.

I can explain the full chronological order of Revelation in one post but for now I will just show why there are only 7 Judgments, not 21 as many think. None of them run concurrent but the Seals make them seem to do that, if one does not grasp what the Seals really are.

The Seals are not Judgments, they are Prophetic Utterance by Jesus as he opens the seals he tells what the 42 months will bring, Seals 1-5 describe the Anti-Christs 42 month rule and then Seal #6 describes God's Wrath. The A.C. is a part of God's wrath, that is why they ru parallel to each other. Just like Joel 2:31 points to the sun and moon going dark, so does Seal #6, the Seals mean nothing, they are just showing Jesus is the one who brings the Wrath, this is why Seal 7 is over in Rev. 8 with the Trumps.

Think of yourself having a 50th birthday bash, many friends come to your party, but many more sent you gifts from afar, old college friends et al. Your wife takes all the gifts that came in beforehand, and locked them in a closet with 7 Locks (Think Seals) on the door to surprise everyone, including the kids.

As you open the first lock on party night, you tell your friends of a leather bound bible you received. As you open lock #2 you you tell your friends of a nice Harmonica you ole college buddy Jim sent you (lets skip to #6) As you open theb6th lock you tell your friends of a beautiful dress shirt you daughter bought you. NOW IS THE TIME....The 7th lock is about to be opened up........BUT WAIT, not one of your friends have actually seen any of your presents yet, they have only heard to describing them, until that 7th lock is taken off no one can see anything. LIKEWISE, until Jesus takes of the 7th Seal, the Scroll that holds the 7 Judgment Trumps can not be read aloud, or seen, or brought forth. That is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, and why there is SILENCE for 30 minutes, the heavens do not rejoice in billions of humans being judged and killed, plus there is no need to say anything, Judgment is at hand. Likewise, when the 7th lock is taken off, should it tell about another gift or just stay quite and open the door?

Now one can understand Rev. 10, the 7 Thunders are the 7 Trumps, when they are sounded time will be no more [as we know it] because Jesus will be in rule the earth for 1000 years. This is why the little book was both Sweet and Bitter to John, Judgment brings everlasting life with God, but it also brings billions of human deaths.

The First Four Trumps are ONE ASTEROID (Apophis) Trump #1 is the Fire that comes in as it breaks apart and sets 1/3 (I think the 1/3 = the New World) of the trees on fire. Trump #2 is the IMPACT. Trump #3 is the FALLOUT (Wormwood) which poisons 1/3 of the Fresh Waters. Trump #4 fulfills the Seal #6 "Prophecy" as well as the Joel 2:31 "Prophecy". Then as we see with Trump #5, that is the "First Woe" we know this because Rev. 8:13 says the Three Trumps yet to sound are the Three Woes to come !! Demons are released from the Bottomless Pit. Trump #6 is the 2nd Woe which is the 200 Million Angels slaying 1/3 of the men that have taken the Mark of the Beast. Finally, Trump #7 is the 3rd Woe, and the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump and the 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe.

So, l as you can see, there are only 7 Judgments, the Seals are prophetic in nature, the Trumps are the 7 (Divine Completion) Judgments, and the 7 Vials emit out of the 7th Trump, and they are the 3rd Woe.

The 1335, 1290 and 1260 are what In stated they are, everyone will see that one day in heaven my friend.

 

[Iconoclast]

Daniel 9 was fulfilled by 70ad.

 

[Rondmon]

Daniel 9 was fulfilled by 70ad.

That is not possible according to the Dan. 9:24-27 Prophecy. Israel UST REPENT before the 70th wee can end. Its the easiest prophecy in the world to understand and I have been called unto prophecy 40 years. When I see thus, I know that person was not called unto prophecy.

 

[Rodger]

That is not possible according to the Dan. 9:24-27 Prophecy. Israel UST REPENT before the 70th wee can end. Its the easiest prophecy in the world to understand and I have been called unto prophecy 40 years. When I see thus, I know that person was not called unto prophecy.

