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A Run on Gas

miamited said:
Hi jasonc

All that is true, but it still isn't fair to ask that person to pay into a national system for only the benefit of people of less wealth. Let the rich man have his $3k SS check. He paid for it and he earned it! You also now have created a new problem. Where do you draw the line? Who has too much money that they shouldn't get a SS check? What if some financial catastrophe should cause them to lose most of their wealth when they are 80? Do they then get to go back and make claims against SS?

My proposal is not at all what you've said here. I don't know where you got that I said anything about increasing age. I have also not proposed decreasing the amount. I agreed with your article that if we don't make any changes, (what they term 'under current law') then yes, SS payments will likely need to be decreased, but that isn't my proposal. My proposal is generally in line with what the Democratic initiative on SS is seeking to do. Increase the tax revenue coming in to SS by increasing the maximum taxable income limit. In doing that, we can continue to pay current benefits until the next need for some sort of adjustment is needed. While I'm not necessarily on board with their proposal in that they also want to give retirees a raise in their SS checks (about $200 is what I read), I'm not wholly against that. I do fine with the $2,400 that they currently give me, but that's because I also have supplemental retirement. If someone is living solely on their SS check, then the $200 increase would likely be a big help for them.

So please, if you're going to state my position for me, state it from the evidence of the testimony that I've already given in this matter. I believe I've written about 10 times that all we need to do is increase the maximum taxable income, which we have now done more than 50 times since the beginning of SS.

God bless,
Ted
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So you don't see that if you increase the age ,yup I can't collect 67 fully .that means no Medicare at all.disability Medicare isn't even close .the things I learned from Medicare itself .

I switched my wife to it and unless you prove she had coverage they penalize you more .

That said in my state ,I know ,disability don't stop the IRS collection .I filed bankruptcy.i lost nothing .

The link said it's insurance if they loose income that much


A wealthy person who can build a house ,level it in a few years and build a bigger house there .can simply use a reverse mortgage .if they economy tanked that bad .the us dollar will be worthless .

A house using 80kwh a month plus a demand is not a small house but ones that have several bathrooms .one such has 23 .

They don't own one house but several.

You are agreeing to forcing them to pay more to simply keep what they have.

That makes no sense .been there with my job pension ,pay more ,get less .

It's telling when the guy who runs that tells his daughter upon hiring ,refuse the pension because the idiots who invest in it won't run it right.i taught you how to save well and I know you .she refused the pension .10 years later the pension is no longer offered .it's a trust .

That is why I don't like pay as you go.the link is an insurance program . Increase in taxes to that also ,with ss,means taxes more on the retires who already collect .mom makes enough to fall into that category. When dad was alive they paid taxes each year .
 
miamited said:
Hi jasonc

I was curious about your statement at the bottom of your page about being nice and courteous, but having a plan to kill everyone you meet. I figured that must be something to do with the link about theaters. So I clicked on the link. Angle Rd in Ft Pierce Fl brings back a lot of memories for me. I used to work at a small finance office there called Eagle Finance and then I worked at the Goodyear downtown that was for years and years managed by Vince Bruno.

Anyway, I didn't see any reference to your mantra there and I was just wondering what might have prompted you to post such a statement?

God bless,
Ted
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A vet doesn't get that ?

Gen madd dogg mattis .
Be king ,be courteous,have a plan to kill everyone you meet .it's how I and all vets had to live .they have sleepers and even the ones that you won't think will might just take you out
 
Which good year ?

Both good years I remember are gone .the one on us1 by avenue h irc is gone and the other is a Wawa on jenkins road and sr 70
 
Hi jasonc

jasonc said:
So why do you fight for a program. Argued as a tax on the nation before the courts and then sold as a safety net when in Germany the govt collects no tax for it's safety net and simply mandates you invest in a private fund and matches it only you can touch it not them .
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I'm guessing you're using the same source for your German retirement knowledge as you're using for your SS knowledge. From pensionfundsonline.co.uk you'll find:

Germany operates a three-pillar pension system, comprised of the mandatory state pension, occupational pensions and private pensions.

