A message to atheists

[JoJo]

1. Your interpretation is not accurate. Agnostic is the person who doesn't know whether there is a god. Atheist is a person who does not believe in a supernatural power.

Believe me, I've known plenty of atheists and agnostics. Have some close to me. And Merriam-Webster's uses the word "deity" instead of the more limited "supernatural power."

2. You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

Huh? I never said that about either.

3. You are putting words to someone's mouth. That's not a smart idea in a debate. If logic says yes and there's no need to fill the gaps with supernatural explanations, that's what Atheists say.

This thread wasn't intended to be a debate. It was intended as the title indicated: a message to atheists. My thoughts in the OP stand.

Let me ask you (if you are atheist): Why did you come to this forum?

 

[JoJo]

Just plain wrong.
Most Atheists would never want to convert anybody. However, we do wish people would practice critical thinking.
But again, the point is that feel free to believe in anything you like as long as you don't start shoving your belief down on my throat.

I won't argue with your point that most atheists would never want to convert anybody. I never said they did. I said, "it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities." Please do not misinterpret my wording.

Your last sentence is irrelevant and off-topic to this discussion UNLESS you are talking about atheists who try to shove their beliefs down Christians throats on a Christian forum.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

1. Your interpretation is not accurate. Agnostic is the person who doesn't know whether there is a god. Atheist is a person who does not believe in a supernatural power.

Believe me, I've known plenty of atheists and agnostics. Have some close to me. And Merriam-Webster's uses the word "deity" instead of the more limited "supernatural power."

2. You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

Huh? I never said that about either.

3. You are putting words to someone's mouth. That's not a smart idea in a debate. If logic says yes and there's no need to fill the gaps with supernatural explanations, that's what Atheists say.

This thread wasn't intended to be a debate. It was intended as the title indicated: a message to atheists. My thoughts in the OP stand.

Let me ask you (if you are atheist): Why did you come to this forum?

I'm glad that you've known Atheists. I'm also glad that you can google Merriam-Webster's but it still didn't help you to understand the difference between Agnostic and Atheist.

You did say that. Hence the quotation mark. Just scroll back and look at your previous post.

I realize that the last thing Christians want is a debate. I was just commenting on your post.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

1. Your interpretation is not accurate. Agnostic is the person who doesn't know whether there is a god. Atheist is a person who does not believe in a supernatural power.

Believe me, I've known plenty of atheists and agnostics. Have some close to me. And Merriam-Webster's uses the word "deity" instead of the more limited "supernatural power."

2. You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

Huh? I never said that about either.

3. You are putting words to someone's mouth. That's not a smart idea in a debate. If logic says yes and there's no need to fill the gaps with supernatural explanations, that's what Atheists say.

This thread wasn't intended to be a debate. It was intended as the title indicated: a message to atheists. My thoughts in the OP stand.

Let me ask you (if you are atheist): Why did you come to this forum?

There you go.
First you make a statement and then ask a question which is already irrelevant.
Why did I come here? Because I go wherever I feel going to. I am not tied down to one web site.
Is there something going on here that you don't want me to see?

 

[rEVOLVEr]

Just plain wrong.
Most Atheists would never want to convert anybody. However, we do wish people would practice critical thinking.
But again, the point is that feel free to believe in anything you like as long as you don't start shoving your belief down on my throat.

I won't argue with your point that most atheists would never want to convert anybody. I never said they did. I said, "it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities." Please do not misinterpret my wording.

Your last sentence is irrelevant and off-topic to this discussion UNLESS you are talking about atheists who try to shove their beliefs down Christians throats on a Christian forum.

I was not misrepresenting your words. You did that to yourself by stopping the quote before the important part. ;)

 

[JoJo]

I'm glad that you've known Atheists. I'm also glad that you can google Merriam-Webster's but it still didn't help you to understand the difference between Agnostic and Atheist.

Why are we talking about agnostics again? This thread was about atheists.

You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

Huh? I never said that about either.

You did say that. Hence the quotation mark. Just scroll back and look at your previous post.

No, I did not say that. kenmaynard said that. I have no idea why you thought I said that. I don't use phraseology like that and would remember if I did. Here, look for yourself:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=41577&p=506835&hilit=+meaningless+figment+#p506835

I realize that the last thing Christians want is a debate.

Seriously? Have you not read any of the threads in this forum?

First you make a statement and then ask a question which is already irrelevant.

My question was, "Let me ask you (if you are atheist): Why did you come to this forum?" which is complete relevant considering the OP is about the reasons atheists join Christian forums. I did not ask it rhetorically. What drew you to a Christian forum?

I was not misrepresenting your words. You did that to yourself by stopping the quote before the important part. ;)

I stopped the quote at the end of the paragraph. But here is the entire quote. Please copy/paste this and underline the part where I said anything about "most atheists" wanting to convert anybody. I used the word, "generally" for a reason: it leaves a margin for those who don't fit in either category.

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

rEVOLVEr wrote: You called Santa an Allah a "meaningless figment of the human imagination". Welcome to the Atheist club. ;)

JoJo wrote:Huh? I never said that about either.



You did say that. Hence the quotation mark. Just scroll back and look at your previous post.



