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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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A question for the agnostics and atheists
- Thread starter darrell
- Start date
I put this question in anther thread and I think it applies here too. I've always thought of atheism as a lack of belief rather than a belief in something so how can they answer your question that requires a belief in something?
There was a time when I denied God and I can tell you that I didn't think about anything accept the moment. I had no thoughts about the afterlife since I didn't believe in one. Because the thought of forever didn't apply in my life I didn't let it bother me. I just existed at the moment with no purpose other than pleasing myself, which often times manifested itself in the way I treated others. I was a nice person, respectful, kind, caring, and friendly but what I lacked was a life purpose beyond my own daily existence.
There was a time when I denied God and I can tell you that I didn't think about anything accept the moment. I had no thoughts about the afterlife since I didn't believe in one. Because the thought of forever didn't apply in my life I didn't let it bother me. I just existed at the moment with no purpose other than pleasing myself, which often times manifested itself in the way I treated others. I was a nice person, respectful, kind, caring, and friendly but what I lacked was a life purpose beyond my own daily existence.
makinbacon
Member
Deavonreye
Member
What is in question is "does a god exist". It is not the atheist's "burden of proof" to address this question, but the one who offers up the ideology. It isn't "playing word games". The person who makes the claim must provide evidence.
I'm agnostic, so I don't claim that "there are no gods". However, I've not found any compelling evidence for this belief, therefore, until I do, I have no reason to believe what is being pushed.
As for the OP, . . . I was depressed after I left the church. Mostly because I instantly lost some friends, and because I realized that my beliefs [that I had blindly followed for decades] were no longer congruent with what I discovered upon searching out such topics. Nowadays, I'm fine, emotionally.
I think I was corrected in another thread. I probably should have used a phrase more like unwilling to believe. At any rate, an atheist does not believe in anything so how can they provide an account for their views? They don't see the wonder of God around them for what it is because they refuse to believe or even acknowledge the god concept for to do so would make them agnostic, right?
dadof10
Member
I think a more basic question would be, "we exist and there are only two theories that explain our existence. One is, we were created, the other is, we weren't, which means everything within our perception just randomly happened. The question is: which theory is more reasonable?". I think the former is more reasonable, therefore I'm a theist. Both of us can say "I don't know" to the question of "is there a God?", but if we look at which theory is more reasonable, an answer is more likely.
Sent via cellular telephone over the inter-web.
P
Pebbles
Guest
No actually the opposite than if I try to believe.
If there is a god then he fails to heal people who ask for his help he poorly designed us and engineered us to suffer. What a depressing fatalistic outlook.
If there isn't a god then disease happens due to entropy and evolution while unfortunate it allows us to understand and hopefully escape our pain for at least awhile. It gives you a reason to want to live... Because death is an unknowable oblivion the undoing of your entire begin... I can't say I want that... because I can't know it.
As for others given how bad things are in this world I'd rather be someone to try and make it alittle better for others however I can because you both deserve to be treated with dignity.
My world really is happier world without a loveless monster threatening me with oblivion thus I deny the exsistance of a creature I have no way of quantifying or proving.
If there is a god then he fails to heal people who ask for his help he poorly designed us and engineered us to suffer. What a depressing fatalistic outlook.
If there isn't a god then disease happens due to entropy and evolution while unfortunate it allows us to understand and hopefully escape our pain for at least awhile. It gives you a reason to want to live... Because death is an unknowable oblivion the undoing of your entire begin... I can't say I want that... because I can't know it.
As for others given how bad things are in this world I'd rather be someone to try and make it alittle better for others however I can because you both deserve to be treated with dignity.
My world really is happier world without a loveless monster threatening me with oblivion thus I deny the exsistance of a creature I have no way of quantifying or proving.
