A "dumb and deaf spirit."

[whirlwind]

Mark 9:25-26 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, "He is dead."

9:28-29 And when He was come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could not we cast him out?" And He said unto them, "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

• Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

This foul, demonic, spirit is also termed..."dumb and deaf." The spirit heard for it "came out." The spirit made sounds as it "cried." So, what does this "dumb and deaf" reference mean?

This had to be a particularly nasty, different "kind" of spirit than others. The disciples were unable to cast him out yet they were given power over "unclean spirits" so this "kind" was demonic. Perhaps what is meant by "prayer and fasting" is that only our Father can cast him out.

Your thoughts?

 

[follower of Christ]

My thoughts are that in many cases we just need to stop trying to understand things that dont have a lot of data and just accept the details we ARE given.

It doesnt matter what 'kind' of demon it was. Scripture would tell us *IF* it were important for us to know.
Since it doesnt, it isnt.

 

[toddm]

Perhaps the spirit was the causer of deafness and dumbness but not actually deaf and dumb itself.

 

[(THE)]

My thoughts are that in many cases we just need to stop trying to understand things that dont have a lot of data and just accept the details we ARE given.

It doesnt matter what 'kind' of demon it was. Scripture would tell us *IF* it were important for us to know.
Since it doesnt, it isnt.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.....

 

[follower of Christ]

Mark 9:25-26 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, "He is dead."

9:28-29 And when He was come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could not we cast him out?" And He said unto them, "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

• Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

This foul, demonic, spirit is also termed..."dumb and deaf." The spirit heard for it "came out." The spirit made sounds as it "cried." So, what does this "dumb and deaf" reference mean?

This had to be a particularly nasty, different "kind" of spirit than others. The disciples were unable to cast him out yet they were given power over "unclean spirits" so this "kind" was demonic. Perhaps what is meant by "prayer and fasting" is that only our Father can cast him out.

Your thoughts?

Oh no.

Please tell us that you ARENT insinuating that the 'spirit' they couldnt cast out was the Holy Spirit, WW.
I didnt realize that you highlighted some of the items you did before and now Im starting to wonder if you highlighted 'made sounds' for a reason.

How about you tell us what YOU think is going on and then we can respond.

.

 

[whirlwind]

My thoughts are that in many cases we just need to stop trying to understand things that dont have a lot of data and just accept the details we ARE given.

It doesnt matter what 'kind' of demon it was. Scripture would tell us *IF* it were important for us to know.
Since it doesnt, it isnt.

• Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

In working with the "details we are given," we know it isn't just your average old run-of-the-mill "unclean spirit" for Jesus gave them power to cast them out. He also gave that power to us...we too are His disciples. Perhaps it is important to know, after all...why would this event have been written, why show the difference in this "kind" of spirit, why tell us the only way to deal with it?

 

[whirlwind]

Perhaps the spirit was the causer of deafness and dumbness but not actually deaf and dumb itself.

Todd....you got it! That has to be it. This kind of demonic spirit causes souls, not just this one, to be deaf and dumb...unable to understand or teach God's Words.

Thank you very much.

 

[whirlwind]

Mark 9:25-26 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, "He is dead."

9:28-29 And when He was come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could not we cast him out?" And He said unto them, "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

• Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

This foul, demonic, spirit is also termed..."dumb and deaf." The spirit heard for it "came out." The spirit made sounds as it "cried." So, what does this "dumb and deaf" reference mean?

This had to be a particularly nasty, different "kind" of spirit than others. The disciples were unable to cast him out yet they were given power over "unclean spirits" so this "kind" was demonic. Perhaps what is meant by "prayer and fasting" is that only our Father can cast him out.

Your thoughts?

Oh no.

Please tell us that you ARENT insinuating that the 'spirit' they couldnt cast out was the Holy Spirit, WW.
I didnt realize that you highlighted some of the items you did before and now Im starting to wonder if you highlighted 'made sounds' for a reason.

How about you tell us what YOU think is going on and then we can respond.

.

No...that's not what I thought. And, I believe Todd has the answer on the deaf and dumb question. What I still wonder is what is meant by the prayer and fasting. Everything is through His power...whether we fast or not. I guess it simply means that this, being a demonic spirit, can only be cast out by Him, not Him through us. The only thing we could do if confronted by one is...pray and fast.

A thought just came to mind....maybe our example is.....

• Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

If Michael handled him like that....we should just...pray and fast! :o

 

[follower of Christ]

No...that's not what I thought.

Well. At least thats good to know

 

[Sinthesis]

Mark 9:25-26 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, "He is dead."

9:28-29 And when He was come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could not we cast him out?" And He said unto them, "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

• Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

This foul, demonic, spirit is also termed..."dumb and deaf." The spirit heard for it "came out." The spirit made sounds as it "cried." So, what does this "dumb and deaf" reference mean?