No, I did not say that. kenmaynard said that. I have no idea why you thought I said that. I don't use phraseology like that and would remember if I did. Here, look for yourself:

Indeed, kenmaynard said that. My apologies.

 

[JoJo]

 

[rEVOLVEr]

I realize that the last thing Christians want is a debate.

Seriously? Have you not read any of the threads in this forum?

I have read some of the threads. Of course, not all. But I'm not new in debating, so I'm very well aware of the different tactics by theists. ;)

My question was, "Let me ask you (if you are atheist): Why did you come to this forum?" which is complete relevant considering the OP is about the reasons atheists join Christian forums. I did not ask it rhetorically. What drew you to a Christian forum?

If you were honestly interested in the answer you wouldn't have opened the thread with that statement. You are clearly saying that those Atheists who are here to become Christians can stay but others are not welcomed.

I was not misrepresenting your words. You did that to yourself by stopping the quote before the important part. ;)

I stopped the quote at the end of the paragraph. But here is the entire quote. Please copy/paste this and underline the part where I said anything about "most atheists" wanting to convert anybody. I used the word, "generally" for a reason: it leaves a margin for those who don't fit in either category.

Interestingly, what you call "margin" happens to be the majority of Atheists because most Atheists don't fit in those two categories that you came up with.

 

[JoJo]

You are clearly saying that those Atheists who are here to become Christians can stay but others are not welcomed.

I'm not clearly saying any such thing. Who am I to say who is or isn't welcome? I am clearly saying what I already said:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

The point of my post is in bold.

Interestingly, what you call "margin" happens to be the majority of Atheists because most Atheists don't fit in those two categories that you came up with.

I'll bet you can't prove that anymore than you can prove that God doesn't exist.

For the record, I never asserted that my categories were based on actual numbers. I was very careful to include "it has been my experience" in my opening sentence. And it has, and it continues to be.

However, I'm thinking about including a 3rd category: because they are bored and it is just something to do to pass the time.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

You are clearly saying that those Atheists who are here to become Christians can stay but others are not welcomed.

I'm not clearly saying any such thing. Who am I to say who is or isn't welcome? I am clearly saying what I already said:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

The point of my post is in bold.

I won't bother talking about this because I belong to neither of your "majority" groups.

Interestingly, what you call "margin" happens to be the majority of Atheists because most Atheists don't fit in those two categories that you came up with.

I'll bet you can't prove that anymore than you can prove that God doesn't exist.

For the record, I never asserted that my categories were based on actual numbers. I was very careful to include "it has been my experience" in my opening sentence. And it has, and it continues to be.

However, I'm thinking about including a 3rd category: because they are bored and it is just something to do to pass the time.

You said "majority". How do you explain that word? (I'm just asking... I give you lots of room to move. )
If you never asserted that your categories were based on actual numbers, what did you base them on? Faith?

I wouldn't fit in your third category either. I have a busy life so I can only spare so much time for this web site.

 

[JoJo]

You said "majority". How do you explain that word? (I'm just asking... I give you lots of room to move.

Where did I say "majority?" You were the only one who used the word "majority." (Believe me I did a search)

If you never asserted that your categories were based on actual numbers, what did you base them on? Faith?

On my experience, as I already mentioned in the OP and my last post.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

Personal experience is probably the weakest proof of anything. If your statement is based on that, you need to back it up with something other than "take my words for it".

 

[JoJo]

Why? I wrote a letter not a report.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

Why? I wrote a letter not a report.

If it's a letter, you've got the wrong address on it. ;)

 

[JoJo]

It's an open letter to atheists who come to this forum, particularly those with an agenda. I did not send it directly to you and no one is forcing you to read the message or accept its contents. If you have an agenda and the letter touches a sore spot, then perhaps it is more applicable than you care to admit.

 

[rEVOLVEr]

It's an open letter to atheists who come to this forum, particularly those with an agenda. I did not send it directly to you and no one is forcing you to read the message or accept its contents. If you have an agenda and the letter touches a sore spot, then perhaps it is more applicable than you care to admit.

LOL No sore spots here.
What kind of agenda do you think I have?

 

[Aero_Hudson]

It's an open letter to atheists who come to this forum, particularly those with an agenda. I did not send it directly to you and no one is forcing you to read the message or accept its contents. If you have an agenda and the letter touches a sore spot, then perhaps it is more applicable than you care to admit.

LOL No sore spots here.
What kind of agenda do you think I have?

I guess I would look to you to answer that question. Why are you here?

 

[rEVOLVEr]

It's an open letter to atheists who come to this forum, particularly those with an agenda. I did not send it directly to you and no one is forcing you to read the message or accept its contents. If you have an agenda and the letter touches a sore spot, then perhaps it is more applicable than you care to admit.

LOL No sore spots here.
What kind of agenda do you think I have?

I guess I would look to you to answer that question. Why are you here?

Am I not welcomed here?

 

[JoJo]

rEVOLVEr, I didn't say you had an agenda or ask if you did. I said, "if you have an agenda..."

Am I not welcomed here?

I would say anyone is welcome until they violate TOS. But no one has indicated that you aren't welcome.