A message to atheists

[ChattyMute]

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

3. Boredom.

To 1. As a previous Christian, I know quite a bit about Christianity. I have a lot more to go, but if I had a question, I'd probably go to someone I know in real life.

To 2. I've seen quite a few atheists/agnostics/non-Christians come to boards for this. But it is usually for amusement rather than to convert. No one is going to be converting anyone over the internet.

So that leaves number 3 for me. ^^ I get bored.

Are we alone? Are we the most intelligent, advanced living things in the universe? I would say logic says no while the atheist says yes. I think the atheist is wrong.

I have NEVER met an atheist or agnostic who says this. I'm sure there are some who say this, but how do you get that all atheist think that way?
Explain, please.

I don't believe atheists are questioning religion...they are condemning it. If you are a true atheist the time for questioning has past and you have moved on to condemnation.

Well as an atheist, I'm pretty sure I don't condemn religion. I do know some people who do, but not all. I don't have a problem with religion itself, just some of the people in religion.
And as mentioned before, there is no such thing as a true atheist.

 

[JoJo]

I don't buy the reason of boredom at all. Most people don't register with forums that don't interest them. There are underlying reasons (even if just to antagonize) that have nothing to do with a need to make better use of their time.

 

[ChattyMute]

I don't buy the reason of boredom at all. Most people don't register with forums that don't interest them. There are underlying reasons (even if just to antagonize) that have nothing to do with a need to make better use of their time.

You don't have to buy it, but it's the truth for me. I still register with forums that I think will give me some sort of amusement to take away the boredom, but it is out of boredom.
If you get bored and then decide you want to antagonize, the cause for your wanting to antagonize is still boredom.

 

[jasoncran]

no, if you did that in person(not single anyone out), punches would follow have i been a little antogonistic ,yes, but i try to avoid it, in person nothing is gained by arguing , debating is on thing it has a purpose.

 

[JoJo]

Jason, you are one of the most UN-antagonistic people I've met here! ;)

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, you are one of the most UN-antagonistic people I've met here! ;)

thanks, but in person , sometimes to pick an argument or discussion i have been more forward, when its get too ugly i back away

recently i mentioned the overturning of the gay marriage law in maine to a former new yorker, just to see where he stood, i have been working with him for a little bit, and the temptation to be bitter or hostile is always there, if yall only knew the thoughts or responses i must contain, as i think that if he said that to anyone in person... punches would be thrown.

that's why i respond the way i do here, btw the person i mentioned earlier is pro-gay rights i mentioned the counter argument(no one in the guard save few know of my former ways). he actually supported the concept of two consenting adults doing anything(ie incest if there was no kids from the act! or the idea of polygamy and so on, but no yelling was done).

i do have a leftie fellow soldier who i will sick for the point of seeing why he believes the way does and for fun to poke a hole in his world.

i have brought some of his thoughts on my threads(mainly one) is obama anti-isreal, that why i posted that one.

jason

 

[harry1]

does anyone here know the definition of Atheists?

 

[JoJo]

Those who don't believe in a god or God.

 

[ChattyMute]

does anyone here know the definition of Atheists?

I don't know the definition of Atheists, but I know the definition of atheists.
:biglol
*cough* Sorry. Just had to point out that atheist is not capitalized. It's not a religion or a specific movement in and of itself. It's a term to describe.

And a lack of belief in gods or God.

