A new creation...

[jeff77]

Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (KJV)

I have been studying this verse with a friend and we are trying to decide if one becomes a new creation instantly or if it takes time. I think that when we are saved not everything about our old creature's desires are changed in an instant. It requires practicing ones faith to become the new creature. The more we do the will of the Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

 

[chessman]

The more we do the will of the Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

The more we do the will of OUR Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

Galatians 4:6-7 And because you are sons, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!,” so that you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, also an heir through God. ​

 

[Willie T]

So you guys equate the "new creature" the Bible speaks of as a "new personality"? I taught Behavior Modification classes for 24 years, and achieved that end several thousand times.

 

[chessman]

I taught Behavior Modification classes for 24 years, and achieved that end several thousand times.

And to think, we just modified your behavior using two simple posts.

 

[agua.]

Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (KJV)

I have been studying this verse with a friend and we are trying to decide if one becomes a new creation instantly or if it takes time. I think that when we are saved not everything about our old creature's desires are changed in an instant. It requires practicing ones faith to become the new creature. The more we do the will of the Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

2Co 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We become a new creature the moment we accept Jesus. ie. we become a son of Yahweh. Yahweh then begins to conform us into the Image of the First Son; Jesus.

 

[jeff77]

2Co 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We become a new creature the moment we accept Jesus. ie. we become a son of Yahweh. Yahweh then begins to conform us into the Image of the First Son; Jesus.

Yes, we become a new creature the moment we accept Christ, but for some the old sinful desires take time to change right?

 

[jeff77]

So you guys equate the "new creature" the Bible speaks of as a "new personality"? I taught Behavior Modification classes for 24 years, and achieved that end several thousand times.

I guess a new personality could be a part of it. The behavior mod class you taught, what did it involve?

 

[jeff77]

The more we do the will of OUR Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

Galatians 4:6-7 And because you are sons, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!,” so that you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, also an heir through God. ​

Did you put OUR instead of THE to describe the Holy Spirit? I like your post

 

[ezrider]

Yes, we become a new creature the moment we accept Christ, but for some the old sinful desires take time to change right?

If a seed fall to the ground, when it germinates and sprouts forth anew, does it become a mighty tree overnight?

 

[chessman]

Did you put OUR instead of THE to describe the Holy Spirit? I like your post

Yes. Absolutely, that was my point. We become His sons and He is OUR father when we are made a new creation. How?

Romans 5:5 , because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. ​

I mean think that thru for a minute. One minute you're a creature without the Holy Spirit poured out in your heart (merely tugging), the next minute He's poured out into our hearts. (I believe permanently). Why? Because the Love of God did this! OUR Father which art in Heaven just got His will done on Earth, The 3rd person of OUR triune God taking up residence in little ole me (contrary to the accusation made against me last night in another thread). But wow! That's a new creation.

Romans 8:31 What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
​

Indeed!

Use a Bible search engine and search for "in Christ" and "in Him" and read thru the results.

 

[Willie T]

I guess a new personality could be a part of it. The behavior mod class you taught, what did it involve?

That was my point. It was a court mandated class for felons and ex-felons, so there weren't too many Christians, and we were not allowed to push any "religious" agendas. Yet, in effect, over time most of the clients developed into people (creatures?) different than they had been... and no involvement with the influence of the Holy Spirit was encountered.

Thus, I was saying that just becoming a new person, so to speak, can be seen in all sorts of restructuring programs, all over the world. Even Martial Arts does this to a great extent. But a "New Creature" in Christ must be something different. It can be observed in so many Christians who are, basically, still the same people they were years earlier when they accepted Christ. Yet, the Bible says we are all now "New Creatures".

 

[agua.]

Yes, we become a new creature the moment we accept Christ, but for some the old sinful desires take time to change right?

Yes. I'd say for all not some though.

 

[jeff77]

Thanks for the reply's! It's been very helpful.

