Addiction is a disease

[evenifigoalone]

I feel odd weighing in on this, like I'm treading on a subject I don't have much right to weigh in on, but I can see what is being said because I can relate what is being said to my experiences. I made the choice to allow myself to get obsessed with something to the point that I had a hard time not thinking about it...it was like my brain went there automatically, and I'd have to make a conscious effort to think about another topic. Initially I did choose to indulge until it got to that point, but once it did get to that point...it was very hard to stop, and the longer it went on the more tightly it held on. (Seeing as it wasn't an addictive substance nor one that I would think produced endorphins, I'm not sure how that happened.)
It was a choice, but at some point it got so that it was largely out of my control. So having experienced something like that, I can see how this would happen.

 

[th1b.taylor]

tension break.

Yup, that will scratch that spot you just can't, quite, reach. Thanks Jason.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Gotta love Brad Stine

 

[jasonc]

Gotta love Brad Stine

if you noticed he isn't shy about telling it like it is with that statement at the last ten seconds.

 

[Gary]

When people bring up the word choice, often the idea that is conjured up is, "do I want cereal or eggs for breakfast". "should I wear the red, or green shirt today". With addiction, the choice isn't so easy and you should understand this. You've been living with this addiction so long, choice hasn't been an option in years. You no longer make the choice to smoke. You smoke when your body tells you it's time to smoke. Wanna make a bet on this? Make the choice to stop smoking for 5 days and then tell me how much of a choice you really have. You see, you don't choose to breath, you just do. You don't choose to yawn when others around you yawn, you just do. In the same way, you no longer make the choice to smoke. You just do. And if you think it's as easy as making a mental choice in the matter, then I'll bet you that you can't make it 5 days. I'll put cold hard money on the table that by day 3 your emotions get the better of you and ability to rationalize and make a healthy choice is out the window and you grab that cigarette quicker than you can say snap crackel and pop.

You're making judgments based on your personal weakness for cigarettes. Would it surprise you to know that not everyone has that same weakness?
.

 

[jeff77]

Come on guys, can't we discuss this in a civil manner? We could have guest and members that are addicts and reading this forum that need help. I was one of them several years ago. I was in the early stage of quitting and I would view this site as a guest. I then became a member and believe that having the fellowship with other Christians is what really helped me. It wasn't like I was coming here and reading and posting in threads specifically about addiction although there might have been some. It was more about the Christian way of thinking and way of life as a whole.

1) Give other members the respect you would have them give to yourself. (ToS 2.4)
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence.

 

[stovebolts]

You're making judgments based on your personal weakness for cigarettes. Would it surprise you to know that not everyone has that same weakness?
.

Your diverting from the issue and shame on me, I knew better. I'll not go down the rabbit hole. Good day Gary.

Addiction is a disease and there are credible scientific studies which affirms its status as a disease. It is a disease because it meets the medical criteria as a disease. As such, we need to change how we treat addiction, and by that I mean that we have to change our ideas about jail and prison and what role they play when it comes to drug addiction. Instead, we need more resources to address the recovery of addicts such as medical treatment and mental health treatment. We need more three quarter houses and we need way more rehab centers.

Studies have shown that addicts are master manipulators because they have to be and the longer the consume their drugs, the more apparent their disease gets. Denial, justification and eventually the loss of morals and values. Many loose their common courtesy for their fellow man and sever relationships with those close to them, or those who try to assist them. The effects that the drugs play is the loss of dopamine receptors as well as the loss of the opioid receptors. Both of these contribute to the sense of well being and ambition or joy to the point where their drug of choice grants that feeling they crave and the long term consequences no longer are a reality. Even as their health spirals downward, the drive for their drug cannot be shaken easily. Because it reduces the number of brain receptors in the pre frontal cortex where rational thought filters emotional reactions, they actually loose the ability to make rational decisions, which is why they would continue to make the destructive choices which are prematurely killing themselves and severing relationships at the expense of their drug of choice.

