A quick look at the 4 Christian baptisms

[Senior]

Baptism into the church (salvation) --- the Holy Spirit is the baptizer (1 Cor 12:13)
This refers to being “born again (from above)” with the Holy Spirit entering the person.
7 verses say the Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer.

Baptism in water (symbolic demonstration of faith) --- man does the baptizing
Jesus died to self, went down under the earth, was resurrected with a new incorruptible body.
We are to die to self, go down under the water, come up a new man ready to live a new life.
Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17).

Baptism with the Holy Spirit (mostly power for ministry) --- Jesus is the baptizer
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after being born again (or at the same time).
7 verses say the Holy Spirit comes UPON the believer.

Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptizer
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire.

All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire:
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

(1) -- Baptism into the church (salvation) --- the Holy Spirit is the baptiser
This does NOT refer to a phony salvation, which has always been quite prevalent,
i.e. merely an intellectual belief or conversion of one’s thinking.
But this refers to being “born again (from above)” with the Holy Spirit entering the person.
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer … John 14:16-23; Romans 8:11;
1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; 2 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:12-16.

(2) -- Baptism in water (symbolic demonstration of faith) --- the pastor is the baptiser
Full-immersion baptism in water is symbolic, being the outward expression of inward faith.
Any other type of water baptism is unscriptural and just dreamed up by man.
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4)
”… buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through
faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)
Jesus died to self, went down under the earth, was resurrected with a new incorruptible body.
We are to die to self, go down under the water, come up a new man ready to live a new life.
Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17).
Scripture says we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).

(3) -- Baptism with the Holy Spirit (mostly power for ministry) --- Jesus is the baptiser
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
… Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after being born again (or at the same time).
7 verses say that for this baptism the Holy Spirit comes UPON the believer, for example:
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered
the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall
be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (Acts 11:15-16)
14 Scripture passages directly LINK the following gifts and events with this baptism:
the promise, the gift, upon, laying on of hands, filled with the Holy Spirit,
received the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, power, boldness, miracles.
I have a chart showing how they are obviously all linked together in the 14 Scriptures.

(4) -- Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptiser
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire.
“He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16)
Jesus asks His 12 disciples if they are able and willing to be martyrs after Him …
“Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the
baptism that I am baptized with? … You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39)

All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire:
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

 

[chessman]

Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the
baptism that I am baptized with? … You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39)

Hmm, never noticed this (the parallels) before. Interesting. Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

Great post Senior

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. The Holy Spirit is the indwelling within those who are Spiritually born again that fills us with God's power and authority. Fire means empowerment as in taking God's power and authority given to us by His grace that we through the Holy Spirit take charge over the evil principalities of this world as in Ephesians 6:10-18.

 

[Razeontherock]

Fire also means purging, purifying. God's purifying fire can Baptize us without any external input; another benefit of listening to the Spirit!

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Senior.

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say baptism is an outward expression of an inward faith?

(2) -- Baptism in water (symbolic demonstration of faith) --- the pastor is the baptiser

Full-immersion baptism in water is symbolic, being the outward expression of inward faith.
Any other type of water baptism is unscriptural and just dreamed up by man.

can you show me where water baptism is in the scriptures?

 

[Senior]

Hi Senior.
Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say baptism is an outward expression of an inward faith?
can you show me where water baptism is in the scriptures?

It would save me a lot of time if you saw the answer to both questions in these verses?

“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4)

”… buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through
faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)

 

[stovebolts]

It would save me a lot of time if you saw the answer to both questions in these verses?

“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4)

”… buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through
faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)

Do you think that when Paul wrote these passages, water was the place these baptisms occured?

The reason I ask is because regardless of the means; whether it be Jesus breathing on the Apostles, the laying on of hands, the confession of faith or even being dunked in water...all of these means show that one is baptized in Christ.

What I'm getting at is this. You said water baptism is an outward expression of an inward faith. For me, this simple statement presents many questions that honestly beg more questions.

For instance, an inward faith... our faith? If it's our faith then water baptism is nothing more than something vain much like the Pharisis praying out loud on the corner. "Hey everyone, look how obedient I am to the Lord. Look at my faith".

With this view, water baptism is nothing more than a vain work and God is not present. In short, I dont think scripture teaches a water baptism. What I do think, is that scripture teaches baptism in Christ, and this union is normative through water. The key word here is through.

In the Greek, this word through simply means instrument. Thus, one does not get water baptized. Instead, water is the instrument in which one is baptized in Christ.

While not explicit in scripture, water is the normative instument. True, scripture mentions other instruments but what it sums up to is this. One faith, and one baptism.

Hope that makes since.

 

[Senior]

Hope that makes since.

