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Abortion

stovebolts

stovebolts

Member
I was thinking about abortion the other day, and before I begin, I have to say why.

When I was much younger, I had gotten a woman pregnant. Over all, it was a bad situation any way you looked at it. Neither of us really wanted an abortion, but we justified it because our culture taught us that it wasn't really a human being and our peers affirmed this, so that made it ok. We were taught this idea in our Science classes in school and told that it was just a mass of cells. It wasn't really a human being. Armored with this knowledge and affirmed by our peers, we were able to justify the abortion.

Ironically, this propaganda is being spread mostly by Atheist. Planned Parenthood is a prime example. But what I also discovered, is that most modern Atheists actually converted from Christianity and want to eradicate Christianity as a whole.

The Atheist would have you believe that your born, you die and that's it. Game over. They feel a sense of freedom within this view. A freedom to regulate their own morality and honestly that scares me.

It is no wonder they ascribe to abortion, and if you notice, Planned Parenthood generally serves the poor,and is located in poor neighborhoods.

Nature shows us that the weak are destroyed and while the strong survive. Hitler is proof of this as he murdered millions of fellow humans while I believe he honestly believed he was advancing the human race as he eliminated the weaker tribe and pushed for a genetically perfect nation to rule the world.

So I see this push within our society here in the USA to numb our thoughts and view of what a fetus is as they affirm that it really isn't a human being. This view makes it easy to kill, and make no doubt that it is we who kill the fetus.

This reminds me of a story I was recently told. I do not know the validity of it, but I believe it was India who outlawed ultra sounds because if the child was a girl, the child was aborted since girls are unwanted. As a result, many girls are named "unwanted" when they are born simply becsue of their gender. And it causes me to ask the next question.

If we can kill an innocent human being with little regard for it's life, what's the next step and how easy will it be to simply eliminate those we don't feel are productive?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jut to clarify,
What I see as similarities between what Planned Parenthood try to accomplish with Abortion and what Hitler did, was first they minimized a life. They looked at a part of the human race and claimed it was not worth anything, and then made the leap that it wasn't really human. In essence, through propaganda they dehumanized a portion of humanity to justify murder.

They justify this view by making a case that it is better for humanity as a whole.

The result is only the strongest, most fit survive.

Face it, if your a teenage from a broken home and you find out your pregnant, it's a monumental task to keep that child. Chances are, that child will end up being very dysfunctional and a burden on society. Simply put, you're not fit to be a parent, thus, you don't have to be a parent.
 
jeff what you speak about is eugenics and i do see ppl at one time doing that to blacks and hispanics now its all races.

without getting into the science debate here. its part of what darwin wanted. the old name of the origin of species does include and the fight for survival of the races.

but only is listed as origin of the species. a coincidence? probably not.
 
Jeff

Like did you just put that together yourself or were you waiting for me to come along and point out that is the exact reason Planned Parenthood was created?

The founder of PP was a racist and she has books published (and you can go get them) and they speak of how she wanted to remove blacks from the world. She was a big fan of Hitler and Hitler even knew of her.

Margaret Sanger is her name...
 
Jason, thanks for reminding me of eugenics. It's a word I recently learned of, but still don't understand all of it's implications.

Pard,

It's a mixed bag. When we had our abortion, we had heard bad things about Planned Parenthood. But when your a teenager you don't really concern yourself with that kind of stuff.

I think another thing is this. I've avoided these kinds of topics because it causes me to reflect, and that isn't always too easy.

One thing it does though, is it really kind of makes me angry because bought into the lie. And when I think about what Jesus did in his anger, he did things that made things better.

So I'm learning about this, and I"m seeing the connection between eugenics and where true atheism can lead one to. And I'd like to talk and learn about it in a safe and open environment.
 
There are only two ways of looking at the world.

1. There is a creator and we are obligated to do what He says.

2. Nothing existed, then it blew up and became everything. This in turn became planets and people. We have no obligation other than to get as much and whatever we can for ourselves before we die.

The Christian is like a man who us asleep in the back seat of a speeding car. When he awakes, he sees someone he trusts driving and can relax.

The unsaved man is like one who is asleep in the back seat of a speeding car and upon waking sees no one and frantically climbs to get control of the wheel.

