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Abortion

Thanks for the link Vic!

This kinda caught my eye.

In spite of the all too many perverted and degenerating phases of sex life, which exist at present, it is still true that there has been a wonderful evolution that is perfectly logical, natural and desirable -- that is that recognition of the value of other precious results from the sex relation beside children, -- the physcological [sic] emotional and spiritual re[l]ations -- and -- also if I may venture to use that term without being misunderstood the moral reaction [sic].
For the highly developed civilized human being there is no such thing as natural sex relations, that is, in the animal sense. We do not -- after the simple manner of the animals -- have a mating season. We do not have an annual baby. It would be anything but ideal to do so. But instead we expand our creative impulses into other channels which are more beneficial and enjoyable for the race. We find creative scope in the whole side field of science art and community life. And along with this expansion we are developing a conscious and unashamed appreciation of the invaluable reactions upon the individual of the sex relation apart from the question of children.

When I read it, it almost sounds selfish. I read it as, "Have sex at the expense of your baby" and is along the lines of "if it feels good, it must be right".

So now responsible sex has been minimized to a pill or other device.... :shame
 
cough, darwin was a racist and the early teachings of evolution showed early hominid to man transitionials as a black male in appearence.this too influenced the eugenics movement and some say darwin was also behind it.

and uh chinas one man policy is such. population control.

jeff, aig and icr will have this stuff readily available for you. but before the pro-choicer and evos come on board. does it make sense to kill the sick these days? you wouldnt think of my exucting my grandpa the day he has been diagnosed with alzhemiers would you?or what about just killing those hungry africans, better to to mass kill them then to let them suffer. funny thing is margaret sanger thinks like this.

oh wait thats called euthanasia. its cheaper to kill em then to heal them. and dont think some dont look at the elderly that way.
 
Jason,
My eyes are starting to open... Never would have believed what I'm hearing Atheists say.

It's actually sad that pebbles would have her own grandmother put down simply because she finds no value in her after her illness.

Personally, I find the value as having the opportunity to reach out to somebody, to care for somebody and to love somebody that may not be able to love you back.

Pebbles said:
Humans ARE machines The biology that drives us and control us, is materialistic and mechanistic, No supernatural intervention is required to make us work.

What makes us INDIVIDUALS is our minds through the mechanism of our brain. Our processing and self-awareness, Those emotions and the ablitity to relate to one another through those emotions. without that we are just meat.

You would have to really hate yourself to call yourself not much more than a piece of meat.
 
Maybe I don't fully understand what a progressive is.

A German historian once defined political liberalism as secularized Christianity.

There was a social movement that started in the second half of the Nineteenth century. In an environment of mass media (magazines and newspapers) Satan was able to greatly accelerate his collectivization efforts. The inventions of the telegraph, railroad, along with the seemingly endless introduction of new machines created an environment where people were easily seeing themselves as in control of their own destiny.

This period can be called Modern and was used by Satan to get people to accept his ideas of collectivism such as socialism, communism and fascism.

In the US marginal Christians began to see government as a much more effective tool to use to achieve the "perfection" of mankind. Once you take Christ out of Christianity, all you have left is a feeling that you need to "do good" without knowing exactly what that is or why you are doing it.

Historical progressivism could be seen from the 1880s until the League of Nations. It then morphed into New Deal Liberalism under FDR.

The core of progressivism is the belief that humans are not only perfectible, but able to achieve this themselves. The attraction is to be one of the controllers rather than one of the controlled.

If you want to see what God says about collectivism, read what He says at the Tower of Babel.
 
Thanks Tim, that really gets me thinking.

I really feel as if I've been living under a rock most of my life...

thanks!
 
My wife had an abortion when we were "dating". In other words, our relationship at the time was based on lust. We were also unrepentant sinners. To make a long story short:

We justified ourselves by claiming our poor choices would be "unfair" to the child and a "burden" on our already rocky relationship (she cheated/drank heavily). This isn't to say that I was not complicit in terminating the pregnancy. I am equally (if not more) guilty.

Anyway, my wife wrote a song about this particular experience in her life/our relationship.

Wow, this brought tears to my own eyes reading this as it brought back a lot of not so good things in my past and it still blows me away that God thought I was worth saving as his love is so unconditional. My husband and I could never have children and adoption was out of the question for we could not qualify because we did not make enough money according to their guidelines and to me that is so wrong when there are so many children without good homes and we have a home and heart for these children.
 
Hi for his glory,

I think you and I are reading the same bible in about the same way :yes

I think the only thing that I would add, is that when it comes to killing people in the bible, it is clearly forbidden unless one's very life is threatened, or another innocent life is threatened. In that case, we are called to protect, even if that means killing the murderer.