 

[harry1]

I cant find it but I was reading a book which breaks down atheism and what the belief system is but here is what i found



Implicit atheism and explicit atheism are subcategories of atheism coined by George H. Smith (1979, p.13-18). Implicit atheism is defined by Smith as "the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it" (i.e., those who have not thought about the existence of deities, let alone decided against it, are de facto atheists). Explicit atheism is defined as "the absence of theistic belief due to a conscious rejection of it" (those who have thought about the existence of deities and have concluded they do not believe any exist), which, according to Smith, is sometimes characterized as antitheism.[1]
Contents [hide]
1 Critical atheism
2 Other typologies of atheism
3 See also
4 References
[edit]Critical atheism

For Smith, explicit atheism is subdivided further according to whether or not the rejection is made on rational grounds. The term critical atheism is used to label the view that belief in God is irrational, and is itself subdivided into:
a) the view usually expressed by the statement "I do not believe in the existence of a god or supernatural being";
b) the view usually expressed by the statement "God does not exist" or "the existence of God is impossible"; and
c) the view which "refuses to discuss the existence or nonexistence of a god" because "the concept of a god is unintelligible" (p.17

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Jason, you are one of the most UN-antagonistic people I've met here! ;)

thanks, but in person , sometimes to pick an argument or discussion i have been more forward, when its get too ugly i back away

recently i mentioned the overturning of the gay marriage law in maine to a former new yorker, just to see where he stood, i have been working with him for a little bit, and the temptation to be bitter or hostile is always there, if yall only knew the thoughts or responses i must contain, as i think that if he said that to anyone in person... punches would be thrown.

that's why i respond the way i do here, btw the person i mentioned earlier is pro-gay rights i mentioned the counter argument(no one in the guard save few know of my former ways). he actually supported the concept of two consenting adults doing anything(ie incest if there was no kids from the act! or the idea of polygamy and so on, but no yelling was done).

i do have a leftie fellow soldier who i will sick for the point of seeing why he believes the way does and for fun to poke a hole in his world.



jason

So you are a complete arse to people, in real life. You bring up sensitive issues and losses for your own amusement then?

You are the equivalent of someone who makes fun of a person about thier grandma or mother dieing. I don't think I can see you in the same light ever again Jason.

 

[jasoncran]

i wouldnt do that, and one i failed to mentioned that that same soldier also will also do the same to us on the right so i usually return the favor. No i never enjoy the fact the some losses a loved one,

now i regret that post, but i wanted to show that i have done that. (been antagonistic).2

when i got into the discussion with him it was usually asked of me or i asked him when i overheard him, though some times i did poke holes. some people do that to just be spiteful and i never went to the extreme on that but i was a little overboard or zealous, and there are zealous idiots at times on both sides.

i recall an obama supporter in my unit who was pro gay rights and all thing left and would feel the need to convince those who disagreed with him. i watched others to ensure that they wouldnt punch or fit him as that would be wrong and i would to punish the first person who through the punch, as they were soldiers subbordinate to me.

you totally misunderstand me on that. lance.
i hope that i can correct that. good Lord now i'm gonna feel like crap for days, just like i did when you said that you were gonna leave permanately.

 

[TheOddGoat]

I don't mean to come across as snobbish or anything, but all you basically just said is that people who won't be convinced won't be convinced...which is really needless to say...

You'd think, huh? But if the category 2 atheists understand this simple principle (so simple that it would seem needless to mention), then why do they keep trying? Why do they go out of their way to join Christian online communities such as ours and purposely set out to try and convince the unconvinceable?

Because it is the moral thing to do.

 

[Brent Branaman]

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

I'm new here. Good discussion that I have found.

It seems like those who can't be shaken are those who refuse to listen to the views of atheists or skeptics of Christianity.

Do Christians keep themselves (either consciously or subconsciously) from seriously pondering opposing views because they don't want to have feelings of doubt or skepticism? Do they want to be "strong in their faith" and questioning their beliefs is viewed as a weakness?

 

[jasoncran]

no, i dont see it that way. some agnostic/aethist dont want to change and only fight or cause trouble. while others are curious and are simply inquiring. there are some boneheads on bothsides of the debates.

 

[JoJo]

I'm new here. Good discussion that I have found.

It seems like those who can't be shaken are those who refuse to listen to the views of atheists or skeptics of Christianity.

