Adam Was Not Deceived, But Eve Was...

[Brother Mike]

Re-phrase it how. I'm curious of how women think.

Women can think? Now I am confused about the question.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

most jews don't take that part of genesis allegorical if it was then the entire torah with ALL feasts would be a such. this would affect us in that we line up easter with the peshac moon! its always a week off that!

accursed greeks! gah.god is god he could have programmed adam to know a certain amount and allowed him to learn the rest.please no liliths!

 

[Edward]

Everyone plays the blame game out of fear. Right? Love for someone overcomes that fear,

One would think so.

Adam threw his wife under the bus, then blamed God for even sending her to him... "The women YOU made."

Yeah, it would seem so. The sin was already in him at this point and was having an effect on him. Grasping at straws, pointing fingers...lying.

Also, when the commandment was given, Eve had not been created yet. God gave the commandment to Adam, not Eve.

That's a good point, but surely Eve knew that she was to be submissive to her husband? That they had talked about it? They had one commandment to follow! The scripture is silent on this and yet it sort of stands to reason that she probably knew that she wasn't supposed to touch or eat it, deceived or not. I wish there was more details about his.

 

[handy]

Adam seems to have imperfectly taught the commandment to Eve

Do you have scripture for this.

In Genesis 2:17, we see that the commandment was:

“From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.â€

Eve is then created. Her version of the commandment was

God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.

So, the commandment was imperfectly taught. Somewhere along the line (and a very short line it was) there was added to it, "neither shall you touch it". God never said nuthin 'bout touching.

I home school my kids. When they are learning their lessons, I make sure they are learning them correctly. Sometimes, they don't understand the lessons and when asked about them, they get them wrong. When that's the case, I need to step in and help correct them. Considering that God told Adam the actual commandment, and considering that Adam was right there when all this was going down and he made no move to correct Eve, I would say he "imperfectly" taught Eve the lesson. Perhaps he told her not to touch the fruit in the helpful way men have ever had at hedging the Law... or the idea of not touching was her's and he simply didn't correct her.

Either way, there he was, watching the Serpent coaxing his wife to do exactly what God told him not to do...hearing her get the commandment muffed up...and doing not one thing about it, even though he wasn't fooled.

 

[handy]

Women can think? Now I am confused about the question.

That's two..... :D

@handy also, why continue the insanity in a fallen world by having more babies, wondering if your son or daughter is going to hell or heaven?

I do think... I think I really don't understand the question as to how it pertains to the discussion at hand... Why is this a question directed towards a woman? It does take two to make babies and don't men have the same concern for their children?

 

[jasoncran]

lol. adam didn't transmit the torah properly.nice most jewish! I can hear that being taught in the temples then and today.

 

[Edward]

Either way, there he was, watching the Serpent coaxing his wife to do exactly what God told him not to do...hearing her get the commandment muffed up...and doing not one thing about it, even though he wasn't fooled.

No, I think she did it behind his back!

 

[handy]

That's a good point, but surely Eve knew that she was to be submissive to her husband? That they had talked about it? They had one commandment to follow! The scripture is silent on this and yet it sort of stands to reason that she probably knew that she wasn't supposed to touch or eat it, deceived or not. I wish there was more details about his.

I think I addressed this in the post to Dave, but I will repeat that the commandment was never not to touch the fruit... that was added.

And, I think this is very important, because it shows the dangers of hedging the Law... the practice of adding to the Scriptures just to be "extra careful". The Pharisees were master's at this... hedging the Law so much that they accused Jesus of working on the Sabbath when He merely took a handful of grain and rubbed them between His palms. I'm not going to look up sources now, but I either read or heard once as to how there were ropes and lines marking distances that showed how far a person could walk on the Sabbath. Walk one step further and suddenly, one violated the Sabbath prohibition of traveling.

The Sabbath commandment was made for man, that he would have rest from the curse and rejoin communion with God. But men, by hedging the Law concerning the Sabbath, turned it into a burdensome thing. When we add to God's commandments, we actually make it far easier to break them... as we see with Eve. She was under the impression that to touch the food meant death... and when she took it, nothing happened so she ate it.

 

[Guest]

@handy also, why continue the insanity in a fallen world by having more babies, wondering if your son or daughter is going to hell or heaven?

Why is this a question directed towards a woman? It does take two to make babies.

Because a woman has been given authority to grow a baby in her womb.

 

[handy]

@handy also, why continue the insanity in a fallen world by having more babies, wondering if your son or daughter is going to hell or heaven?