 

[Butch5]

The more we do the will of OUR Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

Galatians 4:6-7 And because you are sons, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!,” so that you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, also an heir through God. ​

I believe you have it correct Jeff. If you look back at verse 15 Paul indicates that it is the believer that is doing the action. In verse 17 the verbs are in the active voice which indicates that the action is being performed by the subject. If this was something that happened to the believer I would expect to find the verbs in the passive voice.

14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (2Co 5:14-17 NKJ)

 

[chessman]

If you look back at verse 15 Paul indicates that it is the believer that is doing the action. I

Is the new born believer doing the action as a new-slave would do in accord with his new-Master's will (which just so happens to be his Father and Spiritual guide) or is the 'new-believer' doing the action in accordance with his old-master (sin) or in accord with his independent free-will alone? It's a fine line, but a line none-the-less.

 

[Butch5]

Is the new born believer doing the action as a new-slave would do in accord with his new-Master's will (which just so happens to be his Father and Spiritual guide) or is the 'new-believer' doing the action in accordance with his old-master (sin) or in accord with his independent free-will alone? It's a fine line, but a line none-the-less.

I'm not sure I really understand what your asking but here is how I understand it. I don't look at this as a new born believer as I believe the phrase "born again" was a reference to Jews. I see the new believer as being lead by the Holy Spirit in a path of growing in the ways of God (Jesus' teachings). However, I believe Paul is indicating that it is up to the believer to do this. I don't thing the text supports the idea that something has passively happened to the believer, such as God has cause a change in this person.

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 8:10
Laws into mind (not just stone)
Write into hearts (not heart of stone)

The New Man has two parts at least.
Romans 7:25
Covers mind that gives credit to God
Ezekiel 2:1-2
We hear the instructions to do, but know that it is Ruach that does the work
And regretfully
Covers the forgiveness of the flesh, and the total change that will happen at the last trump (resurrection).

Are we changed? Yes. Is the flesh part being finished? Yes. Does it appear that the renewed mind is ahead of the fleshly heart (and this flesh heart is softer than a stony heart). Yes.

We can not mush all the parts together and declare we are without any sin.

We can depend on Holy Spirit to enter in and do what he tells us to do.

eddif

 

[follower]

I'm not sure I really understand what your asking but here is how I understand it. I don't look at this as a new born believer as I believe the phrase "born again" was a reference to Jews. I see the new believer as being lead by the Holy Spirit in a path of growing in the ways of God (Jesus' teachings). However, I believe Paul is indicating that it is up to the believer to do this. I don't thing the text supports the idea that something has passively happened to the believer, such as God has cause a change in this person.

oh, it's far far far from passive ! when Yhwh Wills, and a new spirit is born, it is altogether new and fresh and free of sin and free of the desire to sin. (re 1,2 John 1,2,3 Peter etc etc )
truly and accurately and righteously (by Yhwh's Will) a new creation !

 

[Eugene]

Dear Brother jeff77, the following are my ideas on our place in Christ the moment we believe.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be. The moment we believe, we have the new nature of Christ in us, we have eternal life, and the Holy Spirit’s work of sanctifying our whole spirit, and soul, and body to be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ according to 1 Thes 5:23.

This work of God continues to bring us in growth from the good, to the acceptable, and finally to the perfect will of God of Rom 12.2 as He changes us from children, to young men, and then fathers we read of in I Jn 2:13. Being conformed into the image of Christ is an ongoing process. Rom 8:29.

 

[Butch5]

oh, it's far far far from passive ! when Yhwh Wills, and a new spirit is born, it is altogether new and fresh and free of sin and free of the desire to sin. (re 1,2 John 1,2,3 Peter etc etc )
truly and accurately and righteously (by Yhwh's Will) a new creation !

I think you missed my point. The grammar of the text indicates that it is the believer who is doing the action, not God.

What exactly do you mean by "when Yhwh Wills, and a new spirit is born"?