A quick look at the 4 Christian baptisms

[Senior]

There are three baptisms mentioned in scripture and are available to everyone.

You failed to mention your 3.
Actually, I have had second thoughts about what the baptism of fire really is.
Perhaps, it encompasses several things?

 

[Senior]

On this day were they filled with the actual Holy Spirit or were they filled with something that was like (as of) the Holy Spirit?

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4

This refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit where the Holy Spirit
comes UPON people, and NOT INSIDE which happens when
people first receive the Holy Spirit and become a new creation.

There are 7 (and only 7) verses in the NT, which speak of UPON
accompanying this baptism of anointing for special spiritual service.

BTW, no one receives any of the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12)
who has not received this special baptism of spiritual power.

Also, please notice in the above verse that these people were
FILLED with the Holy Spirit ... other believers are not FILLED.

Also, historically, some believers have received the precious Holy Spirit
both inside and upon simultaneously.

Yes, I know, this is NOT what your church teaches!

 

[chessman]

This refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit where the Holy Spirit comes UPON people, and
NOT INSIDE

Unfortunately for your position stated above, the Text says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, not come ‘upon’ by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Senior]

Unfortunately for your position stated above, the Text says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, not come ‘upon’ by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, but UPON is mentioned in 7 other verses which are talking about this baptism.

 

[chessman]

Yes, but UPON is mentioned in 7 other verses which are talking about this baptism.

We were talking about this verse. And it specifically says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, yet your view was/is that the Holy Spirit was and I quote “NOT INSIDE” them.

Whenever your position contradicts Scripture, it’s a sure sign your position isn’t based on Scripture.

 

[JLB]

On this day were they filled with the actual Holy Spirit or were they filled with something that was like (as of) the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit

 

[JLB]

You failed to mention your 3.
Actually, I have had second thoughts about what the baptism of fire really is.
Perhaps, it encompasses several things?

My three are the same as your first three.


I know it’s coming to the Church soon, for the last great revival.

One thing I believe the fire is, is Love.

A perfect love that drives out fear of being martyred.

Just my thought.

JLB

 

[chessman]

The Holy Spirit

Yep, that’s what Luke said.
So what about the baptism with fire; On this day were they filled with actual fire or did they merely see something like (as of fire) that sat upon them?

 

[JLB]

Yep, that’s what Luke said.
So what about the baptism with fire; On this day were they filled with actual fire or did they merely see something like (as of fire) that sat upon them?

It says -

Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4


Can you show me another scripture after this event that shows they were baptized with fire?



JLB

 

[chessman]

Can you show me another scripture after this event that shows they were baptized with fire?

“Another”??? This Scripture doesn’t say they were baptized with fire that day. That’s my point. There was something “like” fire there, not actual fire. There was sound there, so I suppose there’s more Biblical evidence for this being Baptism with the Holy Spirit and Baptism with sound, than for the Baptism with fire John prophecies.

But if you look at Luke’s parallel account of John The Baptist statement, there’s more details on the Baptism of fire than Matthew recorded:

John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”​

Luke 3:16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:16-17&version=LEB

No that’s real fire, not something “like” or “as if” fire.

 

[JLB]

Another”??? This Scripture doesn’t say they were baptized with fire that day. That’s my point. There was something “like” fire there, not actual fire.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11


Then your saying the prophet John the Baptist was a false prophet?



JLB

 

[chessman]

Then your saying the prophet John the Baptist was a false prophet?

Nope. That would be a false assumption on your part. I’m simply not someone who assumes Luke’s record of them seeing something that was inspired to be recorded as being “like fire” is actually being baptized with fire.

Are you saying Luke was wrong and they were baptized with actual fire versus what he said it was; something like fire?

But getting back to Luke’s account, I’m saying that when He will burn up the chaff (outer coverage of the fruit/wheat) with unquenchable fire, that IS baptism with fire.

 

[JLB]

Nope. That would be a false assumption on your part. I’m simply not someone who assumes Luke’s record of them seeing something that was inspired to be recorded as being “like fire” is actually being baptized with fire.

Ok. Here are the options.

1. Either the Day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of John the Baptist’s prophecy of - “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

2. Or the fulfillment came after the day of Pentecost, whereby the scripture indicates that event.​

3. Or, John the Baptist is s false prophet.​

If it is option 2, then please share the scripture that shows us the fulfillment, if you believe it was not fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Are you saying Luke was wrong and they were baptized with actual fire versus what he said it was; something like fire?

No I believe the day of Pentecost was the (beginning of the) fulfillment of John’s prophecy -

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11


then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4




Then all at once a pillar of fire appeared before their eyes. It separated into tongues of fire that engulfed each one of them. Acts 2:3 TPT



and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT





JLB

 

[chessman]

Here are the options.

John the Baptist didn’t prophecy options.

Either the Day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of John the Baptist’s prophecy of - “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

John the Baptist didn’t prophecy to the people that He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and something “like” fire. He said fire.

John the Baptist is s false prophet.

He didn’t say the people would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire on the same day.

If it is option 2, then please share the scripture that shows us the fulfillment, if you believe it was not fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

I did. The same Quote Matthew recorded is recorded by Luke in more detail:

John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”​

Luke 3:16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:16-17&version=LEB

 

[Senior]

We were talking about this verse. And it specifically says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, yet your view was/is that the Holy Spirit was and I quote “NOT INSIDE” them.

You're right, I mis-spoke.
The Holy Spirit came both INSIDE and UPON in this particular case.

 

[JLB]

John the Baptist didn’t prophecy options.

I agree.

He didn’t say the people would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire on the same day.

I agree.

This occurred on the day of Pentecost.

It plainly says so here in Acts 2:3


then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4




Then all at once a pillar of fire appeared before their eyes. It separated into tongues of fire that engulfed each one of them. Acts 2:3 TPT



and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT





JLB

 

[chessman]

that engulfed each one of them. Acts 2:3 TPT

Were they burned up that day as Luke recorded the chaff will be burned up?

as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT

as of fire,

Which is it; 1) as it were of fire 2) as of fire 3) fire or 4) something like fire???

Although it really doesn’t matter your opinion because the apostolic interpretation in Luke clearly shows that the Baptism of fire is Baptism with unquenchable fire that actually burns up the chaff, not something that looks like fire.

 

[JLB]

Were they burned up that day as Luke recorded the chaff will be burned up?

Why would the baptism of the Holy Spirit burn someone up?

Makes no sense.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Which is it; 1) as it were of fire 2) as of fire 3) fire or 4) something like fire???

Fire.

It’s the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire.


Just like what John the Baptist foretold.


John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Luke 3:16


JLB