Why is this a question directed towards a woman? It does take two to make babies.

Because a woman has been given authority to grow a baby in her womb.

I'm not so sure that it is authority as much as just the way God created us.

However, as I see it, there were two commandments God gave in the Garden... One to just Adam and one to both Adam and Eve. We've been discussing the first.

The second, although found in Genesis 1 actually came after Eve was created and she was told it directly by God.

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.†Genesis 1:27-28

Although the Fall took place, God did not take back this commandment. After breaking the first commandment, Adam and Eve did obey the second, although it becomes part of the curse for Eve. Some have taught that "yet your desire shall be for your husband" (Genesis 3:16) means that Eve desires to rule over her husband, but I don't see that. I think it simply is stating the truth that, in spite of less than perfect husbands, in spite of painful child bearing, in spite of the many troubles in this fallen world, women will still be motivated to seek a mate and bear children. This is true for the vast majority of women, although naturally not all.

I see nowhere in Scripture where we are to not follow through on this as part of a normal course of events...even in our fallen world.

 

[Classik]

I used to believe it was all Eve's fault. It seems to be tho. Why would God have to blame Adam first? HE should have started with Eve - HE didint'. HE approached Adam first.

Truth is, Adam was a non-resident kind of husband to Eve. He seemed to have spent more time 'outside' than he did inside which was the reason the enemy had the opportunity to trick Eve into sinning. Was Eve just made frail? When did women become frail? Perhaps that should form another tread. (No idea why Adam had to glory in her frailty)


I suggest we be closer to our wives so that those cunning guys, our neighbors, don't trick them...;)

 

[Guest]

Adam and Eve did obey the second, although it becomes part of the curse for Eve.

What curse are you talking about. Genesis 1:28 still applies today? Is it a sin not to multiply in 2013?

 

[Classik]

Non-resident kind of husband? Why? Maybe Eve wasn't so romantic:dunno :toofunny

 

[Guest]

Eve was probably like, look at my leaves, aren't they sexy?

 

[handy]

Adam and Eve did obey the second, although it becomes part of the curse for Eve.

What curse are you talking about. Genesis 1:28 still applies today? Is it a sin not to multiply in 2013?

Why would it be a sin to have children in 2013? :o

The curse I'm referring to is the curse that came about after the fall in which God cursed Adam, Eve and the Serpent. The account is found in Genesis 3. Specifically for Eve the curse was:

To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

 

[Guest]

Adam and Eve did obey the second, although it becomes part of the curse for Eve.

What curse are you talking about. Genesis 1:28 still applies today? Is it a sin not to multiply in 2013?

Why would it be a sin to have children in 2013? :o

The curse I'm referring to is the curse that came about after the fall in which God cursed Adam, Eve and the Serpent. The account is found in Genesis 3.

No, you have it backwards. According to Genesis 1:28, it's a sin NOT to have children whether it's the year 1923 or 2013. Am I wrong.

Specifically for Eve the curse was:

To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

Well this sums up a lot, geez. lol.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm, that was in context. I don't recall that the church teaching this? thou must have seed. my wife cant. all her kids aren't mine nor is jaci and rosemary. they are step family. a man and a women must choose to love kids.

 

[Guest]

uhm, that was in context. I don't recall that the church teaching this? thou must have seed. my wife cant.

What if you're able to have kids and man and woman choose not too. Is that a sin.

 

[handy]

No, you have it backwards. According to Genesis 1:28, it's a sin NOT to have children whether it's the year 1923 or 2013. Am I wrong.

Ahhh... I misread your previous post. My apologies.

I don't know about it being a sin to not have children... Certainly not all people are able to procreate, I'm not myself (although we have two kids via adoption). However, I do believe that it is the norm. In other words, unless there are extenuating reasons, I do believe that God still expects His people to marry and have children. Again, not always, but normative.

And, in a very practical sense, I see the wisdom in it. I've read a number of articles about how many problems the Chinese are lately dealing with due to their overwhelming suppression of people having more than one child...and most of the times selectively choosing boys over girls. There is now a growing generation of Chinese men who cannot find wives.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm, that was in context. I don't recall that the church teaching this? thou must have seed. my wife cant.

What if you're able to have kids and man and woman choose not too. Is that a sin.

my wife and I choose not to have kids as she didn't want to deal with that at the age of 42, but well she does deal with jaci quite well. my wife uterus was removed at age 42 a year after we married. man 42. I thought that was so far away for me and here I am 40. I was 29 when we married.