This had to be a particularly nasty, different "kind" of spirit than others. The disciples were unable to cast him out yet they were given power over "unclean spirits" so this "kind" was demonic. Perhaps what is meant by "prayer and fasting" is that only our Father can cast him out.

Your thoughts?

:rolling Why not just let Luke and Matthew answer your question instead of torturing the poor words of Mark. Just read Luke 9:37-42 before Matthew 17:14-21 unless you want to spoil the ending.

 

[Elijah674]

Man was created a little lower than angels for a reason. I don't think that, that meant I.Q./wise per/say, but for the death process without 'angel/food' & the Tree/of/life/requirement of which both were removed after sin. From heavens rebellion ones + earths rebellion ones. And sin would destroy all in time. (ONLY GOD HAS IMMORTALITY!)

More could be said! But will leave it here for now. But HELL WILL BE A MERCIFUL yet 'strange act of God' in its END! Obad. 1:16 (the devil is a VERY HARD TASKMASTER!)

--Elijah

 

[whirlwind]

Mark 9:25-26 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, "He is dead."

9:28-29 And when He was come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could not we cast him out?" And He said unto them, "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

• Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

This foul, demonic, spirit is also termed..."dumb and deaf." The spirit heard for it "came out." The spirit made sounds as it "cried." So, what does this "dumb and deaf" reference mean?

This had to be a particularly nasty, different "kind" of spirit than others. The disciples were unable to cast him out yet they were given power over "unclean spirits" so this "kind" was demonic. Perhaps what is meant by "prayer and fasting" is that only our Father can cast him out.

Your thoughts?

:rolling Why not just let Luke and Matthew answer your question instead of torturing the poor words of Mark. Just read Luke 9:37-42 before Matthew 17:14-21 unless you want to spoil the ending.

I should have turned to the other gospels for they did tell me that the spirit was the devil...so named by Jesus. A lesson learned...I will remember to do that in the future. :yes

The other gospels didn't answer my question about the "deaf and dumb spirit" or at least, I didn't have the eyes to see it until Todd explained. Or why the disciples could only pray and fast when meeting one such as him.

 

[toddm]

Perhaps the spirit was the causer of deafness and dumbness but not actually deaf and dumb itself.

Todd....you got it! That has to be it. This kind of demonic spirit causes souls, not just this one, to be deaf and dumb...unable to understand or teach God's Words.

Thank you very much.

I don't know that it's necessarily a spiritual deaf & dumbness (though not ruling that out nor saying that can't happen), but I think the demon was causing a physical deafness & dumbness in the individual - the demon was actually affecting the physical nature of the human.

 

[whirlwind]

Perhaps the spirit was the causer of deafness and dumbness but not actually deaf and dumb itself.

Todd....you got it! That has to be it. This kind of demonic spirit causes souls, not just this one, to be deaf and dumb...unable to understand or teach God's Words.

Thank you very much.

I don't know that it's necessarily a spiritual deaf & dumbness (though not ruling that out nor saying that can't happen), but I think the demon was causing a physical deafness & dumbness in the individual - the demon was actually affecting the physical nature of the human.

You were given to see the answer Todd. It is the deaf and dumb spirit, the spirit (the devil) that causes souls be be...deaf and dumb. We are told that God and Satan blind some.

• John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
  
  1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

God blinds for a purpose. He protects those not yet ready. Darkness, Satan, also blinds but his purpose isn't to protect anyone.

This was revealed to you by the Spirit and you in turn did what you are to do.....

• Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

 

[Free]

You were given to see the answer Todd. It is the deaf and dumb spirit, the spirit (the devil) that causes souls be be...deaf and dumb. We are told that God and Satan blind some.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.


God blinds for a purpose. He protects those not yet ready. Darkness, Satan, also blinds but his purpose isn't to protect anyone.

This was revealed to you by the Spirit and you in turn did what you are to do.....

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

No. The deaf and dumb spirit was simply a spirit that made the boy deaf and mute. It wasn't Satan and has nothing to do with people being hard of heart and blind to the truth.

 

[whirlwind]

You were given to see the answer Todd. It is the deaf and dumb spirit, the spirit (the devil) that causes souls be be...deaf and dumb. We are told that God and Satan blind some.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.


God blinds for a purpose. He protects those not yet ready. Darkness, Satan, also blinds but his purpose isn't to protect anyone.

This was revealed to you by the Spirit and you in turn did what you are to do.....

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

No. The deaf and dumb spirit was simply a spirit that made the boy deaf and mute. It wasn't Satan and has nothing to do with people being hard of heart and blind to the truth.

Free, His Words, not me, tell us who the spirit was....

• Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
  
  Matthew 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

Then it is up to us to understand if the spirit itself was deaf and dumb or the spirit itself was the spirit that causes that affliction...deaf and dumbness. Todd correctly interpreted that verse.

The devil, or demonic spirit...which is a satanic spirit, is the spirit that caused and causes souls to not see, hear or speak God's truths. The devil is the spirit that causes many to be deaf and dumb to our Father's love and salvation. It is up to us to allow God to work through us to bring those He gives us power to help....to Him. Here we are told there will be times that all we can do is pray and fast. It is God that will or will not cause the evil spirit to depart.

 

[jasoncran]

You were given to see the answer Todd. It is the deaf and dumb spirit, the spirit (the devil) that causes souls be be...deaf and dumb. We are told that God and Satan blind some.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.


God blinds for a purpose. He protects those not yet ready. Darkness, Satan, also blinds but his purpose isn't to protect anyone.

This was revealed to you by the Spirit and you in turn did what you are to do.....

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

No. The deaf and dumb spirit was simply a spirit that made the boy deaf and mute. It wasn't Satan and has nothing to do with people being hard of heart and blind to the truth.

Free, His Words, not me, tell us who the spirit was....

• Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
  
  Matthew 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

Then it is up to us to understand if the spirit itself was deaf and dumb or the spirit itself was the spirit that causes that affliction...deaf and dumbness. Todd correctly interpreted that verse.

The devil, or demonic spirit...which is a satanic spirit, is the spirit that caused and causes souls to not see, hear or speak God's truths. The devil is the spirit that causes many to be deaf and dumb to our Father's love and salvation. It is up to us to allow God to work through us to bring those He gives us power to help....to Him. Here we are told there will be times that all we can do is pray and fast. It is God that will or will not cause the evil spirit to depart.

have you ever cast out a demonic spirit, some of my members of my old church have, have you ever been harresed by demonic forces, i have twice. both times i was able to rebuke them. some demons are more powerful then others. fasting and prayer make one strong enough in faith to use the authority to cast the demon. but he persom who's possesed must want to free and saved , other wise it would be worse on that person.

we can blind ourselves to the truth if we choose to. yes satan can blind some spiritually, and physically, we the questioned verse did state the obviously that the spirit shut the speech and hearing of the child.
sometimes children are possesed others play with the demonic spirits(ouija boards,physics, and so on) and become possesed.

 

[toddm]

Free, His Words, not me, tell us who the spirit was....

• Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
  
  Matthew 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

I agree that the spirit was demonic

Todd correctly interpreted that verse.

Woot! I finally got one right! haha

The devil, or demonic spirit...which is a satanic spirit, is the spirit that caused and causes souls to not see, hear or speak God's truths. The devil is the spirit that causes many to be deaf and dumb to our Father's love and salvation.

I think you may be reading INTO the text a little much here. The other Scriptures you quoted were Satan BLINDING us to truth, nothing ever said about us being mute or deaf to the truth. The passages in John & 1 John that you cited are a spiritual blindness, but I think in this particular passage the demon was simply causing a person to be physically deaf & dumb. Reading a spiritual deafness & dumbness into this particular passage is not necessary and is making more of the passage than is intended by the Gospel writer.

The main points of the "deaf & dumb spirit" passage is to teach that...

1) Demons can inhabit people

2) Upon habitation, a demon CAN cause physical ailments/defects (ie, deafness & dumbness)

3) Some demons are stronger and require more prayer and reliance upon the Holy Spirit

I think that is about the extent of what the passage is trying to teach.

 

[Free]

No. The deaf and dumb spirit was simply a spirit that made the boy deaf and mute. It wasn't Satan and has nothing to do with people being hard of heart and blind to the truth.

Free, His Words, not me, tell us who the spirit was....

• Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
  
  Matthew 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

Then it is up to us to understand if the spirit itself was deaf and dumb or the spirit itself was the spirit that causes that affliction...deaf and dumbness. Todd correctly interpreted that verse.

The devil, or demonic spirit...which is a satanic spirit, is the spirit that caused and causes souls to not see, hear or speak God's truths. The devil is the spirit that causes many to be deaf and dumb to our Father's love and salvation. It is up to us to allow God to work through us to bring those He gives us power to help....to Him. Here we are told there will be times that all we can do is pray and fast. It is God that will or will not cause the evil spirit to depart.

Before going off and making verses say something they are not saying, please make sure you know what "His words" really are. I am quite certain that "the devil" is not the correct rendering and rather that it should be "demon" or "unclean spirit" or something of that sort. That would be quite the boy to have the devil himself possessing him for his entire life up to that point, as though the devil had nothing better to do.

 

[ManofGod]

Can anybody tell me how the spirit got there?