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SputnikBoy
Guest
That's okay ...It's not my intention to hit you over the head with this. But, take this anyway just for the heck of it ...! :smt021
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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U
unred typo
Guest
I didn’t vote since I don’t believe any of the above but I do have an opinion and a suggestion. You can worship God every day, in your heart, whatever you are doing if you do everything ‘heartily as unto the Lord.’ You can even whistle it while you work. You can’t rest everyday or you would start to resemble the couch and also it would be in violation of what God said as much as not resting on the seventh day. I seem to recall, “6 days shall you labor….â€Â
You can rest on the seventh day, Saturday, and go to church on Sunday morning. IMHO, Church is work. You can spend the rest of Sunday slogging through the ‘hunny-do’ list that you never get to while you’re gainfully employed. Then if you’ve any energy left, you can drag yourself back for Sunday eve service and sing with real joy knowing that tomorrow is Monday when you’ll be back at ‘work’. Don’t mow on Sunday or you’ll cause your misinformed brothers to sin in cursing and judging you by your ungodly activities, even though they would probably gasp if you should dare to say Christians are under the law. :wink:
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Preacher Boy
Guest
Here is some ifo I didnt notice regarding the topic:
For those who say we must observe the Sacred Suday as the Sabbath and do no work...etc...the commandment is not just Exodus 20:8!
So whats my point?
Glad you asked!
(Exodus 20:9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
If you dont work 6 days then you are not obeying the commandment!
The typical 5 day work week and a picinic on saturday with the family may sound pleasant but is breaking the commandment.
So just becareful to include all the commandment, not just the one part that sounds nice to keep.
For those who say we must observe the Sacred Suday as the Sabbath and do no work...etc...the commandment is not just Exodus 20:8!
So whats my point?
Glad you asked!
(Exodus 20:9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
If you dont work 6 days then you are not obeying the commandment!
The typical 5 day work week and a picinic on saturday with the family may sound pleasant but is breaking the commandment.
So just becareful to include all the commandment, not just the one part that sounds nice to keep.
U
unred typo
Guest
Preacher Boy wrote:
(Exodus 20:9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
If you dont work 6 days then you are not obeying the commandment!
The typical 5 day work week and a picinic on saturday with the family may sound pleasant but is breaking the commandment.
So just becareful to include all the commandment, not just the one part that sounds nice to keep.
While I did make a statement that sounded similar to your ‘violation,’ I meant that you can’t rest every day as if every day was a holy day unto the Lord. That would be in violation of God’s command that “Six days shall you labor, and do all your workâ€Â. God expects us to have made enough effort to support ourselves that we would even need a rest. I think the command means that you should plan to do whatever work you need to do within the 6 days before or after the seventh day, setting aside it aside as a day of R&R. If you can get your work done in 5 days, good for you. It isn’t a command to work 6 days. It’s a command to work no more than the 6 days in a row. If you continually work much more or less than that, you better plan on some health issues because that is how we are designed to function at optimum efficiency. God made us and he should know.
I don’t think we have too many people overworking themselves anyways. Maybe the command is more to prevent parents, employers, kings, slave owners, etc. from overworking those who are subject to their orders. We all need a rest. God set aside the seventh day for rest. It commemorates his creation workweek and rest day. Why would you want to change it? Just to see if it makes him angry? To prove you don't care what he wants? what? :roll:
(Exodus 20:9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
If you dont work 6 days then you are not obeying the commandment!
The typical 5 day work week and a picinic on saturday with the family may sound pleasant but is breaking the commandment.
So just becareful to include all the commandment, not just the one part that sounds nice to keep.
While I did make a statement that sounded similar to your ‘violation,’ I meant that you can’t rest every day as if every day was a holy day unto the Lord. That would be in violation of God’s command that “Six days shall you labor, and do all your workâ€Â. God expects us to have made enough effort to support ourselves that we would even need a rest. I think the command means that you should plan to do whatever work you need to do within the 6 days before or after the seventh day, setting aside it aside as a day of R&R. If you can get your work done in 5 days, good for you. It isn’t a command to work 6 days. It’s a command to work no more than the 6 days in a row. If you continually work much more or less than that, you better plan on some health issues because that is how we are designed to function at optimum efficiency. God made us and he should know.