The German first pillar is a mandatory state pension system that covers almost all employees. The system is financed through contributions of employees and employers, which finance current pensioners. (oh golly gee, that's exactly what SS does, hmmmm.)

The pension entitlement is based on the number of contribution years, the average level of income and the retirement age.

The contribution rate is equally shared between the employee and the employer with a current annual contribution assessment ceiling of €5,950 per month for old federal states and €5,000 in new federal states, as of 2017.

The legal retirement age is 65 for both men and women but is scheduled to rise to 67 years over a transition period from 2012 to 2029. (oh golly gee, that's about exactly what SS is doing, hmmmm)

The second tier has a total of 18m employees were active members of an occupational pension scheme by the end of 2015. This is just under 60% of people who are employed and subject to social insurance contributions in the country. (oh golly gee, that's exactly what we have here in the states. Just about 60% of working people have an employer sponsored 401k program or some other employer sponsored retirement plan, hmmmm)

The third pillar of the German pension system is made up of the private pension sector. This includes a varying range of individual pension investment plans, and they can be set up through banks and insurance providers to increase an individual’s total German pension entitlement when they reach pension age. (oh golly gee, we have those here too. Hmmmm)

I must say that according to this site, German retirement plans aren't much different than the American SS plan and private retirement plans and employer sponsored retirement plans. Just what exactly is so different again? I didn't see anything in there about the government not collecting any taxes for it's safety net program. In fact what it says is that the German government does in fact collect a contribution rate that is equally shared between the employee and the employer with a current annual contribution assessment ceiling of €5,950 per month for old federal states and €5,000 in new federal states, as of 2017. That is, pretty much to the letter, exactly what SS does in the U.S., although the amounts may be different, of course.

Oddly enough, if you read the article, Germany is suffering the exact same problem that we are. Fewer workers to pay for more retired folks.

But with the German demographic changing towards an aging population, many pensioners now approach their retirement planning more diversely and where possible, build upon all three pillars at once.

Which is exactly what the prudent U.S. worker would be doing. Taking the government supplied retirement income, but also having other pension monies set aside through private and employer provided pension plans. It really doesn't sound like the German retirement system is measurably different than ours.

God bless,
Ted
 
Hi jasonc

jasonc said:
A vet doesn't get that ?

Gen madd dogg mattis .
Be king ,be courteous,have a plan to kill everyone you meet .it's how I and all vets had to live .they have sleepers and even the ones that you won't think will might just take you out
Click to expand...


I think I was fairly clear earlier when you were talking about having your septic issues that I am not a vet. Therefore I wasn't able to give you any information about assistance that the VA might have been able to give you regarding your septic issue.

God bless,
Ted
 
Ok .just thought it was unusual with a vet who collected and didn't know the system .

That answer that
 
jasonc said:
Ok .just thought it was unusual with a vet who collected and didn't know the system .

That answer that
Click to expand...
Hi jasonc

Collected what exactly? Look, I don't mean to be tough on you and I think I understand your position, but as a believer, I try to deal in truth. So, when someone starts off talking about SS going bankrupt or there not being anything for them when they get there, that just isn't true. SS is a good program that, at some point if we live long enough, benefits just about every American citizen. Based on what I read on the German program, there isn't much difference between theirs and ours. Secondly, SS was never expected to be the sole income of retired folks, although it is for many and was for many when the program first started in the 1930's. There were people in the 1930's who had worked hard all of their lives but didn't have any income to rely on when they got to where they couldn't, or didn't want to work all of their lives.

I mean, I'm 66 and I've been basically retired since I was 50. I had a little part time job for a couple of years just to keep me out of my wife's hair, but honestly I felt that I was working to hard for the pittance I was being paid and so I soon left that job. But when I get out of bed in the morning everything kind of creaks and groans and my left knee has to be worked a little to get rid of the arthritis pain and I certainly don't want to have to go to work every day if I don't have to. I rather enjoy having my days to do what I like. I've just finished building a 250sf deck on the back of the house and last year I built a 300sf workshop for all my power tools. I like building and fixing things, but not as a job. Just for my own pleasure and relaxation. My son lives in Texas and 2-3 times a year I can just hop in the car and go visit him whenever I want. I don't have to 'put in' for vacation days.