Like yourself, what I don't agree with is somebody having an abortion based on their capacity or want to support that child because I see that child as an innocent person and is not in any way risking the life of the mother. What it comes down to, even in my case was about being selfish. I didn't want to be burdened with my mistake, and I'm kinda sad that I held the view back then that a child would have been a burden.

God always allows the enemy to be slain.
 
God always allows the enemy to be slain.

I agree.

I lost my first born daughter when she was around 4 months old. A part of me was slain that day. I felt as if the part of me that murdered my own unborn child years early through the abortion had been slain.
 
Wow, this brought tears to my own eyes reading this as it brought back a lot of not so good things in my past and it still blows me away that God thought I was worth saving as his love is so unconditional. My husband and I could never have children and adoption was out of the question for we could not qualify because we did not make enough money according to their guidelines and to me that is so wrong when there are so many children without good homes and we have a home and heart for these children.

This brings up a good point. Why is it so easy to get an abortion, but so hard to adopt a child?
 
Conspiracy? :D

I honestly don't know why. But it is a good question. I guess because the company has to make sure that the adopting parents are not going to harm the child because if they do than that company is in deep trouble!
 
Hitler is a sketchy exsample to bring up because I could just as easily say he was a catholic (Although I hasten to add this would be equally an unfair compairison.)

To quote him himself.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." He then gose onto use biblical stories to justify his anti-semitic behaviour using the parable of jesus throwing the money changers out of the temple.“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

you don't need to point it out I'm sure you'd be banging your head against a table in frustration at how disturbed his views are, Equally when he says "survival of the fittest" It's not even close what an evolutionary biologist is talking about.

Fittest is NOT the strongest. Fittest refers to the most sucessful and well adapted for their local niche enviroment not universally better than all others moreover it happens no matter what. So no their is no eugenics conspiracy or agenda.

If you want to know WHY planned parenthood is positioned in the poorest communities it's because you've forgotten or didn't know that they also offer contraception, STD checks and womens health checks. These begin facilities that really should be offered to the poorest who lack the means to access alot of these important services.
 
Pebbles,
I'd like to know where you got that Hitler quote. I'd like to read the rest of it if you have a link. I'm just gathering information, which is partially why I started this thread.

As far as Planned Parenthood, I'll be honest and say I really don't know much about them except I associate them with abortion. So much to learn I'm really behind.

In Spokane Washington, you were sent to the Health Department for aids testing and they also offered STD tests and contraceptives. But they didn't offer abortions.

In our little community, we don't have a Planned Parenthood. But we do have a group of churches that started a Pregnancy Resource Center that helps everyone regardless of religion etc while advocating for the unborn child. Last year they saved over 50 children from being aborted (I don't have the numbers in front of me, we were told at a locak 5k fundraiser earlier this year).
 
Jason,
My eyes are starting to open... Never would have believed what I'm hearing Atheists say.

It's actually sad that pebbles would have her own grandmother put down simply because she finds no value in her after her illness.

Personally, I find the value as having the opportunity to reach out to somebody, to care for somebody and to love somebody that may not be able to love you back.



You would have to really hate yourself to call yourself not much more than a piece of meat.

often the final stages of alzhemiers are just that. i hope you know my grandpa died not far from that state.

and he forgot all of his grandkids. to this day i never am able to say goodbye to him. i have given that to the lord. he died nearly twenty years ago when i was in basic training.
 
That particular quote was from.
Adolf Hitler, speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942) ISBN 0-598-75894-1
 
what did darwin mean when he said the negroes were of the lower races and closest to the apes?

and what exactly does preservation of the favoured of the races mean?


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2009/2009-h/2009-h.htm
i googled that to check myself

The advancement of the welfare of mankind is a most intricate problem: all ought to refrain from marriage who cannot avoid abject poverty for their children; for poverty is not only a great evil, but tends to its own increase by leading to recklessness in marriage. On the other hand, as Mr. Galton has remarked, if the prudent avoid marriage, whilst the reckless marry, the inferior members tend to supplant the better members of society. Man, like every other animal, has no doubt advanced to his present high condition through a struggle for existence consequent on his rapid multiplication; and if he is to advance still higher, it is to be feared that he must remain subject to a severe struggle. Otherwise he would sink into indolence, and the more gifted men would not be more successful in the battle of life than the less gifted. Hence our natural rate of increase, though leading to many and obvious evils, must not be greatly diminished by any means. There should be open competition for all men; and the most able should not be prevented by laws or customs from succeeding best and rearing the largest number of offspring. Important as the struggle for existence has been and even still is, yet as far as the highest part of man's nature is concerned there are other agencies more important. For the moral qualities are advanced, either directly or indirectly, much more through the effects of habit, the reasoning powers, instruction, religion, &c., than through natural selection; though to this latter agency may be safely attributed the social instincts, which afforded the basis for the development of the moral sense.

http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-descent-of-man/chapter-21.html
 
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