I don’t think we have too many people overworking themselves anyways. Maybe the command is more to prevent parents, employers, kings, slave owners, etc. from overworking those who are subject to their orders. We all need a rest. God set aside the seventh day for rest. It commemorates his creation workweek and rest day. Why would you want to change it? Just to see if it makes him angry? To prove you don't care what he wants? what? :roll:
P
Preacher Boy
Guest
So if you have a "full time" job (40 hours), and you get all thyat weeks work done in 23 hours should you still get paid for the 40 hours or 23?
Not being harsh, but I take "Six days shalt thou labour" as six days not if you can fit 6 into 5, OK.
Not being harsh, but I take "Six days shalt thou labour" as six days not if you can fit 6 into 5, OK.
U
unred typo
Guest
Preacher Boy wrote: So if you have a "full time" job (40 hours), and you get all thyat weeks work done in 23 hours should you still get paid for the 40 hours or 23?
I don’t follow your reasoning. I know what you’re saying but it doesn’t apply. I don’t think you’ll find any verse that supports the notion that God demands X amount of work to entitle one to a day of rest. The point I apparently failed to make was that the command is to get your work done during the other 6 days, and plan ahead so you can rest on the seventh.
Preacher Boy wrote: Not being harsh, but I take "Six days shalt thou labour" as six days not if you can fit 6 into 5, OK.
No offence taken. It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think it is what was intended. The thought is “you have six days to labor, and get your work done in, and the seventh day is set apart for rest.†Even the Pharisees who loved to make everything harder than it was meant to be, didn’t stone anyone for loafing on the fourth, fifth or sixth day. The only verses I can think of that set any rules for work is that if a man refused to work in the communes of the first churches, ‘neither shall he eat,’ and the ones about doing your work faithfully as unto the Lord.
Hey, give it a rest...it's the seventh day.... 8-)
I don’t follow your reasoning. I know what you’re saying but it doesn’t apply. I don’t think you’ll find any verse that supports the notion that God demands X amount of work to entitle one to a day of rest. The point I apparently failed to make was that the command is to get your work done during the other 6 days, and plan ahead so you can rest on the seventh.
Preacher Boy wrote: Not being harsh, but I take "Six days shalt thou labour" as six days not if you can fit 6 into 5, OK.
No offence taken. It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think it is what was intended. The thought is “you have six days to labor, and get your work done in, and the seventh day is set apart for rest.†Even the Pharisees who loved to make everything harder than it was meant to be, didn’t stone anyone for loafing on the fourth, fifth or sixth day. The only verses I can think of that set any rules for work is that if a man refused to work in the communes of the first churches, ‘neither shall he eat,’ and the ones about doing your work faithfully as unto the Lord.
Hey, give it a rest...it's the seventh day.... 8-)
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
Below is an interesting piece of documentary from Wikepedia. Does anyone agree with or refute what it has to say regarding the issue of the Sabbath?
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath"
While a clear mandate is given for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the closest passage to a command for Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament is found in Hebrews 4:9, which describes the Sabbath not as a day, but instead as a state of being, the context and grammar of the passage indicate otherwise.
In that passage is found the word "sabbatismos". The Authorized Version (King James Version of 1611) and New King James Version and several others render that word as "rest". The American Standard Version of 1901, New American Standard Bible 1995 Updated Edition and several other translations somewhat more correctly render that word as "Sabbath rest". A few, such as the Darby translation, transliterate the word as "Sabbatism". However, its literal translation is "Sabbath observance", and The Scriptures, translated by The Institute For Scripture Research, render it as such, while The Bible in Basic English gives the equally literal "Sabbath keeping".
In regard to taking Sabbatismos literally, Professor Andrew T. Lincoln, on page 213 in his symposium From Sabbath To The Lord's Day, states "The use of sabbatismos elsewhere in extant Greek literature gives an indication of its more exact shade of meaning. It is used in Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia166A) of Sabbath observance. There are also four occurrences in post canonical literature that are independent of Hebrews 4:9. They are Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2. In each of these places the term denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath. This usage corresponds to the Septuagint usage of the cognate verb sabbatizo (cf. Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34; 2 Chron. 36:21).
Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding." The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is "Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God." Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath.
In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, "For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day." On first glance in our English translations, that word "another" would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean "another". "Heteros" means "another of a different kind", while "allos" means "another of the same kind". The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is "allos", indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term "certain day". The Greek word for "certain" is "tis". It is clearly referrencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest.