You quoted from the book of Maccabees about Jason and that is from the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha is an occultic book and nothing in it is inspired. Therefore IMHO it should be rejected.

There is just too much information in your posts, but I will say that one of the major Divine purposes for the tribulation in relation to Israel, if not the magor one, is the conversion of the Jewish remnant to faith in Jesus as their Messiah. This will take place throughout the tribulation, but by the end of the seven-year period the entire number of the elect remnant will become converted to Jesus. That number is likely a third of the Jewish people as noted in Zechariah 13:9........
“And I will bring the third part through thefire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on Myname, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘TheLORD is my God.’”

As part of the process of bringing the Jewish remnant to faithZechariah 13:8 speaks of a purging out of the non-elect Jewish element from the nation.“’And it will come about in all the land,’ declares the LORD, ‘that two parts in it will becut off and perish; but the third will be left in it.’” The Old Testament prophets speakfrequently of the purging out of the Jewish non-elect during the tribulation.

I think this is about as far as I can go here with you. Be blessed!

 

[Rodger]

Daniel 9 was fulfilled by 70ad.

Nope.

That right there is the "Preterist" false theology that is un-biblical.

preterism is actually very similar to an unbiblical teaching that was making its rounds in the early church.

Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 2:17-18…
“…Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection [a future event] has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.”

Back in the first century, Paul tells us, there were two men, Hymenaeus and Philetus, who were confusing people in the church because they were talking about a future event as though it already happened. We might call these two men the first preterists.

 

[Rodger]

I can explain the full chronological order of Revelation in one post but for now I will just show why there are only 7 Judgments, not 21 as many think. None of them run concurrent but the Seals make them seem to do that, if one does not grasp what the Seals really are.

The Seals are not Judgments, they are Prophetic Utterance by Jesus as he opens the seals he tells what the 42 months will bring, Seals 1-5 describe the Anti-Christs 42 month rule and then Seal #6 describes God's Wrath. The A.C. is a part of God's wrath, that is why they ru parallel to each other. Just like Joel 2:31 points to the sun and moon going dark, so does Seal #6, the Seals mean nothing, they are just showing Jesus is the one who brings the Wrath, this is why Seal 7 is over in Rev. 8 with the Trumps.

Think of yourself having a 50th birthday bash, many friends come to your party, but many more sent you gifts from afar, old college friends et al. Your wife takes all the gifts that came in beforehand, and locked them in a closet with 7 Locks (Think Seals) on the door to surprise everyone, including the kids.

As you open the first lock on party night, you tell your friends of a leather bound bible you received. As you open lock #2 you you tell your friends of a nice Harmonica you ole college buddy Jim sent you (lets skip to #6) As you open theb6th lock you tell your friends of a beautiful dress shirt you daughter bought you. NOW IS THE TIME....The 7th lock is about to be opened up........BUT WAIT, not one of your friends have actually seen any of your presents yet, they have only heard to describing them, until that 7th lock is taken off no one can see anything. LIKEWISE, until Jesus takes of the 7th Seal, the Scroll that holds the 7 Judgment Trumps can not be read aloud, or seen, or brought forth. That is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, and why there is SILENCE for 30 minutes, the heavens do not rejoice in billions of humans being judged and killed, plus there is no need to say anything, Judgment is at hand. Likewise, when the 7th lock is taken off, should it tell about another gift or just stay quite and open the door?

Now one can understand Rev. 10, the 7 Thunders are the 7 Trumps, when they are sounded time will be no more [as we know it] because Jesus will be in rule the earth for 1000 years. This is why the little book was both Sweet and Bitter to John, Judgment brings everlasting life with God, but it also brings billions of human deaths.