Thanks for sharing that.
Your take on water could make sense.
However, IMO, there definitely is more than one baptism.
E.G. Hebrews 6:2 mentions "baptisms" plural.
And I know for sure that the special baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which is administered by Jesus Himself, is much different than
when one is baptized into the church by the Holy Spirit.
Scripture says Jesus' baptism is when the Spirit comes UPON a person (7 verses),
while the Spirit comes INSIDE when one becomes born again.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks for sharing that.
Your take on water could make sense.
However, IMO, there definitely is more than one baptism.
E.G. Hebrews 6:2 mentions "baptisms" plural.
And I know for sure that the special baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which is administered by Jesus Himself, is much different than
when one is baptized into the church by the Holy Spirit.
Scripture says Jesus' baptism is when the Spirit comes UPON a person (7 verses),
while the Spirit comes INSIDE when one becomes born again.

Your welcome, and thanks for sharing your views.
I'd still like to understand what you mean by "An outward expression of an inward faith" when you get around to it.

Honestly, sometimes I think too much and sometimes I come to wrong conclusions, so let me give this a shot. (Please ignore my red title... I am a humble brother in this conversation).

If I were to look at this intellectually, and by intellectually I mean logically; I would find an apparent contradiction between the plurality in Hebrews 6:2 and the singularity in Ephesians 4:5. It's the same logical error we find and wrestle with when we speak of the Trinity.

We understand that the word baptism is used in many different ways in the NT writings as well as the first century . Furthermore, the word baptize is not used exclusively within Christianity.

For this example, I will use Youngs Literal Translation.
YLT Mark 7:3-4 for the Pharisees, and all the Jews, if they do not wash the hands to the wrist, do not eat, holding the tradition of the elders, and, coming from the market-place, if they do not baptize themselves, they do not eat; and many other things there are that they received to hold, baptisms of cups, and pots, and brazen vessels, and couches.

I've put in bold wash, baptize and baptisms and while I do not hold Strongs as the final authority, it will suffice for this example which should be easy to understand.

Wash / baptize - Strongs 907
from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.

Baptisms - Strongs 909
from 907; ablution (ceremonial or Christian):--baptism, washing.
See Greek 907

What I see in Mark 7:3-4 is the plural sense (strongs 909) is referring to the objects - cups, pots, brazen vessels and couches.

Lets look at 1 Corinthians 12:12 (ASV)
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

One baptism, yet plural when speak of the objects. In this case the objects are Jews, Greeks, slaves or free. Keep in mind that this "One Body" is comprised of "Many Members".

When we speak of doctrines, it's the teachings of the church. Hebrews 6:2 is speaking about the teachings of the church and he mentions baptisms. Please recall Peter's mindset when it came to baptizing gentiles. We can read about what peter thought and did in Acts 10. What I see, is Peter held a doctrine about baptism that excluded Gentiles and no doubt, this was being taught to the church until God gave Peter a vision and then Peter saw the Holy Spirit in a gentile with his own eyes. As a response, Peter says, (ASV)
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?

What Peter is saying here is simple. Can anyone forbid these gentiles or deny these gentiles as members of Christ's Church.

The way I understand it, the issue in the first century wasn't parsing theologies but rather, it was defining who was in and who wasn't. Everyone including Jews Gentiles (Ha, that is everyone lol) had to shift their thinking to include every race, nation or social standing within ANY society. This is the foundational core to the truth and the doctrines regarding baptisms.

In addition, we can also bring in some historical context to help break this apparent contradiction. In the first century church popular document circulating which was believed to be the writings of the Apostles ( Acts 15 ). This document is known as the Didache.

When we look at the Didache, there is instruction for baptizing in water.

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.

When we look at the above instructions, we could refer to these collectively as baptisms and keep in mind, we are talking about "Doctrines" which include Jews, Gentiles, slave and free.

One reason I bring this up is that the writer of Hebrews states that these are the elementary teachings of the church. They are simple and easy to understand for anyone and should be very hard to confuse.

Albert Barns makes these comments on Hebrews 6:2
To understand the true doctrine respecting baptism was one of the first principles to be learned then, as it is now, as baptism is the rite by which we are initiated into the Church. This was supposed to be so simple, that young converts could understand it as one of the elements of the true religion; and the teaching on that subject now should be made so plain that the humblest disciple may comprehend it. If it was an element or first principle of religion; if it was presumed that any one who entered the Church could understand it, can it be believed that it was then so perplexing and embarrassing as it is often made now?

 

[Senior]

Steve,
We are asked to express our inward faith by copying Jesus,
who went down totally under the earth (for us, the water) and rising again,
victorious over death and the grave (for us, drowning).
Yes, Young's rendition is amazing!
Wow, your Hebrews 6:2 discourse, and the rest about baptisms, is too deep for me!
Certainly, there's more than I thought about baptisms.
But, the Didache certainly was written by men (Holy Spirit guided?).
I wonder if Barns though full immersion was obvious?
I have more about this, and will offer it in a separate post.