But SS is a blessing to many, many people and I believe it's a good and valuable resource as we age. Throughout the last 90 years we have had the issue of 'running out of enough money to pay benefits' dozens of times and we will fix it. It can be fixed and it will be fixed and my children's children will get a SS check when they get old, so long as that's still the best retirement plan that we, as a nation, have. Now, maybe between now and then someone will come up with a better plan. We'll see. Heck for 2 years Donald Trump promised us that he had a better and more affordable healthcare plan...so there's always hope, eh?

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited said:
Hi jasonc

Collected what exactly? Look, I don't mean to be tough on you and I think I understand your position, but as a believer, I try to deal in truth. So, when someone starts off talking about SS going bankrupt or there not being anything for them when they get there, that just isn't true. SS is a good program that, at some point if we live long enough, benefits just about every American citizen. Based on what I read on the German program, there isn't much difference between theirs and ours. Secondly, SS was never expected to be the sole income of retired folks, although it is for many and was for many when the program first started in the 1930's. There were people in the 1930's who had worked hard all of their lives but didn't have any income to rely on when they got to where they couldn't, or didn't want to work all of their lives.

I mean, I'm 66 and I've been basically retired since I was 50. I had a little part time job for a couple of years just to keep me out of my wife's hair, but honestly I felt that I was working to hard for the pittance I was being paid and so I soon left that job. But when I get out of bed in the morning everything kind of creaks and groans and my left knee has to be worked a little to get rid of the arthritis pain and I certainly don't want to have to go to work every day if I don't have to. I rather enjoy having my days to do what I like. I've just finished building a 250sf deck on the back of the house and last year I built a 300sf workshop for all my power tools. I like building and fixing things, but not as a job. Just for my own pleasure and relaxation. My son lives in Texas and 2-3 times a year I can just hop in the car and go visit him whenever I want. I don't have to 'put in' for vacation days.

But SS is a blessing to many, many people and I believe it's a good and valuable resource as we age. Throughout the last 90 years we have had the issue of 'running out of enough money to pay benefits' dozens of times and we will fix it. It can be fixed and it will be fixed and my children's children will get a SS check when they get old, so long as that's still the best retirement plan that we, as a nation, have. Now, maybe between now and then someone will come up with a better plan. We'll see. Heck for 2 years Donald Trump promised us that he had a better and more affordable healthcare plan...so there's always hope, eh?

God bless,
Ted
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I have filed chapter 13 .they can't touch retirement income in Florida .

Unless you don't live in your house .they can take only the property you don't claim as a homestead.

I didn't vote for trump.
My issue with ss is exactly what you complained about .gosh tax me more ,reduce my income to simply keep 70 percent of what was owed .

You can't simply tax my grandchild now to have it their fir me and ignore the debt to GDP ratio when.

We owe in to treasuries to Japan 1.21 trillion and China not much lower .are we gonna print out way out .

You collect now .it's likely you will die before I start my retirement.

At some point the ious that the tax system will not be able to find ss.

The govt despite collecting taxes pays from Jan 31 to near oct1 in interest .at some point this will collapse .

So think again that will be there .
 
Since you are familiar with angle road.,to the north of it lies along turnpike feeder road .a place called Lakewood park


Homes there built since the 50s to present can. Be rented for more then your high level of SS. 2500 to 3500 a month .

As that article said .ss doesn't even keep you from.poverty.thise homes are not much bigger then mine .3/2 or a 2/2

I live in a 2/2 by one garage .
 