This schism shows itself in many ways. In politics there are those who produce and those who consume. The who consume can be called parasites. Those who produce can be called tax payers. Just as many Germans resent paying for the foolishness of the Greeks, many tax payers object to sending checks to those who "occupy wall street".

Everything that happens in this world is done by those "eager to do the will of their father" (only so far as they are allowed by God).
 
(yū-jĕn'ĭks)
pron.gif

n. (used with a sing. verb)
The study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding.


Reads to my simple mind about like what lucifer did wanting to be as God and the tower of Babble..


​
 
That's a great start Reba.

I don't want to jump to the wrong conclusions, so I'm going to be up front and try and keep an open mind.

But it seems I've heard a lot lately in the past few years about population control, or how the population is growing at such a rapid rate. And I don't want to connect dots that shouldn't be connected, but it does cause me to really look at why Planned Parenthood is in the neighborhoods that they are in.

I mean, it makes sense that a young prostitute probably isn't going to be the best mother, and I'm not saying that she can't be. But if one were to look at a prostitute as a worthless contributor to society, it would seem like a logical connection to try and suppress her offspring.
 
Stove you have studied/looked at the history of planned parent hood? Finding the truth is not easy the slants are heavy in both directions.
 
Hi Reba,

Not really. Like I told Pard, I'm speaking from bits and pieces that I've heard through the years because I've avoided it for so long.

I'd like to learn about it. Where do we start?

Thanks!
 
The start is easy in idea and a bit harder in implementation.

You need to read the various works of those who started this stuff. They began their careers in the "Progressive Era" which is a period in our history where many "progessives" were very vocal about their beliefs. They wrote many publications on the matter and were not prone to using vieled ideas and innuendos. They cut to the chase and that was that.

Google Books offers many of Sanger's publications free of charge. Reading them would be a good place to start. Another interesting character (in that he is alive and influential) is John Holdren. He was the Science czar for Obama and back in the day he co-authored a textbook for college students that advocated the use of abortion and forced sterilization to control the world's population. Another of his ideas was to introduce vast amounts of estrogen into the water supplies. This would effectivly prevent males from being as "potent" and thus limit the number of children.

Would it be possible to do this in a place that is limited in who can post? As this will surely bring lots of people out of the woodwork to derail or little project.
 
What society says and what God has already said are two different things as this Bible is not socially acceptable nor can it ever be by mans logic so who are we going to believe, what society says or what God has already said in his word.

The Bible never specifically addresses the issue of abortion. However, there are numerous teachings in Scripture that make it abundantly clear what God’s view of abortion is. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He forms us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty—death—for someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb to be as human as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6).

The first argument that always arises against the Christian stance on abortion is “What about cases of rape and/or incest?†As horrible as it would be to become pregnant as a result of rape and/or incest, is the murder of a baby the answer? Two wrongs do not make a right. The child who is a result of rape/incest could be given in adoption to a loving family unable to have children on their own, or the child could be raised by its mother. Again, the baby is completely innocent and should not be punished for the evil acts of its father.

The second argument that usually arises against the Christian stance on abortion is “What about when the life of the mother is at risk?†Honestly, this is the most difficult question to answer on the issue of abortion. First, let’s remember that this situation is the reason behind less than one-tenth of one percent of the abortions done in the world today. Far more women have an abortion for convenience than women who have an abortion to save their own lives. Second, let’s remember that God is a God of miracles. He can preserve the life of a mother and a child despite all the medical odds being against it. Ultimately, though, this question can only be decided between a husband, wife, and God. Any couple facing this extremely difficult situation should pray to the Lord for wisdom (James 1:5) as to what He would have them to do.

Over 95 percent of the abortions performed today involve women who simply do not want to have a baby. Less than 5 percent of abortions are for the reasons of rape, incest, or the mother's health at risk. Even in the more difficult 5 percent of instances, abortion should never be the first option. The life of a human being in the womb is worth every effort to allow the child to be born.

For those who have had an abortion, remember that the sin of abortion is no less forgivable than any other sin. Through faith in Christ, all sins can be forgiven (John 3:16; Romans 8:1; Colossians 1:14). A woman who has had an abortion, a man who has encouraged an abortion, or even a doctor who has performed one—can all be forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
Hey Pard.

Maybe I don't fully understand what a progressive is. I mean, I've not really delved in that much because I've put so much focus on my biblical studies, that I've kind of put the world on hold.

What would you say a progressive's core values are just to help me out a bit?

