A message to atheists

[JoJo]

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

 

[VenomFangX]

I think that most would come here under proposition number one, because there are nice people here to talk to. There are enough atheistic forums out there to function in if they wish. But yeah you get wackos who are atheists just as you get dysfuntional Christians who go out of their way to irritate and annoy others. I think atheists have more to do with creationists than Christians; those who lie and mis represent to get their point of view across. Most of us who hold treasured beliefs and faith in God are always left alone in my experience.
yours
ÒõýþüäðýóÖ

 

[JoJo]

Most of us who hold treasured beliefs and faith in God are always left alone in my experience.

I guess I've had the opposite experience.

 

[VenomFangX]

 

[wavy]

I don't mean to come across as snobbish or anything, but all you basically just said is that people who won't be convinced won't be convinced...which is really needless to say...

Finis,
Eric

 

[JoJo]

I don't mean to come across as snobbish or anything, but all you basically just said is that people who won't be convinced won't be convinced...which is really needless to say...

You'd think, huh? But if the category 2 atheists understand this simple principle (so simple that it would seem needless to mention), then why do they keep trying? Why do they go out of their way to join Christian online communities such as ours and purposely set out to try and convince the unconvinceable?

 

[Lance_Iguana]

I don't mean to come across as snobbish or anything, but all you basically just said is that people who won't be convinced won't be convinced...which is really needless to say...

You'd think, huh? But if the category 2 atheists understand this simple principle (so simple that it would seem needless to mention), then why do they keep trying? Why do they go out of their way to join Christian online communities such as ours and purposely set out to try and convince the unconvinceable?

Most of your catagory 2 atheists are younger people, who either just became Atheists and have somethign to prove or are those that have had very bad experiances with the religion and are retaliating at anyone who they see conected to it.

Then you have to look at the pollitical spectrum as well. Christains have a very strong hold on morality and politics in this country. The Fundamentalist Christian right is a good example of who these people opose. mainly due to creationism/ old earth being forced into areas of science.

They feel threatened and oppressed, so they attack any target they think they might be able to take down. Its the same as young Christains that come to some other boards I frequent and try to change the views of that board.

 

[jasoncran]

should i go to a leftie or aethist site to pick arguments? not wise, it different if the lord leads me to speak the truth, and do so and stay quiet. do i argue,yes, been guilty. some know that on recent subjects i've held back, as the person wont recieve it and i wont beat them into kingdom anyway. only jesus can change them anyway ,not a good debate.

jason

 

[Sound Silence]

Technically one could say your own message is an equal waste of time, but oh well.

 

[JoJo]

You may be more right than you think.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Brings back some recent memories from the Richard Dawkins forums I visited recently for about 6 weeks. My main goal was to learn all I could regarding Atheism and the folks that tend to be the mosr passionate about Atheism.

Since I started my pursuit of either believing or not (in other words, I made a decision that I had to decide either way) I have been fascinated with all things about faith, God, religion, atheism, etc. Visiting the RD forums was part of this facination. What I found is that the very things most atheists criticize theists for they are willing to accept themselves but on the opposite side of the coin. In other words, they put all of their "faith" in science while Christians put their faith in God and Christ.

Now, when pressed on this most atheists would deny it and claim that faith has no place in science. Personally, I disagree. At the end of the day they believe that science can explain all things. They truly believe this and have faith that it is true.

I also read Richard Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and came way feeling he is more deluded than the people he criticizes. The book was written for the faithful Atheists and does a very poor job of trying to sway the opinions of theists.

Might be a little off topic but I thought I would share.

 

[JoJo]

My brother-in-law, an atheist, has that book by his bedside. Pray for his salvation!

 

[jasoncran]

Brings back some recent memories from the Richard Dawkins forums I visited recently for about 6 weeks. My main goal was to learn all I could regarding Atheism and the folks that tend to be the mosr passionate about Atheism.

Since I started my pursuit of either believing or not (in other words, I made a decision that I had to decide either way) I have been fascinated with all things about faith, God, religion, atheism, etc. Visiting the RD forums was part of this facination. What I found is that the very things most atheists criticize theists for they are willing to accept themselves but on the opposite side of the coin. In other words, they put all of their "faith" in science while Christians put their faith in God and Christ.