Imagine that a person should expect a return .I will be dead likely before even getting back what I owed and yes you don't have a right to "your money"



Imagine that being pitched back then to the masses .it would be a problem .
 
miamited said:
All that is true, but it still isn't fair to ask that person to pay into a national system for only the benefit of people of less wealth. Let the rich man have his $3k SS check. He paid for it and he earned it! You also now have created a new problem. Where do you draw the line? Who has too much money that they shouldn't get a SS check? What if some financial catastrophe should cause them to lose most of their wealth when they are 80? Do they then get to go back and make claims against SS?
Click to expand...
This is very true. Define rich. I have experienced times of plenty as well as times of strife. Back in the early 1980's I was single and shared a farmhouse with two other guys. My share of rent was $100.00/month, electric bill was $20.00/month split three ways, we burned wood that we cut ourselves for heat, we had our own well and septic so no additional cost there, and I had no debt except a student loan with payments less than $50.00 per month. At the time, I was making $25,000.00 per year which, according to the Consumer Price Index inflation calculator, translates to about $76,000.00 today. I was situated quite well financially but if you would have asked me if I was rich, I would have said no. In fact, I would have told you that I was living paycheck to paycheck and I actually was and even less. I got paid every two weeks and it was quite common for me to write checks up to four days before my next paycheck was direct deposited into my bank account. I got away with it because, unlike today, it usually took about four days for a check to clear my bank account unless the retailer happened to do their banking at my bank.

I also have a friend that is the CIO of a hospital in Warsaw, WI. I do know that his salary is somewhere close to $300,000.00 per year. He pays roughly $125,000.00 or more in income taxes every year. There have been times when, after filing his income taxes, he owed taxes for one reason or another and the amount he owed was more than my annual income. I can confidently tell you with little doubt that if you were to ask him if he was rich, he would likely say no. His lifestyle fits his income.

What I have learned is the more one has, the more expensive his/her lifestyle tends to be. I would expect that no matter who you ask, rich is probably defined as someone who has more than they do.
 
WIP said:
This is very true. Define rich. I have experienced times of plenty as well as times of strife. Back in the early 1980's I was single and shared a farmhouse with two other guys. My share of rent was $100.00/month, electric bill was $20.00/month split three ways, we burned wood that we cut ourselves for heat, we had our own well and septic so no additional cost there, and I had no debt except a student loan with payments less than $50.00 per month. At the time, I was making $25,000.00 per year which, according to the Consumer Price Index inflation calculator, translates to about $76,000.00 today. I was situated quite well financially but if you would have asked me if I was rich, I would have said no. In fact, I would have told you that I was living paycheck to paycheck and I actually was and even less. I got paid every two weeks and it was quite common for me to write checks up to four days before my next paycheck was direct deposited into my bank account. I got away with it because, unlike today, it usually took about four days for a check to clear my bank account unless the retailer happened to do their banking at my bank.

I also have a friend that is the CIO of a hospital in Warsaw, WI. I do know that his salary is somewhere close to $300,000.00 per year. He pays roughly $125,000.00 or more in income taxes every year. There have been times when, after filing his income taxes, he owed taxes for one reason or another and the amount he owed was more than my annual income. I can confidently tell you with little doubt that if you were to ask him if he was rich, he would likely say no. His lifestyle fits his income.

What I have learned is the more one has, the more expensive his/her lifestyle tends to be. I would expect that no matter who you ask, rich is probably defined as someone who has more than they do.
Click to expand...
Narrow vision we have
 
Hi jasonc

jasonc said:
My issue with ss is exactly what you complained about .gosh tax me more ,reduce my income to simply keep 70 percent of what was owed .
Click to expand...
I don't recall complaining about that. It was, in fact, the very basis of my proposal. Raise the maximum taxable income limit and let's get on with it. It is what SS has been doing for quite some time now. Even in the last few years, every year the MTI for SS has increased a few thousand dollars. This is why the system isn't projected to not have enough money to fund benefits 10 years down the road. The system already has planned, built in increases to handle things till then.

A lot of folks don't understand exactly 'how' SS works. They have this idea that they are, through their employer and employee payroll SS taxes, putting money into a passbook savings account that's going to be their money to take back out years down the road. That isn't how it works and never has. The system has always been set up so that current annual SS revenue, pays current annual benefits. The benefits that I paid in 1970 was providing a SS check for my grandmother and grandfather. The benefits my children are paying every payday are paying for my benefits today. So long as the annual tax receipts cover the annual benefit payments, everything is fine. And right now everything is fine until sometime in the mid 2030's. With the expected annual receipts each year and the expected annual benefits, the OMB figures that SS is running along just fine until about 2035.