The First Four Trumps are ONE ASTEROID (Apophis) Trump #1 is the Fire that comes in as it breaks apart and sets 1/3 (I think the 1/3 = the New World) of the trees on fire. Trump #2 is the IMPACT. Trump #3 is the FALLOUT (Wormwood) which poisons 1/3 of the Fresh Waters. Trump #4 fulfills the Seal #6 "Prophecy" as well as the Joel 2:31 "Prophecy". Then as we see with Trump #5, that is the "First Woe" we know this because Rev. 8:13 says the Three Trumps yet to sound are the Three Woes to come !! Demons are released from the Bottomless Pit. Trump #6 is the 2nd Woe which is the 200 Million Angels slaying 1/3 of the men that have taken the Mark of the Beast. Finally, Trump #7 is the 3rd Woe, and the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump and the 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe.

So, l as you can see, there are only 7 Judgments, the Seals are prophetic in nature, the Trumps are the 7 (Divine Completion) Judgments, and the 7 Vials emit out of the 7th Trump, and they are the 3rd Woe.

The 1335, 1290 and 1260 are what In stated they are, everyone will see that one day in heaven my friend.

I can help all of you very simply......There are 7 Seal, 7 Bowl and 7 Trumpet judgments.

The Seal judgments come 1st and the 7th Seal judgment is actually the set of 7 Trumpet judgments.
The 7th Trumpet Judgment is the set of 7 Bowl judgments.
The 7th Bowl judgment is Armageddon.

1st Seal........Antichrist
2nd Seal......War
3rd Seal.......Famine
4th Seal.......Death
5th Seal.......Martydom
6th Seal.......Earthly disturbances
7th Seal........Set of 7 Trumpet Judgments

1st Trumpet..........1/3 of the Earth is smitten
2nd Trumpet.........1/3 of the Oceans are smitten
3rd Trumpet...........1/3 of freahs water is smitten
4th Trumpet...........1/3 of the Sun and Moon and Stars are smitten
5th Trumpet............Locusts torment men for five months
6th Trumpet............200 million man army slay 1/3 of men
7th Trumpet.............Set of 7 Bowl Judgments

1st Bowl................................Sores on those with the mark of the beast
2nd Bowl...............................Entire Sea smitten
3rd Bowl................................All Freash water smitten
4th Bowl................................Sun scorches men
5th Bowl.................................Darkness on the Beast kingdom
6th Bowl.................................Euphrates River drys up and the 200 million man army enters Holy Land
7th Bowl.................................Great earthquake and Babylon is destroyed.

 

[Ezekiel]

Ok if that is what you believe I am not going to argue with you. But I have a question:

Ezekiel 3:3 states "And he said to me "Son of Man, feed your belly with this scroll that I give you and fill your stomach with it. Then I ate it, and it was in my mouth as sweet as honey." On the other hand on Revelation 10:9-10 we have "So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me: Take and eat it, it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey." What is this scroll that Ezekiel and John talk about? For Ezekiel and John are told to prophesy after eating the scroll.

I'll try to give you answers that may not have my post moved or deleted. The temples on earth by design are like them in heaven. Ezekiel was in the cosmos in these visions with wheels. As the Holy Spirit speaks to you after you have studied so much and ask, He shows you the truth of the matter, This is sweet as honey, even understanding, even when the saints are taken to heaven. But when you also see the destruction of all the people and planets this is bitter. No matter how much you cry say lord not so for it to not be so, it's His plan. Ezekiel is seeing planets and stars if you study it, it's the only interpretation. So Ezekiel's book and Johns book go together to give a full understanding of whats going on and that is God is building a new heaven and earth. As said at the end of Revelations. I being baptist these things are hard to see. I had to restart leave church but I know not why but that Great Spirit leads me in complete understanding. The Sixth Seal I posted is this but not all understanding is there because it is not complete with all understanding but very much is there. The scroll is the book itself. but another book is needed for the thunders. The Secret Book of John they call. Many can't read it because it crosses doctrines.