Mike
Member
The burden of proof is something that each of us needs to deal with on our own. Why is there a burden of proof on either side unless each are attempting to convince the other of their view? We have here a Christian based discussion board, and atheistic/agnostic members who have decided to join. In life there is no burden of proof on either side. We can both go our own ways. But if an atheist or agnostic is honest, it seems as if the burden of proof lies on them on a Christian board.
That said, it is against the ToS to attempt to convince members that their Christian faith wrong.
dadof10
Member
Did you come to this revelation purely through rational, scientific means, or through the guidance of the Holy Spirit? My experience has been that a Christian can only come to Christ through the prompting of the Spirit.
I agree with you, WIP. I believe there is a God, but our rational minds can only get us so far. God has to take us the rest of the way.
Sent via cellular telephone over the inter-web.
G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
I am an existentialist, pretty much. I assent that we create our own meaning for our lives. Yet, I reject post-modernism. Morality is a function of language, but the concept we speak of when we use words like "good" and "evil" in the West (i.e. the idea behind the words) is universal. That is, the terms "good" and "evil" used in other cultures might not refer to the same concept (i.e. humanism), and therefore is not an equivalence. Thus, I am able to discard the moral relativism associated with post-modernism, while still being a moral relativist in the sense that morality is just a part of language. Western concepts of morality can hold for the whole world, as other belief systems merely have differ affections.
Sorry, if that does not make any sense. I am tired from an 11-hour day.
Sorry, if that does not make any sense. I am tired from an 11-hour day.
makinbacon
Member
I felt such a discussion should not be continued within this thread. To see my response, please see the thread "The 'Lack of Belief' Game."
makinbacon
Member
"Does not believe" and "do not believe" are still troublesome phrases with many atheists on the Internet. To them, these only serve as a negation of belief. They do not view "I do not believe gods exist" as the equal to "I believe gods do not exists." I understand the intended distinction, but it betrays how the expression "do not believe" is understood by English speakers. It is without a foundation within the semantics of the English language. (And don't get me started on the attempts to define atheism by the application of English morphology.)
Deavonreye
Member
Where I respect your opinion, until I have other evidence presented, the only one that I can go with is what has been studies and tested. I made an error before, . . .saying that the universe was chaotic. I did some research, and yes it has order. But this order must be. Physical laws cannot be refuted. As for your point, I really don't see any evidence to "a created world, made 6,000 - 10,000 years ago". That is just my sincere offering.
I don't have any need or desire to prove it with scientific, rational, or any other human means. I just believe by faith.
"Thomas, you have seen and therefore believe. Blessed are those that have not seen and yet believe."
Pizzaguy
Member
How could anyone come to this by any rational or scientific means?
I know that, at age 17, I still did not fully believe when I accepted Christ by faith - it was largely faith. The arguments made by the pastor and a friend that I was talking to were compelling, but not convincing.
I decided to believe by faith - and it was some time, a few years, before I became convinced that I made the right decision. I had doubts, I wondered, I questioned. But it seemed that the more I questioned God, the closer to Him I found myself!
dadof10
Member
The point is not who has the best evidence, it's which THEORY is more logical. I think the argument has been somewhat hijacked by those who claim theists must provide all the evidence to prove there is a God. My point is that the alternative is less logical, so they should at least share the burden of proof. They should at least have to argue why randomness makes more logical sense than creation.
Sent via cellular telephone over the inter-web.
jasoncran
Member
good point. or why we should take their view that our God isnt real or so forth.
Deavonreye
Member
The mechanics of the scientific explaination is easily found in text books or science based webpages.
dadof10
Member
I don't think you can come to CHRISTIANITY through purely scientific or rational means. It takes faith to embrace fully all the tenents of Christianity. I was commenting that belief in a CREATOR is a more logical position than the alternative. I think you can come to that conclusion easily without any faith in Christ and by pure logic.
My contention is that the most basic question is not "is there's a God", with "I don't know" as the alternative. We only have two theories, creation and randomness. I think creation is far more logical than randomness or, as I've heard it put more than once once "just the way things are"
Sent via cellular telephone over the inter-web.