The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is "left behind", literally, for Christians to observe. This is significant, in light of the greater context of the book of Hebrews, which deals with the entire Aaronic priesthood and its methods of worship as found in the Old Covenant being supplanted by the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus Christ. As the Hebrews writer states in Hebrews 12:27, "And this word, Yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things which have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain."
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath"
While a clear mandate is given for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the closest passage to a command for Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament is found in Hebrews 4:9, which describes the Sabbath not as a day, but instead as a state of being, the context and grammar of the passage indicate otherwise.
In that passage is found the word "sabbatismos". The Authorized Version (King James Version of 1611) and New King James Version and several others render that word as "rest". The American Standard Version of 1901, New American Standard Bible 1995 Updated Edition and several other translations somewhat more correctly render that word as "Sabbath rest". A few, such as the Darby translation, transliterate the word as "Sabbatism". However, its literal translation is "Sabbath observance", and The Scriptures, translated by The Institute For Scripture Research, render it as such, while The Bible in Basic English gives the equally literal "Sabbath keeping".
In regard to taking Sabbatismos literally, Professor Andrew T. Lincoln, on page 213 in his symposium From Sabbath To The Lord's Day, states "The use of sabbatismos elsewhere in extant Greek literature gives an indication of its more exact shade of meaning. It is used in Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia166A) of Sabbath observance. There are also four occurrences in post canonical literature that are independent of Hebrews 4:9. They are Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2. In each of these places the term denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath. This usage corresponds to the Septuagint usage of the cognate verb sabbatizo (cf. Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34; 2 Chron. 36:21).
Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding." The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is "Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God." Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath.
In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, "For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day." On first glance in our English translations, that word "another" would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean "another". "Heteros" means "another of a different kind", while "allos" means "another of the same kind". The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is "allos", indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term "certain day". The Greek word for "certain" is "tis". It is clearly referrencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest.
The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is "left behind", literally, for Christians to observe. This is significant, in light of the greater context of the book of Hebrews, which deals with the entire Aaronic priesthood and its methods of worship as found in the Old Covenant being supplanted by the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus Christ. As the Hebrews writer states in Hebrews 12:27, "And this word, Yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things which have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain."
R
Remember
Guest
Exodus 20:8-9 is part of the covenant between God and the OT Jews. That covenant remains for all time for all to see, but it is not of affect in the lives of NT Christians. It was not carried over to the NT nor to Christians.
God specifies this covenant and to whom it affects:
Ex 31:13-17
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV
One might note that it says "it is a sign for ever" and "a perpetual covenant". Yes, forever perpetual between God and the OT Jews. That covenant has not changed between them. The OT Jews simply don't exist any more so there is no one subject to that covenant anymore.
Jesus did not carry this covenant over into the NT.
This is, without doubt, another example to us that God expects to be obeyed. What has been stated as part of the covenant in which we live, we are to obey.
God specifies this covenant and to whom it affects:
Ex 31:13-17
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV
One might note that it says "it is a sign for ever" and "a perpetual covenant". Yes, forever perpetual between God and the OT Jews. That covenant has not changed between them. The OT Jews simply don't exist any more so there is no one subject to that covenant anymore.
Jesus did not carry this covenant over into the NT.
This is, without doubt, another example to us that God expects to be obeyed. What has been stated as part of the covenant in which we live, we are to obey.
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
So why, then, did Jesus make an IMPORTANT reference to those who would become Christians of the New Covenant when He warned them of the future fall of Jerusalem (AD70) in Matthew 24:20. Did Jesus not know that the keeping of the Sabbath would have been abolished by then or did this, perhaps, slip His mind? Bear in mind that this event occurred some 40 years after His death and resurrection.
Also, would you please address my above post concerning Hebrews 4:9?
Also, also ...the scripture, please, where it tells us that Christians are no longer required to obey ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments. Thank you.
Also, would you please address my above post concerning Hebrews 4:9?
Also, also ...the scripture, please, where it tells us that Christians are no longer required to obey ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments. Thank you.
C
ChristineES
Guest
Most people I know don't just sit around on their day off from work, they labor around the house and the yard- That is work, too. My stepfather when I was a child used his weekends to mow the lawn, rake leaves, trim plants and other stuff. My mother cleaned the house.
My husband on his days off does errands and such.
Are you breaking the Commandment just because you don't get paid for any work you do? Chew on that for awhile.
My husband on his days off does errands and such.
