A Righteous World !

[ezrider]

The righteous world is the world Christ died for.


Folks, understand something that those who are blind to truth will not accept, everyone Christ died for is born as sinners into this world, but at the same time they have been made Righteous before God by Christ having bear their sins, they just dont know it, though in due time it will be revealed to them!

I would agree with most of the points you are trying to make, but I must tell you, the point you are trying to make is rather difficult to gather from what you have written. Might I suggest you try and restate your points, but this time, just speak plainly.

There are two points that you have made, or rather two comments that I have quoted above that I feel need a little correction.

You said the righteous world is the world Christ died for. While I understand what you are trying to say, might it be better said that Christ died for the unrighteous world, that by his resuerrection they might know the new heaven and earth wherin dwells righteousness.


The second point of clarification, is many of your comments tend to lean towards the idea of the "righteousness" of the believer that will be revealed. And while we might understand that we have been made righteous through Christ, that is not what gets revealed to a believer. People accept that because it is written, and then thet claim it for themsleves.

But what is being revealed is the Righteousness of Christ in us, if we are looking toward and following after the Spirit of Christ. Our focus and attention should hold fast to the Righteousness of Christ and his promises. For even though we are the righteousness of God in Christ, we must know and accept that we ourselves are NOT righteouss, but that through our own unrighteousness, the Righteousness of the Lord might be revealed in our hearts and minds.

God has already judged the world according to sin!

Now we shall be judged according to faith and Righteousness of Christ!

 

[JohnDB]

Okay John. I am looking for persons who want to discuss the points I made. Thanks !

world, and that everyone in the world without exception has been reconciled to God or has an opportunity to be .

You claimed this to be false teaching...
I proved otherwise.

Sorry that you missed it. I profusely apologize.

 

[ezra]

jim



I want to discuss my points made, thats why I started the discussion ! Did you understand the points I made with scripture ? If you did, please provide proof of that ! Thanks

evidently your not interested in discussing points ..

 

[beloved57]

You claimed this to be false teaching...
I proved otherwise.

Sorry that you missed it. I profusely apologize.

I claimed what to be a false teaching ? How did I prove it from scripture ?

 

[beloved57]

ez rider

I would agree with most of the points you are trying to make,

Please stop right there. What points are you talking about ? Please review them with me. Thanks

 

[JohnDB]

I claimed what to be a false teaching ? How did I prove it from scripture ?

That everyone has an opportunity to or can be reconciled with God.

And you didn't use scripture to prove that point. You simply claimed it to be heresy. smaller and I have pretty much discussed this ad-nausea up to this point. If you would actually carefully read the replies to your thread you would have picked up on this instead of wondering why we aren't discussing the points you made. It would be laughable at this point if you weren't serious.
You need to actually carefully read the replies to your thread.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I would agree with most of the points you are trying to make, but I must tell you, the point you are trying to make is rather difficult to gather from what you have written. Might I suggest you try and restate your points, but this time, just speak plainly.

There are two points that you have made, or rather two comments that I have quoted above that I feel need a little correction.

You said the righteous world is the world Christ died for. While I understand what you are trying to say, might it be better said that Christ died for the unrighteous world, that by his resuerrection they might know the new heaven and earth wherin dwells righteousness.


The second point of clarification, is many of your comments tend to lean towards the idea of the "righteousness" of the believer that will be revealed. And while we might understand that we have been made righteous through Christ, that is not what gets revealed to a believer. People accept that because it is written, and then thet claim it for themsleves.

But what is being revealed is the Righteousness of Christ in us, if we are looking toward and following after the Spirit of Christ. Our focus and attention should hold fast to the Righteousness of Christ and his promises. For even though we are the righteousness of God in Christ, we must know and accept that we ourselves are NOT righteouss, but that through our own unrighteousness, the Righteousness of the Lord might be revealed in our hearts and minds.

God has already judged the world according to sin!

Now we shall be judged according to faith and Righteousness of Christ!

Nicely done. Helped clarify a few things in the OP for me.

 

[smaller]

The notion of limited imputation is provably false, even from the O.T. and long before Christ.

This for example is how God saw Israel, before Jesus came, and not just a remnant or a few in Israel, but ALL of them:

Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

Are either of those statements true from natural sight? Of course not. It is an imputed sight from God.

Were there unbelievers in Israel? There are always unbelievers. The majority are unbelievers. Was there perverseness in Israel? Of course or they wouldn't have fallen into adverse judgments, repeatedly.

There are many false notions of imputation. Many.

For example, we know for no uncertain fact of scripture that sin dwells not only in our flesh, but in the flesh of all mankind. Romans 7:17 & 20. Has God in Christ then overlooked sin by imputation of righteousness? Never. Not in anyone. We know from scripture that sin is a remains utterly condemned and under the condemnation of God in Christ. Romans 8:3.

We also know that we ourselves have NOT YET put on the full righteousness of Christ, not only because of indwelling sin, but also because we have "evil present" within us, which anyone can figure out for themselves by taking a casual look at their own sinful or evil thoughts which everyone has: Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 5:28. Romans 7:7-13 shows evil thoughts arise automatically when indwelling sin meets Gods laws. No one can stop that from transpiring internally. Not even an Apostle. Why? Because sin is as Paul described it: NO MORE I. But, as Paul notes quite honestly and factually, SIN and EVIL PRESENT does do what it does. It's only a question of who is honest about it or not, <- which is the case with most believers.

