According to Jesus...

[Guest]

What is your point? Paul did not kill nor did he harm anyone, he only escaped.

So your claim is that pacifism is ONLY ABOUT not killing ?
I think one of us has read the wrong definition here.
TRUE pacifism isnt just about WORDS, gent...its a WAY OF LIFE!
No TRUE pacifist AGGRESSIVELY argues his case.
A TRUE pacifist backs down and lets the opponent believe what he wants to believe.
Thus the reason why I know there are NO TRUE pacifists on this website.

 

[shad]

please shad ,so we shouldnt care about the "dead".

That is not my word but Jesus'. We should know when to heed His advice and warnings. I use all His words to defend His word.

after all if you take it mean what you claim it to be, why then do we bury or concern ourselves with the law.dead men write those.

I am only following what Jesus says. You should too, instead of trying so hard to justify your sinful practices.

 

[Guest]

That is not my word but Jesus'.

yeah....you use this when it suits you but when it doesnt you simply ignore it ;)

This isnt MY words but Jesus'

(Mat 5:42 KJV) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

(Luk 6:30 KJV) Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

I asked you for $5000.
Do you OBEY Jesus plain words or do you context your way out of obeying ?

The pathetic thing here is that by NOT paying you show us that you DONT actually believe in your own method of interpretation. ;)

We should know when to heed His advice and warnings. I use all His words to defend His word.

No you dont.
If you did you wouldnt be IGNORING what has been posted here.

I am only following what Jesus says.

No...youre not.....or Id have my check by now...

(Mat 5:42 KJV) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

(Luk 6:30 KJV) Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

The funny thing here is EVEN IF you ignore me, the READERS ARENT.

You should too, instead of trying so hard to justify your sinful practices.

PROVE that it is sin to defend the innocent.
Till you do youre wasting your time posting this nonsense

 

[jasoncran]

a true pacifist wont defend himself at all. not even with non lethal means.

shad, a man has claimed that you need to pay him some money, didnt jesus say something on that.

i do care for the "dead" as they are also known as the lost. if you look at whom that person was saying that, that was a test not a commandment

would god put helping a total stranger over feeding or nurturing the family?

this verse deals with that
if a men taketh no care of his own , he is worse than an infidel(unbeliever)
the gent that told the lord that he needed to bury his father was using that not to serve the lord. if he said yes, we can be sure that the lord would have told him go and serve me by following my commandments and and bury your father.

 

[watchman F]

the bible was put together by agustine. that was francis' point! if you say that he is a liar then what book is truly supposed to be there in that bible of yours.

i have alot of problems with the rcc doctrine, but we cant throw away all of those saints.

some are godly, would say the same of mother teresa?

Did Augustine write the bible? No

 

[watchman F]

the bible was put together by agustine. that was francis' point! if you say that he is a liar then what book is truly supposed to be there in that bible of yours.

i have alot of problems with the rcc doctrine, but we cant throw away all of those saints.

some are godly, would say the same of mother teresa?

Did Augustine write the bible? No

Seems you both incorrect, and i accept Jeromes version of the cannon not Augustines.

The Christian canon, including the New Testament canon, assumed something like its present form under the labors of Augustine and Jerome toward the close of the fourth century. St. Augustine’s canon contained all of the books now contained in the Old and New Testaments, excepting Lamentations, which was excluded. It contained, in addition to these, the apocryphal pieces belonging to Daniel, and the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, and First and Second Maccabees.

St. Jerome's canon contained Lamentations, which Augustine's canon excluded, and omitted Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, and First and Second Maccabees, which Augustine's included. Roman Catholics accept the canon of Augustine, including Lamentations; Protestants, generally, accept the canon of Jerome.

 

[Guest]

a true pacifist wont defend himself at all. not even with non lethal means.

Ive known true pacifists, which is a way of life, not just lip service as we see with some, and they dont like confrontation in ANY way at all.
They certainly would not be on a forum like this ARGUING pacifism. They are VERY laid back and non-aggressive and when they see that you dont like what theyre saying they simply shut up about it.