Are you breaking the Commandment just because you don't get paid for any work you do? Chew on that for awhile.
francisdesales
Member
ChristineES said:
I know this will not be a popular answer, but the Sabbath was not meant to "catch up on stuff that didn't get done during the week". It is a day of rest (nothing to do with pay) that is meant for MANKIND to reconnect with God and come to appreciate His role in life and the gifts that God has given to man, including esp. his family.
Although my wife might not like it, I absolutely refuse to do any housework on Sunday. I will bust my butt on Saturday or during the week. But Sunday is for God and the family, not mowing the grass. I am truly happy about Sundays, because we are so busy during the week, we hardly see each other. Sunday gives us a reason to sit down together, pray, eat, and talk. It is a gift from God, in my opinion.
Regards
U
unred typo
Guest
ChristineES wrote: Most people I know don't just sit around on their day off from work, they labor around the house and the yard- That is work, too. My stepfather when I was a child used his weekends to mow the lawn, rake leaves, trim plants and other stuff. My mother cleaned the house.
My husband on his days off does errands and such.
Are you breaking the Commandment just because you don't get paid for any work you do? Chew on that for awhile.
What command are you breaking? The one about the Sabbath given to the Jews? Or the one that God declared after the sixth day of creation when he rested on the seventh and sanctified it and set it apart for mankind as a day of rest from their labors? The latter, I would say.
The law for the Jews has been done away in Christ’s NT commands to his followers. You know that Jesus was accused of breaking the Jewish interpretation of the Sabbath law. He maintained that he had not sinned by doing good on the Sabbath and that it was created as rest for man, not to punish him. I’m not sure if the lawyers and Pharisees had added more strict observance of this law or not. God was pretty strict about it in the OT.
Jesus didn’t make an issue of observing it in the Bible. It would have been like preaching to the choir at that time anyways. It was very much part of their way of life and probably a real money maker for the temple hierarchy. Not to mention a neat way to put to death unwanted miracle workers who drew a big following by healing crowds and preaching aberrant doctrines like love and mercy just by declaring ‘healing’ a work not to be done on Sabbath days.
As for us, if you are going to observe a day of rest, God picked Saturday. I’d go with that.
8-)
My husband on his days off does errands and such.
Are you breaking the Commandment just because you don't get paid for any work you do? Chew on that for awhile.
What command are you breaking? The one about the Sabbath given to the Jews? Or the one that God declared after the sixth day of creation when he rested on the seventh and sanctified it and set it apart for mankind as a day of rest from their labors? The latter, I would say.
The law for the Jews has been done away in Christ’s NT commands to his followers. You know that Jesus was accused of breaking the Jewish interpretation of the Sabbath law. He maintained that he had not sinned by doing good on the Sabbath and that it was created as rest for man, not to punish him. I’m not sure if the lawyers and Pharisees had added more strict observance of this law or not. God was pretty strict about it in the OT.
Jesus didn’t make an issue of observing it in the Bible. It would have been like preaching to the choir at that time anyways. It was very much part of their way of life and probably a real money maker for the temple hierarchy. Not to mention a neat way to put to death unwanted miracle workers who drew a big following by healing crowds and preaching aberrant doctrines like love and mercy just by declaring ‘healing’ a work not to be done on Sabbath days.
As for us, if you are going to observe a day of rest, God picked Saturday. I’d go with that.
8-)
C
ChristineES
Guest
You guys don't pay attention: There are TWO days off, not just one!! :o
You can use one for rest and the other to catch up on stuff. I was commented on those who talked about not working 6 days. What is wrong with you that you did not get that? :wink:
You can use one for rest and the other to catch up on stuff. I was commented on those who talked about not working 6 days. What is wrong with you that you did not get that? :wink:
U
unred typo
Guest
I read yours. Did you read mine? Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:06 am
unred typo said:
C
ChristineES
Guest
I think I should apologize for being a bit rude back there. I was a little miffed that one person did not understand what I was responding to. I naturally expect people to realize what which statement I am responding to. I responded only after reading the first one after mine.
U
unred typo
Guest
No problem, ChristineES, I saw your :wink: and I didn’t think you were being rude but then I have a high threshold for rudeness. :wink: :-D
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
francisdesales said:
Hmmm, francis ...you DO realize, don't you, that Sunday is not the Sabbath ...? And, unless you apply an RCC mandate to your life, Sunday isn't even a 'holy' day. You appear to be honoring the wrong day. The 7th-day was a gift from God. I'm not 'bashing', just making a pertinent point.