Now, when pressed on this most atheists would deny it and claim that faith has no place in science. Personally, I disagree. At the end of the day they believe that science can explain all things. They truly believe this and have faith that it is true.

I also read Richard Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and came way feeling he is more deluded than the people he criticizes. The book was written for the faithful Atheists and does a very poor job of trying to sway the opinions of theists.

Might be a little off topic but I thought I would share.

shoot dont have to look that far.. we have some on this forum like that..

 

[Sound Silence]

You need faith simply to live day to day believing that the world has any constants whatsoever.

How do we know the world isn't a "Matrix" type deal?
How do we know we weren't created 5 seconds ago with false memories of a past that doesn't exist?
How do we know the world won't suddenly end tomorrow (and not for religions reasons, either, I mean something like the Large Hadron Collider making a black hole and killing everything. Remember when that was all the rage?)

So no one can really get by without some kind of faith.

 

[AskTheA]

Those matrix type problems fall under a category of a Descartes style skepticism. The average atheist does not really call that sort of thing faith. Here's why. Though the world may be a simulation or whatever, every time I step on the ground, it holds me up. The world appears real and testable to me. Also, those around me are also in consensus with me. When I say "here is a wall", everyone I've ever met agrees with me. Religious faith is different in the sense that it's not as testable to the individual (from a non religious standpoint). If I shout out something like "Yahweh, come down and chat with me" and He did do indeed that, then I would be as sure of Yahweh as I am that my house has four walls ,but since I just tried that and it didn't work, or I can't demonstrate it to other people, Yahweh requires more faith than the walls. So here we go
Universe is real/I am real - that' one point of faith
For yahweh to be real (real to me), the universe and I have to be real as well - two points of faith. So when us atheists talk about faith, we mean something slightly different than what you are proposing.

 

[Logical]

I don't know that I completely agree with the OP.

I don't really see any of us being insecure in our non-belief. But isn't this country built upon the idea of questioning?

I think that there is a blurred area between the two, where Atheists are questioning religion, to religious people. They are trying to see things from their side of the argument. If a bunch of Atheists get together on an atheist board and talk about atheism, then where's the dialogue?

The problem that I have is that in this world anyone can seemingly question anything but religion. If someone is purely secure in their theistic beliefs, then they should have no problem answering the most simple of logical questions. I just dislike it when really simple and often times innocent questions are answered with such anger and accusations of bigotry.

 

[JoJo]

What part of the OP do you not agree with, might I ask?

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I don't know that I completely agree with the OP.

I don't really see any of us being insecure in our non-belief. But isn't this country built upon the idea of questioning?

I think that there is a blurred area between the two, where Atheists are questioning religion, to religious people. They are trying to see things from their side of the argument. If a bunch of Atheists get together on an atheist board and talk about atheism, then where's the dialogue?

The problem that I have is that in this world anyone can seemingly question anything but religion. If someone is purely secure in their theistic beliefs, then they should have no problem answering the most simple of logical questions. I just dislike it when really simple and often times innocent questions are answered with such anger and accusations of bigotry.

I don't believe atheists are questioning religion...they are condemning it. If you are a true atheist the time for questioning has past and you have moved on to condemnation.

 

[AskTheA]

There's no such thing as a true atheist. It's not a club you can join.
Many atheists condemn religion, many question it, and many love it. The only rule for atheism is to agree with this statement "I lack a beleif in a supernatural god".

 

[kenmaynard]

There's no such thing as a true atheist. It's not a club you can join.
Many atheists condemn religion, many question it, and many love it. The only rule for atheism is to agree with this statement "I lack a beleif in a supernatural god".

I think that is not an accurate statement. The nature of belief, as with all aspects of life, has become much more refined and nuanced. The the statement that I simply lack belie, has much more come to be associated with what the masses would call an agnostic. While atheist would be someone who claims a more absolute knowledge that there is indeed, in fact, no God.

Also, there are atheist clubs, as I have been to a meeting. The only, thing I wanted to know was what the purpose of the club was. I asked why, If you are an atheist club, are you only talking about the Christian God? Why not complain endlessly about Santa or Allah, or any other meaningless figment of the human imagination?

Are we alone? Are we the most intelligent, advanced living things in the universe? I would say logic says no while the atheist says yes. I think the atheist is wrong.