This is another reason why we know that Jesus WASNT a pacifist.
He wasnt even 'laid back' or non-aggressive. He went INTO place where He already KNEW was going to BE confrontation...TRUE pacifists dont go looking for trouble or conflict .

shad, a man has claimed that you need to pay him some money, didnt jesus say something on that.

Its really just a point being made.
Ive found many who say things like 'Im just quoting Jesus'.....but if that logic worked then they should pay up since thats what Jesus SAID.

Of course He didnt mean it in the way Im USING it....it was given in a context....just as shads scripture and all the rest we are providing here is given in a context.
Without context what is written can be perverted into just about anything imaginable.....

 

[Guest]

Pacifism

Pacifism is the moral principle that the use of force is wrong for any reason. This applies to both the initiation of force, as well as defensive or retaliatory force. If your life is being threatened, pacifism holds that you should not defend yourself. If someone has stolen from you, pacifism holds that you should not retrieve your property. If someone has murdered other people, pacifism holds that nothing should be done about it. Pacifism is the moral principle that attempts to permanently disarm its practitioners, leaving them helpless and at the mercy of any thug.

Some people accept pacifism due to a faulty inductive process. They notice that force can be used for evil, and generalize it believing that force is only used for evil. Others accept pacifism as a moral commandment or duty. There is no rational reason to accept pacifism, and its consequences are deadly. This ethical premise is destructive to one's life and values. It makes morality oppose self-interest, and requires the choice of either being good, or being alive.

Pacifism requires one to withhold the use of force. It is thought that if practiced by everyone, the world would be a better place, making life easier to live. This is mistaken, though. A single thug could destroy any society based on pacifism. Since nobody could respond with equal force, even in self-defense or the defense of their loved ones, the thug would be constantly rewarded for his acts. He could rob, steal, or murder, and nobody could stop him. It would encourage others to act this way as well, since nobody would be willing to stop them. But one cannot live under such circumstances. One's life would be at the mercy of the worst people alive.

Pacifists are able to survive in as far as either they abandon this faulty principle, or others dismiss it. Without the use of retaliatory force, they could not survive against the threat of other people. A lone pacifist in a society willing to enact justice can survive at the expense of his fellow citizens. It is to them that his survival is maintained. It is his ethical system that makes him dependent on the good will of others.

http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/E ... ifism.html

....

 

[jasoncran]

on st.jerome a catholic, buy the way.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/jerome.html

interesting. the vulgate was used for years by the rcc.if i recall correctly.

 

[jasoncran]

on st.jerome a catholic, buy the way.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/jerome.html

interesting. the vulgate was used for years by the rcc.if i recall correctly.

more on st.jerome.

But when the Christian faith was threatened Jerome could not be silent. While at Rome in the time of Pope Damasus, he had composed a book on the perpetual virginity of the Virgin Mary against one Helvidius, who had maintained that Mary had not remained always a virgin but had had other children by St. Joseph, after the birth of Christ. This and similar ideas were now again put forward by a certain Jovinian, who had been a monk. Paula's son-in-law, Pammachius, sent some of this heretical writing to Jerome, and he, in 393, wrote two books against Jovinian. In the first he described the excellence of virginity. The books were written in Jerome's vehement style and there were expressions in them which seemed lacking in respect for honorable matrimony. Pammachius informed Jerome of the offense which he and many others at Rome had taken at them. Thereupon Jerome composed his , sometimes called his third book against Jovinian, in which he showed by quoting from his own earlier works that he regarded marriage as a good and honorable state and did not condemn even a second or a third marriage


so i guess he's out! as we know that jerome from this believed in the perpetual viriginity of mary. which , no offense to joe. isnt supported by the bible. so that means jerome like augustine can be full of errs.

for the record i have never claimed that augustine got it all right, only that we cant throw all of his works away.