 

[Rodger]

I'll try to give you answers that may not have my post moved or deleted. The temples on earth by design are like them in heaven. Ezekiel was in the cosmos in these visions with wheels. As the Holy Spirit speaks to you after you have studied so much and ask, He shows you the truth of the matter, This is sweet as honey, even understanding, even when the saints are taken to heaven. But when you also see the destruction of all the people and planets this is bitter. No matter how much you cry say lord not so for it to not be so, it's His plan. Ezekiel is seeing planets and stars if you study it, it's the only interpretation. So Ezekiel's book and Johns book go together to give a full understanding of whats going on and that is God is building a new heaven and earth. As said at the end of Revelations. I being baptist these things are hard to see. I had to restart leave church but I know not why but that Great Spirit leads me in complete understanding. The Sixth Seal I posted is this but not all understanding is there because it is not complete with all understanding but very much is there. The scroll is the book itself. but another book is needed for the thunders. The Secret Book of John they call. Many can't read it because it crosses doctrines.

My friend......as of right now, none of the judgments in the Revelation are taking place.!

Nothing in the Revelation takes place until the Rapture. When the church is removed, then there will be a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and the A/C.

I do not intend to argue with anyone, but God is not building a New Heaven and a new earth now.

After the millennium and the final judgment, God will create a new heaven and earth where humans will dwell Rev 20). In fact, Revelation 21:2-4 says that the new heaven will descend onto the new earth. It says,

And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.”

The final destination of believers is not the current heaven. It is the new heaven and earth.

 

[Rondmon]

You quoted from the book of Maccabees about Jason and that is from the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha is an occultic book and nothing in it is inspired. Therefore IMHO it should be rejected.

Its HISTORY, I have never read it but I doubt very seriously that a book of Holy Men who God NAMES BASICALY in these verses below, are evil occultists. I quote all kind of history buffs who never knew God, history is history.

Antiochus and Jason were the Archetype False Prophet, any Wiki page knows about Onias III and his brother Onias III. Vs. 22 is about Onias III being overthrown, verse 28-34 I'll xsplain.

Dan.11:22 And with the arms of a flood(AE4 Army) shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant[is broken or killed/Onias III].

Dan. 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches(Greece); and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

{{ Antiochus had already conquered Egypt by flattery then by usurping power. He hears about some commotion in his homeland of Greece and departs, he comes against Israel and kills 60-90 K. Then he tries to return to again rule over Egypt, but a Roman Senator met him, drew a circle around him and demanded he say if he was going to attack Egypt or not, if so Rome was declaring a war with him. NOTICE, it shall not be as THE FORMER (when AE4 conquered Egypt or as THE LATTER, when the A.C. conquers Egypt in Dan. 11:42-43 }}

30 For the ships of Chittim(Rome in this case, who ever ruled Cyprus Chittim) shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary (type of AoD) of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days (Maccabean War).

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen(God will help the Maccabeans defeat these Greeks and regain self rule for about 60 years before Rome moved in) with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. (About half of Israel were in love with Hellenization, Greek culture et al.)

I used plenty of sources to research about Jason, his brother Onias III, I did nit read the Maccabeans, but I do not think a book about men battling against the Greeks is Occultist, but I digress and do not care, I am using historical facts about Jason, Onias III and AE4. The point about him being written about shows he's a major known Historical Figure, that was the point. Now do you wish to say he was not a real human being who was the archetype F.P.?

There is just too much information in your posts, but I will say that one of the major Divine purposes for the tribulation in relation to Israel, if not the magor one, is the conversion of the Jewish remnant to faith in Jesus as their Messiah. This will take place throughout the tribulation, but by the end of the seven-year period the entire number of the elect remnant will become converted to Jesus. That number is likely a third of the Jewish people as noted in Zechariah 13:9........
“And I will bring the third part through thefire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on Myname, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘TheLORD is my God.’”

There is never to much information, sounds more like you want to dodge things and kind of make excuses, I have seen those types before brother. That's like men wanting to be out of Church by 12:00, I never git that. Be about the Lords business.

The 1/3 repent BEFORE the middle of the week, read the next verse, the DOTL arrives in Zechariah 14:1. God is not going to show up and just forgive men because they are Jews IF He did why were the 2/3 not forgive also (SEE? MY POINT). All men must come unto God by FAITH ALONE !! The Jews have been hiding in the Petra/Bozrah area by the time Jesus returns for 1260 days.

