A new creation...

[jonahmano]

I think the words "will power" have become like bad words to some people in the Christian community and secular. I think it should be stressed that the will power is God's and not our own though.

It's as simple as when God says I have kept before you Life and Death. Choose life and it's His advice but the choice is ours

 

[Butch5]

Have you looked into this verse's translation anymore? You asked how I came to my conclusion. Here's how. It's a very interesting verse from a translation stand point. It's what caught my attention to your original comment about the verb tenses in this verse. As I understand it, there are no verbs or adverbs in the original text "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation". Creation is a noun, not a verb.

They are added for the sake of correct grammar, I suppose.

If anyone in Christ, new creation!

Is the literal translation of the first part. No verbs at all.

By inserting adverbs, pronouns (someone had to choose the tense/mode) it makes a grammatically correct sentence, but does it overshadow a profound point Paul was intentionally making???? A big fat firm, maybe in my view. That is why I mentioned the nouns in the verse. All the nouns are: Christ and Creation. Thus if there is action taking place (a verb) it's the person of Christ that's doing the action to the thing (creation) which is modified by the adjective (new), as I understand it. Am I wrong?

This is why I prefer the LEB. It's so easy to see the original Greek text within it:

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

The verbs you spoke of being active are: behold, passed and have come (perfect indicative). We should "behold" new creation from Christ is my view.

Hi Chessman,

Sorry it took so long to gt back to this, I've been really busy at work and haven't had much time. I think the problem is that I misquoted my original post. The verbs I was referring to are in verse 15 not 17.

15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. (2Co 5:15 NKJ)

 

[DRS81]

Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (KJV)

I have been studying this verse with a friend and we are trying to decide if one becomes a new creation instantly or if it takes time. I think that when we are saved not everything about our old creature's desires are changed in an instant. It requires practicing ones faith to become the new creature. The more we do the will of the Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

I believe we are a new creation the moment the Holy Spirit enters into us. How can we not be. This is the miracle.

 

[Randy]

Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (KJV)

I have been studying this verse with a friend and we are trying to decide if one becomes a new creation instantly or if it takes time. I think that when we are saved not everything about our old creature's desires are changed in an instant. It requires practicing ones faith to become the new creature. The more we do the will of the Father and see that it is better than our own will, the stronger our faith becomes.

I think your question is in the context of sanctification. I believe the new creation is instant with the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have made their home with us. And sanctification is associated with one born of God. 1John 3:9 So at that point one has been given everything they need to live as we are taught. 2 Peter 1:3 It just a matter of putting what we are taught into practice. We can grow in wisdom and maturity after being born again but no further gift is needed or promised in scripture. The new creation is enough. Christ in us.

Randy

 

[eddif]

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The new creation no longer has sin as the ruling force over our life. The fact that an occasional sin hits is usually not denied ( if we say we have no sin we are a lier and the truth is not in us.

We are able to tell others about the salvation in Jesus Christ, because we believe in His work on the cross and are empowered by receiving Holy Spirit for power.

At the resurrection the flesh will be totally changed. We need not tell a different story (a story where we are now made sin free in the flesh). In our new created mind we serve the law of god ( through Jesus Christ our Lord). At the last day all problems with the flesh will be resolved.

The good news is anyone can be saved from
The dominion of sin. Confess sin, believe in the finished work of Jesus and receive Holy Spirit (when you believe or later.

I sound like a skipping record .

eddif

 

[jeff77]

I think your question is in the context of sanctification. I believe the new creation is instant with the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have made their home with us. And sanctification is associated with one born of God. 1John 3:9 So at that point one has been given everything they need to live as we are taught. 2 Peter 1:3 It just a matter of putting what we are taught into practice. We can grow in wisdom and maturity after being born again but no further gift is needed or promised in scripture. The new creation is enough. Christ in us.

Randy

Great post! I wish I had realized years ago that I already had what I needed to grow in Christ. I think a lot of Christians don't know how powerful the Holy Spirit's gift is when they get saved.

 

[eddif]

Great post! I wish I had realized years ago that I already had what I needed to grow in Christ. I think a lot of Christians don't know how powerful the Holy Spirit's gift is when they get saved.

For me the reception of Holy Spirit was not automatic. The denomination did not believe that the spiritual gifts the prophets manifested were for today. Let alone the sons and daughters involved in prophecy ( speaking forth the mighty works of God). Dreams, visions, word of knowledge, word of wisdom were not even mentioned. Witnessing power came from a class.

I had a Pentecostal grandmother who had been practically forbid from talking of these things. We'll her prayers were evidently strong enough to overcome tradition. Most of my Holy Spirit experience is outside of Church type settings .

Love Daniel : the hand written tongues appeared on the wall and Daniel interpreted. Tongues and interpretation right there in the OT. Corinthians is just spirituals given to Gentiles.

eddif

 

[jeff77]

For me the reception of Holy Spirit was not automatic. The denomination did not believe that the spiritual gifts the prophets manifested were for today. Let alone the sons and daughters involved in prophecy ( speaking forth the mighty works of God). Dreams, visions, word of knowledge, word of wisdom were not even mentioned. Witnessing power came from a class.

I had a Pentecostal grandmother who had been practically forbid from talking of these things. We'll her prayers were evidently strong enough to overcome tradition. Most of my Holy Spirit experience is outside of Church type settings .

Love Daniel : the hand written tongues appeared on the wall and Daniel interpreted. Tongues and interpretation right there in the OT. Corinthians is just spirituals given to Gentiles.

eddif

What exactly do you mean reception of the Holy Spirit was not automatic? Just curious.