Thanks!
 
It's hard to summerize as it is really an entire mentality/ideology.

Basically it is the idea of "streamlining" everything from politics and government to social issues and religion. Initially they were well thought of but by the end of the 1920s labeling yourself as a "Progressive" was as bad as labeling yourself as a "Communist" during the 50s and 60s. They eventually morphed into what we know today as a "liberal" and ironically a modern-day "progressive" (Hilary Clinton being the first to trully "revive" that term in our modern polital arena).

Progressive policy includes social welfare polices akin and far surpassing those of many of the socialist countries in Europe. It views the government as a means on both job creation and economic caretaker.

Although FDR used a different label for himself he was a progressive along with his "New Deal".

They also "revolutionized" the concept of society by bring a scientific element to it. Towards the end they were getting into things like population control and they actually preluded to Hitler's concept of the perfect race. It is at this point that the American population really grew tired of their ideas and finally outed them from the political arena.

I guess to sum it up they are basically liberals who view the government as the ultimate caretaker of society and focus less on indivuals and more on the concept of "humankind" (ie they are very willing to over look the means in order to reach a specific ends).
 
Hi for his glory,

I think you and I are reading the same bible in about the same way :yes

I think the only thing that I would add, is that when it comes to killing people in the bible, it is clearly forbidden unless one's very life is threatened, or another innocent life is threatened. In that case, we are called to protect, even if that means killing the murderer.

Like yourself, what I don't agree with is somebody having an abortion based on their capacity or want to support that child because I see that child as an innocent person and is not in any way risking the life of the mother. What it comes down to, even in my case was about being selfish. I didn't want to be burdened with my mistake, and I'm kinda sad that I held the view back then that a child would have been a burden.
 
Stove i would not trust the internet for this information... except maybe to locate old books on the subject.

Margaret Sanger (1883-1966) an old book on her to get what she truly said. I say old because of the history revision.

Many of the statements attributed to her are very ugly. Racial cleansing etc... I do not believe only the left does some revisionist history.

When we see the location of the 'clinics' the thoughts are strong..
 
reba said:
Stove i would not trust the internet for this information... except maybe to locate old books on the subject.

Margaret Sanger (1883-1966) an old book on her to get what she truly said. I say old because of the history revision.

Many of the statements attributed to her are very ugly. Racial cleansing etc... I do not believe only the left does some revisionist history.

When we see the location of the 'clinics' the thoughts are strong..
Click to expand...
Reba,

Do some more searching and look beyond Sanger. There is a woman's name, it escapes me now, who came into the movement before Sanger. But for some reason, Sanger gets all the attention.

I'll do a search of my older posts later. I posted about this in the past.
 
My wife had an abortion when we were "dating". In other words, our relationship at the time was based on lust. We were also unrepentant sinners. To make a long story short:

We justified ourselves by claiming our poor choices would be "unfair" to the child and a "burden" on our already rocky relationship (she cheated/drank heavily). This isn't to say that I was not complicit in terminating the pregnancy. I am equally (if not more) guilty.

Anyway, my wife wrote a song about this particular experience in her life/our relationship.

COMPROMISE

(verse 1)
Your melodies seep
Into my heart and rip it from my chest
I'm taken back
To memories I try hard to forget
Every word
That leaves your lips is more than I can take
I try to fight
The tears from falling I was your mistake

(chorus)
I want it all to go away but, nothing will suffice
I tried to fill the void with Sailor Jerry's over ice
How can you still love someone who always let you down?
You tried to show me that you cared with every compromise

(verse 2)
I couldn't let
It get that far. I could let you in
My walls were built
Up way too high and they just wouldn't give
You say that I'm
Forgiven still, I cannot forget
The many nights
I tortured you by drinking with cheap friends

(bridge)
Some may not agree
And call it a convenience
Let's see you go through it
Then tell me how you're feeling
I've never been the best but, I have never tried
I'm only starting to reveal what's been held inside

(verse 3)
I'd tell you what
I did that night, the parts that were not blurred
When something un-
Expected abruptly occurred
So I made my
Decision with you standing by my side
I brought this all
Upon myself, there was nowhere to hide

(chorus)
I want it all to go away but, nothing will suffice
I tried to fill the void with Sailor Jerry's over ice
How can you still love someone who always let you down?
You tried to show me that you cared with every compromise
Click to expand...
 
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