As part of the process of bringing the Jewish remnant to faithZechariah 13:8 speaks of a purging out of the non-elect Jewish element from the nation.“’And it will come about in all the land,’ declares the LORD, ‘that two parts in it will becut off and perish; but the third will be left in it.’” The Old Testament prophets speakfrequently of the purging out of the Jewish non-elect during the tribulation.

I think this is about as far as I can go here with you.

Thus I win the debated points in question.

THERE IS ONLY, 7 Judgments they are the Trumpet Judgments. The 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump.

 

[Iconoclast]

Nope.

That right there is the "Preterist" false theology that is un-biblical.

preterism is actually very similar to an unbiblical teaching that was making its rounds in the early church.

Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 2:17-18…
“…Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection [a future event] has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.”

Back in the first century, Paul tells us, there were two men, Hymenaeus and Philetus, who were confusing people in the church because they were talking about a future event as though it already happened. We might call these two men the first preterists.

My friend, you need to consider that Jesus said that there were those alive, that He was speaking with ,face to face, who would not see death until they saw these things happen in their lifetime. It sounds as if you do not understand the partial preterist view.

 

[Rondmon]

My friend, you need to consider that Jesus said that there were those alive, that He was speaking with ,face to face, who would not see death until they saw these things happen in their lifetime. It sounds as if you do not understand the partial preterist view.

John saw everything in a vision. The Disciples saw Jesus return with the hoy spirit in his glorious body which overcame death. But John actually saw everything.

Any preterist view is just not a starting point.

 

[Iconoclast]

John saw everything in a vision. The Disciples saw Jesus return with the hoy spirit in his glorious body which overcame death. But John actually saw everything.

Any preterist view is just not a starting point.

Jesus told them right before the cross. then it took place.

 

[Rondmon]

Jesus told them right before the cross. then it took place.

John saw Jesus returning, he WROTE IT DOWN, what part o that do you not grasp? No one takes preterism serious my friend.

 

[Iconoclast]

John saw Jesus returning, he WROTE IT DOWN, what part o that do you not grasp? No one takes preterism serious my friend.

John saw Jesus reigning from the heavenly throne, Rev.4-5.
Jesus is ruling right now, in the midst of His enemies.
He does return at the last day, as he has already told us.
Many are coming to understand the historic truths and leave the foolish speculations that are popular.

 

[hawkman]

TOS1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.; ( Mathew 7:12, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

 

[Rodger]

My friend, you need to consider that Jesus said that there were those alive, that He was speaking with ,face to face, who would not see death until they saw these things happen in their lifetime. It sounds as if you do not understand the partial preterist view.

With all due respect......I have considered those words of Jesus and I encourge YOU to consider them in the context of their being given and with ALL the Scriptures.

You are referring to Mathew 24:34.

You as a Preterist are saying......"he generation that was alive at His time—would by no means pass away until all of these things took place (the Abomination of Desolation, the great tribulation, the coming of the Son of Man). Therefore, these things must have taken place. Jesus must have come back or He would be a false prophet!”

Well, I disagree with that opinion and this is what Jesus meant, IMHO.......
“Then, what ‘generation’ was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?” He was talking about the generation that would see “all” (v. 34) the things He just mentioned.

The key to understanding this verse (Matthew 24:34)Contextually is found by backing up a verse. Notice verse 33. Jesus said…

Matthew 24:33-34
“Even so you too, when you see these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation [What generation? the generation who, in v. 33, sees “all” those things] will not pass away until all these things take place.”
So, Jesus says “when you see all these things” (v. 33).

What things?

• The “Abomination of Desolation” (v.15)
• The time of “great tribulation” (v. 21) “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever shall.”
• The stars falling from the skies (v. 29)

That generation (the Tribulation generation) will not pass away without also seeing the coming of the Son of Man to the Earth (mentioned in v. 30).

Jesus was talking about the generation of people who would be alive during the events leading up to His Second Coming, that is, during the time of tribulation.

I more than understand it my friend, I have taught and preached against for 20 years. It is a false dichotomy.