 

[Guest]

Maybe we could add it as grounds for divorce too.

"Your honor....my husband is a big chicken who, when he was attacked, pushed me in the way of the attacker and ran screaming from the house like a frightened little girlie man"

 

[jasoncran]

uh, news flash augustine and jerome are contempories, and the rcc does use the vulgate as well.

http://stmarymagdaleneflint.org/the_vul ... erome.html

thus bringing my point, we cant throw away neither of these men.

i havent reasearch much into this, so i will concede to those more able to demonstrate the early founders of the faith which book. it seems that the bible then had quite a few versions.

i being a protestant would read the version that came from the vulgate.

does that mean all of those guys were wrong on thier thinking. we do well to look at all sides before saying that the bible compilers were saved or unsaved.
its rather a difficult subject for me and i think cyberjosh is best suited to deal with this.

 

[shad]

a true pacifist wont defend himself at all. not even with non lethal means.

I dont care what a true pacifist is. I only follow what Jesus says.

shad, a man has claimed that you need to pay him some money, didnt jesus say something on that.

Off topic.

i do care for the "dead" as they are also known as the lost. if you look at whom that person was saying that, that was a test not a commandment

I do too. that's why it is important to know how to discern what the Bible says within context. It seems you are misusing the word.

would god put helping a total stranger over feeding or nurturing the family?

His followers should help anyone in need.

 

[jasoncran]

not if the family is gonna go without.

we arent to feed the homeless at the same neglect the spouse or children now are we.

 

[Guest]

I dont care what a true pacifist is. I only follow what Jesus says.

No.....ya dont.....or Id have my check by now....

(Mat 5:42 KJV) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

(Luk 6:30 KJV) Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

[quote:2a44yra7]shad, a man has claimed that you need to pay him some money, didnt jesus say something on that.

Off topic.[/quote:2a44yra7]Of course it is...as I said, when the PLAIN word of God is turned on YOU with YOUR pitiful interpretation method you WILL DODGE and get out of OBEYING it.
Thank you for showing the READERS of this thread that you dont actually STAND BEHIND anything you preach nor do you BELIEVE in your own method of interpretation ....which is exactly what I intended to expose about your error and your views.

 

[Guest]

I do too. that's why it is important to know how to discern what the Bible says within context. It seems you are misusing the word.

Thats a laugh.
The CONTEXT in the scriptures YOU have quoted here are Jesus TEACHING HARDHEARTED JEWS....teaching them to NOT HATE their neighbors.
YOU twist that CONTEXT into Jesus saying 'stand back and watch your wives be slaughtered' to men who DONT hate their neighbors.

Hearing you talk about context and anyone else misusing Gods word reallly makes me chuckle...

His followers should help anyone in need.

I agree.
I need $5000 from you....payments are acceptable....

 

[shad]

we arent to feed the homeless at the same neglect the spouse or children now are we.

We can help the needy without neglecting our family.

 

[Guest]

we arent to feed the homeless at the same neglect the spouse or children now are we.

We can help the needy without neglecting our family.

And a single mother working 50 hours a week just to pay the bills ?

What YOU may be able to do doesnt in any way show what anyone else may be able to do.

 

[jasoncran]

we arent to feed the homeless at the same neglect the spouse or children now are we.

We can help the needy without neglecting our family.

hmm my bro cant, he is losing his house.

of course that is a long story. but persons like him cant, and he has kids and is divorced.

 

[shad]

we arent to feed the homeless at the same neglect the spouse or children now are we.

We can help the needy without neglecting our family.

hmm my bro cant, he is losing his house.

of course that is a long story. but persons like him cant, and he has kids and is divorced.

We cannot help anyone if our material standard is as high as the secular world. Jesus' followers should not have high standards like the rest of the world if you want be faith as Jesus says. You see how you make excuses in other areas too? Do you remember the account of poor old lady in New Testament? What did Jesus say about her?