 

[Senior]

11 – The evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit baptism:
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word
… the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
For they (Peter and his companions) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be
baptized (in water) who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’
And he commanded them to be (water) baptized in the name of the Lord.“ Acts 10:44-48
Water baptism came after the Holy Spirit baptism, but in point 14 the reverse was true.

14 – Another occasion where believers received the Holy Spirit baptism:
“… they (the Ephesian disciples) were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …” Acts 19:5-6
Water baptism preceded the Holy Spirit baptism, but in point 11 the reverse was true.
.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Senior
I have to laugh because I've been called Steve so many times lol, we used to have a thread called "Steve tracker" for those that called me that. Please feel free to call me Jeff.

I figure it this way though. Peter misunderstood what Jesus was teaching him on numerous occasions and Peter was in the very presence of Jesus for what? Three years? If Peter can misunderstand things, then certainly I'm no exception.

When I read a passage in scripture, I try to take into account the audience the writer was addressing and what the writers intent was. From my biblical studies as well as my historical studies (which both are lacking if I can be honest), but I get the idea that one of the biggest challenges of the early church was unity and Baptism (in part) was a means to show unity. I parenthesized in part because there is meat in baptismal theology, but if we don't understand the milk, I think the meat starts to spoil.

When we look at Acts 10, it is undeniable that these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism through water. It is also undeniable that those you posted about in Ephesians received the Holy Spirit after baptism through water.

What I want to get at is this. Baptism through water is different than baptism in water. God can work through water just as easily as God can work through the laying on of hands. Both are instruments which God can utilize to impart his gift. Actually, God can utilize any instruments he desires to impart the Holy Spirit but when He does, it's for a specific purpose and reason that we can learn and grow from in order that walls we create to divide ourselves can be shattered to show us that we are united in Christ.

What I see as normative in scripture is this. God commanded his disciples baptize (through water) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe the baptism in the great commission that Jesus is referring to, is baptism through water. Let me explain.

The ministry of Jesus started with his baptism which we can read in Matthew 3. We see that the Holy Spirit came upon him when he came up from the water. It was after Jesus was baptized that he taught His disciples to follow him.

Scripture does not suggest that we express our faith by copying Jesus, it actually commands it. (ASV)
1 John 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
Scripture also says this. (ASV)
Philippians 2:5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
What is this mind? Unity.

Jesus started his ministry with baptism and if we are to start our walk with Jesus, then we copy what Jesus did and we obey his commandment to baptize.

With this as a cornerstone in my thinking, I have realized that baptism is more than an outward expression of my faith, but rather it is the outward expression of God's faith in us, as a community as it signifies ones entry into the Church because it shows that a person has Christ "in them" and that they are accepted by Him.

 

[Senior]

Hi Senior
I have to laugh because I've been called Steve so many times lol,
we used to have a thread called "Steve tracker" for those that called me that. Please feel free to call me Jeff.

Okay, but is it Jeff Stove or Jeff Bolts?
I prefer the latter, 'cause I love horses.

Thanks for the additional info, BTW.

 

[stovebolts]

Okay, but is it Jeff Stove or Jeff Bolts?
I prefer the latter, 'cause I love horses.

Thanks for the additional info, BTW.

Well, I came from a big family so I'll even respond to, "Hey you". But I prefer Jeff.

 

[Senior]

Well, I came from a big family so I'll even respond to, "Hey you". But I prefer Jeff.

I just cannot discern if you got the horses bit.

 

[stovebolts]

I just cannot discern if you got the horses bit.

We used hackamores!

 

[ezra]

New American Standard Bible
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, ........... it is a outward statement identified with Christ. some teach you have to be baptized to go to heaven.. one should be baptized after salvation.. there needs to a teaching on it . i have people tell me well i was baptized as a kid probably wouldn't hurt to be again for the most i am in agreement with SR....over the years i have watched folks take scriptures and turn it into a religious ceremony . i will not give any certain examples as it would surely create a bigger fire than in calif.. ..

 

[Senior]

We used hackamores!

Yes, Steve jolts, that's for sure!

 

[JLB]

4) -- Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptiser
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire.
“He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16)
Jesus asks His 12 disciples if they are able and willing to be martyrs after Him …
“Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the
baptism that I am baptized with? … You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39)

Did Jesus baptize Himself with this baptism?


I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11


Here is the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire.


When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4


There are three baptisms mentioned in scripture and are available to everyone.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2


Notice in scripture that the cloud was both a cloud by day and a fire by night.




JLB

 

[chessman]

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4

On this day were they filled with the actual Holy Spirit or were they filled with something that was like (as of) the Holy Spirit?