Do Christians keep themselves (either consciously or subconsciously) from seriously pondering opposing views because they don't want to have feelings of doubt or skepticism? Do they want to be "strong in their faith" and questioning their beliefs is viewed as a weakness?

You're right: we can't be shaken. But it is more than just refusing to give credence to doubt and skepticism. Our faith is strong, not because we "want to be" strong in our faith. It is strong because God has strengthened it, often through trial and triumph. I can't speak for everyone, but when I first became a Christian at a young age, I didn't have a clue what faith meant. I didn't go into it with a sense of "wanting to be strong in my faith." That just happens as we continue in our walk with Christ. And, as Psalm 16:8 says, "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved."

 

[Brent Branaman]

I'm new here. Good discussion that I have found.

It seems like those who can't be shaken are those who refuse to listen to the views of atheists or skeptics of Christianity.

Do Christians keep themselves (either consciously or subconsciously) from seriously pondering opposing views because they don't want to have feelings of doubt or skepticism? Do they want to be "strong in their faith" and questioning their beliefs is viewed as a weakness?

You're right: we can't be shaken. But it is more than just refusing to give credence to doubt and skepticism. Our faith is strong, not because we "want to be" strong in our faith. It is strong because God has strengthened it, often through trial and triumph. I can't speak for everyone, but when I first became a Christian at a young age, I didn't have a clue what faith meant. I didn't go into it with a sense of "wanting to be strong in my faith." That just happens as we continue in our walk with Christ. And, as Psalm 16:8 says, "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved."

But wouldn't your Holy Spirit keep newer or weaker Christians from being swayed by the arguments of atheists?

IMO, "strong Christians" are simply those who are too invested in their religion to want to look for truths other than the ones to which they already adhere. They meet together on Sundays in order to feed off of one another and feel good about themselves. I don't question the sincerity of Christians. I don't believe that Christians truly think that their beliefs are totally founded. I don't doubt that Christians have experiences that they translate as connections with something supernatural. I just believe the conclusions and suppositions of Christians are wrong.

 

[JoJo]

But wouldn't your Holy Spirit keep newer or weaker Christians from being swayed by the arguments of atheists?

IMO, "strong Christians" are simply those who are too invested in their religion to want to look for truths other than the ones to which they already adhere. They meet together on Sundays in order to feed off of one another and feel good about themselves. I don't question the sincerity of Christians. I don't believe that Christians truly think that their beliefs are totally founded. I don't doubt that Christians have experiences that they translate as connections with something supernatural. I just believe the conclusions and suppositions of Christians are wrong.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

Just plain wrong.
Most Atheists would never want to convert anybody. However, we do wish people would practice critical thinking.
But again, the point is that feel free to believe in anything you like as long as you don't start shoving your belief down on my throat.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

There's no such thing as a true atheist. It's not a club you can join.
Many atheists condemn religion, many question it, and many love it. The only rule for atheism is to agree with this statement "I lack a beleif in a supernatural god".

1. I think that is not an accurate statement. The nature of belief, as with all aspects of life, has become much more refined and nuanced. The the statement that I simply lack belie, has much more come to be associated with what the masses would call an agnostic. While atheist would be someone who claims a more absolute knowledge that there is indeed, in fact, no God.

2. Also, there are atheist clubs, as I have been to a meeting. The only, thing I wanted to know was what the purpose of the club was. I asked why, If you are an atheist club, are you only talking about the Christian God? Why not complain endlessly about Santa or Allah, or any other meaningless figment of the human imagination?

3. Are we alone? Are we the most intelligent, advanced living things in the universe? I would say logic says no while the atheist says yes. I think the atheist is wrong.

1. Your interpretation is not accurate. Agnostic is the person who doesn't know whether there is a god. Atheist is a person who does not believe in a supernatural power.

2. You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

3. You are putting words to someone's mouth. That's not a smart idea in a debate. If logic says yes and there's no need to fill the gaps with supernatural explanations, that's what Atheists say.