Now the OMB is not saying that in 2035 it's all going to be bankrupt and broke and there won't be anything for anyone, which is how some people seem to understand it. No! Not at all. In 2035, if there are no changes made to the revenue side of the equation, as we have done over 50 times in the last 90 years, then benefits will be cut. Instead of a $2,400. check, new retirees will only get a $2,100 check. COLA increases will likely be put on hold and older retirees who live predominantly on their SS will get hurt financially, but they won't just be left with nothing. But it's an easy fix and it's the same fix we've pretty much always used when we come to this threshold, as we have many times before. We have to raise SS revenues and we can do that by either increasing the tax percentage rate, or increasing the MTI. We could increase the rate, but that means that everyone will pay more in SS taxes. Or we could increase the MTI which means that only those wage earners with high incomes will pay more SS tax.

Now, there is one other option and I'm not sure how well it would 'fix' the problem, but instead of paying high wage earners larger checks than the poor bottom of the ladder retiree, we could reverse that thinking. Pay the poor bottom of the ladder retiree a larger SS check because they need it more, and give the high wage earner a smaller check. However, just because someone is considered a high wage earner during their working years doesn't mean that they have saved all their money and invested in private IRA's and Roth accounts. There are likely some high wage earners that spend most of their available money as they are working and when they get to retirement, aren't really a whole lot better off than the poor bottom of the ladder retiree. But that is a possibility to be looked at and see if there's some way to rate 'other' retirement savings that people might have and base their SS check on how much an individual might need it more than the person who has a $2M IRA to draw from the rest of their life.

Hi WIP

WIP said:
This is very true. Define rich.
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My point exactly. Rich is a relative term for most of us. That's why I don't think the idea that the Brookings study has proposed is particularly fair. The rich paid into the system and it just isn't fair to tell them that because they were so successful in life this SS program isn't going to be of any benefit to them. Let them have their share, but of course, it could be adjusted that they don't get as much, but again, then we have to determine who is rich and who isn't and also will be depending on their always remaining rich until they die. You tell someone who retirees at 70 with $3M dollars in investments and savings that they don't get any SS. Then what happens when Bernie Madoff takes off with their money? Or their particular investment portfolio crashes and burns as we're seeing happening more and more each passing day right now.

WIP said:
What I have learned is the more one has, the more expensive his/her lifestyle tends to be. I would expect that no matter who you ask, rich is probably defined as someone who has more than they do.
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I agree wholeheartedly.

God bless,
Ted
 
jasonc said:
Which good year ?

Both good years I remember are gone .the one on us1 by avenue h irc is gone and the other is a Wawa on jenkins road and sr 70
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Hi jasonc

It was the one on US 1. I worked there for about 2 years and then was sent to management training in Atlanta and given a store in Homestead Fl. Vince was a great guy. I remember him predicting the fall of Sears waaaay back in the 80's, although he predicted it would fall faster than it did. The Eagle finance was a small loan store in the shopping center at US 1 and Virginia Ave. Where the Kmart used to be years ago. The regional supervisor was a guy by the name of Larry Lilly and my boss was a Nancy Kastner. Her husband owned a pop clothing store right next door to the loan office. I believe his name was Mike Kastner. I was probably 28 at the time.

God bless,
Ted
 
jasonc said:
I have filed chapter 13 .they can't touch retirement income in Florida .

Unless you don't live in your house .they can take only the property you don't claim as a homestead.

I didn't vote for trump.
My issue with ss is exactly what you complained about .gosh tax me more ,reduce my income to simply keep 70 percent of what was owed .

You can't simply tax my grandchild now to have it their fir me and ignore the debt to GDP ratio when.

We owe in to treasuries to Japan 1.21 trillion and China not much lower .are we gonna print out way out .

You collect now .it's likely you will die before I start my retirement.

At some point the ious that the tax system will not be able to find ss.