If we observe the 'honest' man in Luke 18, who was JUSTIFIED in the Eyes of God, it was the HONEST man, not the liar pharisee who thought he was somehow "not like other men." Which is exactly the charade/coverup positional claim the opening poster is engaged in. Scripture tells us precisely that "we are not better" when it comes to sin/being sinners. Romans 3:9, Gal. 3:22

Paul flat out tells us that the righteousness of Christ is something we are WAITING to put on:

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

This "righteousness" can not be while we still have sin indwelling our flesh and evil present with us. Romans 7:17-21. We also know that the Spirit IS and remains factually in contention and against our own sorry hides, because of indwelling sin and evil present with us. The notions that God in Christ is only our FRIEND are flat out wrong. Gal. 5:17. God in Christ is just as much our enemy as our friend. Not a popular sight among believers, granted. An honest believer will see the facts, as they are. They will also know the fear of the Lord is a real matter as is the terror of the Lord. I fear the Lord and am terrified of God in Christ just as much as I claim to Love God.

God looks upon us with TWO separate and distinct EYES. One Eye is unconditional unmerited Grace, Mercy and LOVE, and the OTHER EYE condemns the sin indwelling our flesh and the evil present with us. This is precisely why understanding scripture is difficult. Because we try to read with ONE EYE. It's an affliction of spiritual blindness, quite vainly wanting God to only see us ONE WAY with ONE EYE.

 

[smaller]

Huh ? Do you want to discuss the points I made ? Isnt this a discussion board to debate or discuss the points made ?

There is very little that you post that I can positionally agree with, and I've shown you why already. Why did you bypass my responses, then claim I'm not engaging your points? Which points are provably false.

When Jesus died for us, we were not even born yet, and when we were born, we were blinded enemies of the Gospel. Even after we're born again, we still have and retain the "enemy" quotient within us in the form of indwelling sin and evil present within us. Romans 7:17-21.

Am I going to claim that Gods death in the flesh made me or anyone else sinless? Never. God Himself put us precisely into a situation that DEMANDS HIS MERCY.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Believers who claim to have Gods Mercy and are subsequently stingy with it to other sinners, with believers or unbelievers, probably haven't gotten much themselves, IF ANY at all. The more likely conclusion is that they are under the ADVERSE JUDGMENT of God against their own sorry hides, and God is in the process of taking away what they think they have. I've seen it many times with people of faith as they grow older. Rather than getting kinder and more generous in the distribution of Gods Mercy, they get hard and stingy with Gods Mercy. It's quite pathetic to observe.

Go and learn this lesson:

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

IF I want Gods Mercy, then I best be looking upon ALL with the eye of MERCY, myself. That's how God Himself has set up the system. When we don't do this, we get what we think we have, taken away.

Matthew 13:12
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Mercy. Got any?

 

[smaller]

Here is a very simple little exercise:

IF God Is NOT Merciful to "all" sinners, THEN none of us would even be here.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[ezra]

Here is a very simple little exercise:

IF God Is NOT Merciful to "all" sinners, THEN none of us would even be here.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

exactly
my question is how can there be limited atonement? basically he is using Calvinist teaching by saying limited . .
1 Timothy 1:15King James Version (KJV)
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to

"save sinners;" of whom I am chief. i have asked twice what his points was so far nothing

 

[beloved57]

That everyone has an opportunity to or can be reconciled with God.

And you didn't use scripture to prove that point. You simply claimed it to be heresy. smaller and I have pretty much discussed this ad-nausea up to this point. If you would actually carefully read the replies to your thread you would have picked up on this instead of wondering why we aren't discussing the points you made. It would be laughable at this point if you weren't serious.
You need to actually carefully read the replies to your thread.

Show me a scripture that says all men have a opportunity to be reconciled to God. Thats on you !

 

[ezra]

Show me a scripture that says all men have a opportunity to be reconciled to God. Thats on you !

1 Timothy 2
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 " Who gave himself a ransom for all, " to be testified in due time.

hows that ? you see the opportunity for all to be saved is there. if not none of us would be saved... problem is not all will be saved,, some will reject the truth NOTE *** i am not johnDB

 

[ezrider]

Nicely done. Helped clarify a few things in the OP for me.

Thanks, but after reading a few more of the OP's comments, I'm not really sure he knows what point he is trying to make. I guess maybe it turns out I was looking for something in his post to comment on, probably because I am working on a study on faith and the righteousness of God.

But anyway, I'm glad it was a help to you even if the OP does not understand.

 

[JohnDB]

hows that ? you see the opportunity for all to be saved is there. if not none of us would be saved... problem is not all will be saved,, some will reject the truth NOTE *** i am not johnDB

You may not be me but ya did just fine.

 

[ezra]

Thanks, but after reading a few more of the OP's comments, I'm not really sure he knows what point he is trying to make. I guess maybe it turns out I was looking for something in his post to comment on, probably because I am working on a study on faith and the righteousness of God.

But anyway, I'm glad it was a help to you even if the OP does not understand.

Beloved57 post like this in carm which might i add is very calvinist and very dogmatic in rules .your not to question the mods or say anything negative . this forum should be appreciated

 

[smaller]

Show me a scripture that says all men have a opportunity to be reconciled to God. Thats on you !

John 5:23, John 13:35, Acts 17:30, Romans 12:17-18, 1 Cor. 9:22, 2 Cor. 9:13, Romans 13:8-10, Gal. 6:10, Eph. 3:9, 1 Thes. 3:12, 1 Tim. 2:1, James 1:5

Small sampling. Could fill several posts with similar.

 

[th1b.taylor]

John 5:23, John 13:35, Acts 17:30, Romans 12:17-18, 1 Cor. 9:22, 2 Cor. 9:13, Romans 13:8-10, Gal. 6:10, Eph. 3:9, 1 Thes. 3:12, 1 Tim. 2:1, James 1:5

Small sampling. Could fill several posts with similar.

AMEN