The govt despite collecting taxes pays from Jan 31 to near oct1 in interest .at some point this will collapse .

So think again that will be there .
Click to expand...

Hi jasonc

If I may, let me address your issues point by point.

Starting with "You can't simply tax my grandchild now to have it their fir me and ignore the debt to GDP ratio when."

I'm not sure you can end a sentence with the word 'when', but I'm assuming that you meant that to attach to the next point. But yes, the government can and has always been taxing our children to pay for our current SS income benefits. In the beginning of SS under Pres. Franklin Roosevelt, SS was a pay as you go system where current revenues paid current liabilities and it is still operated that way. The very first SS benefit checks were paid from some young persons contribution that month into the system.

Yes, we are indebted to many nations through government bonds. It is something that I would also like to see reduced, but it is also the way many, many, many governments upon the earth operate. About 25% of the UK's debt is held by foreign investors. Japan, Greece, Portugal, Italy and Singapore actually have a higher debt to GDP than the U.S. That's not to say that it is a good thing, but it does say that such debt isn't an immediate destroyer of nations. There are actually very few governments which don't have debt owned by foreign entities, and none of the major nations can claim that.

Yes, I may well be dead before you begin to collect your SS, but trust me, my death won't stop your SS. Just as no one's death before I started drawing SS had any effect on my SS.

SS is a wholly separate system to the tax and budget of the IRS and Federal government financial system. From AARP.org: The facts: The two trust funds that pay out Social Security benefits — one for retirees and their survivors, the other for people with disabilities — have never been part of the federal government's general fund. SS revenues are kept completely separate and apart from general tax funds and are not eligible to be appropriated for other uses. So the ious of the federal government should never affect the viability of the SS program.

Total revenues of the U.S. government run about $4T/year. The interest expense for our national debt in 2021 has been calculated as $413B. Now, I don't know what kind of math your source may be using, but it's highly unlikely that it takes the U.S. revenue collections nearly 10 months to pay the interest debt. Now, maybe they're using GDP, but that's $21T and so it would take even less time to cover the national debt interest measured against GDP. My guess is that your source is likely referring to total debt, and not just the interest on that debt as your statement seems to be saying. Total debt is running at $30T, but debt is not something that is due now, but rather over time.

If I buy a car with a loan, I will have a total debt, if I get a nice car, of probably $45k. But my income is only $40k. So, I'm in the hole as far as debt is concerned. But that $45k debt is spread out over 5 years. Oh, well now I'm in fine shape because over the 5 years I will have made $200k. So, while the total debt of the U.S. government may be $30T, it is spread out over several years to be repaid. Some treasury notes are for a 30 year period. That means that for that $1M dollar treasury note of debt, the government has 30 years to repay it. In that period of time, based on current revenue collections, the U.S. government will have taken in $120T. Oh well, now that $30T in debt doesn't look so bad, eh. But yes, it would be nice to see the country draw down on it's debt payments because that interest money could be used for better things.

So, I have thought again, and I repeat again. If there is still a SS tax, then SS will still be here. If the very worst happens and the U.S. government implodes, then it isn't going to matter much whether or not anyone has any money.

God bless,
Ted
 
jasonc said:
www.tumblr.com

Untitled

www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com

One of many places I photo in st.lucie county .the old speak easy ,aka mama sagy's lounge
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Hi jasonc

I'm not familiar with it. I know I used to buy hot boiled peanuts from some guy on the way out to the beach that had a 55 gal drum boiling with peanuts. Man, those were good boiled peanuts. I like the fresh ones better than the store bought. The store bought tend to get mushy from sitting around too long. I bought a Toyota Celica Sunchaser from the dealership there in south Ft. Pierce. That was one of the first ones they'd made and it was a cool car. Had a two piece convertible system. A targa top across the two front seats, then flat roll bar assembly and then the back could be put down like a regular convertible top.https://images.buysellsearch.com/image/orig/6ae44ecf07fb0945885c236642c91037/1980-toyota-celica-st-cars-in-salt-lake-city-ut.jpg

God bless,
Ted
 
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