As it becomes apparent, they will fight for their right for their drug of choice unyielding. Some of them you will never be able to help. But for those that are in that place where they realize they need help, we need to assist while never giving up on those who have given up on themselves.

grace and peace.

 

[jeff77]

James 1:12-15New International Version (NIV)
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Here is some scripture that I think could be applied to addiction. Verse 14 says that each person is tempted when dragged away by their own evil desire, so if addiction is a sin it comes from our own evil desire just like any other sin. Some people, while under trial will take the first drug or drink to cope. I believe that was a choice I made. Then continuing that behavior created an extra problem which is the cravings/need to use. The cravings/need part of addiction I had no control over. I couldn't help having them but I could help what I did with them. I believe that is the part where some would say it feels like a disease, if we are defining a disease(at least in part) as something you can't help. From what I understand the disease model says that this is irreversible and has been proven at least partially by science. That is where I differ. I know the cravings is something that an addict has no control over having after they have gotten them, but from my own experience and also from reading some scientific material I believe that those cravings will go away.

 

[Gary]

 

[Gary]

James 1:12-15New International Version (NIV)
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Here is some scripture that I think could be applied to addiction. Verse 14 says that each person is tempted when dragged away by their own evil desire, so if addiction is a sin it comes from our own evil desire just like any other sin. Some people, while under trial will take the first drug or drink to cope. I believe that was a choice I made. Then continuing that behavior created an extra problem which is the cravings/need to use. The cravings/need part of addiction I had no control over. I couldn't help having them but I could help what I did with them. I believe that is the part where some would say it feels like a disease, if we are defining a disease(at least in part) as something you can't help. From what I understand the disease model says that this is irreversible and has been proven at least partially by science. That is where I differ. I know the cravings is something that an addict has no control over having after they have gotten them, but from my own experience and also from reading some scientific material I believe that those cravings will go away.

Good post.
.

 

[jeff77]

Gary I have a suggestion and please don't take this the wrong way. We both believe that addiction is not a disease, but a state of mind or learned behavior right? So imagine that you could be completely free of the craving for nicotine. Why not go ahead and do it? You know it will be hard for a while, but eventually you will barley even remember what a nicotine buzz felt like. If you could go back to your first cig would you turn it down knowing know that it causes the cravings? If you say yes, it must be because you know that going back and never smoking the first one means freedom from the craving to nicotine. So again, if addiction is not a disease you can go back to that state of mind of not having any cravings that you had before you smoked your first cigarette. It is your choice, think of the benefits of quitting.

 

[Chopper]

 

[jeff77]

I'm serious and I am not trying to be smart with Gary. I have his best interest in mind.

 

[Gary]

I'm serious and I am not trying to be smart with Gary. I have his best interest in mind.

Don't worry about it. I know where you're coming from.

 

[stovebolts]

jeff77

A disease has cause (heroin, meth, nicotine).
Causes bodily internal harm. (Kills brain cells, liver, lungs etc.)
Is treatable (medication, therapy etc)

These three things fall within the medical difinition of a disease. Not opinion, but medical terms, drug addiction falls under these three criteria.

Also, nobody wants to address the PFC and ofc which is at the core of clinical addiction.

We have an oportuniy to help people with addiction. Im not talking abuse, im talking addiction. As I said, there aren't enough resources to help many who suffer with addiction.

If we can't change the stigma on addiction and get these people the help they desperately need, then I'm open to any viable ideas you have. And worth repeating, my agendacis clear. I, and many others want healthcare to cover drug addiction. We want state and federal dollars spent on rehabs and other needed resources.

I'm open. Give me suggestions with proof to take to our state senators that they will be able to get us the help we need. By the way, we have already changed on law in Michigan for addicts. We kinda know what we are doing.

Or, do I pull out?

 

[jeff77]

Don't worry about it. I know where you're coming from.

Oh gosh, thank you for not hating me for making that suggestion.

 

[Gary]

A disease has cause (heroin, meth, nicotine).
Causes bodily internal harm. (Kills brain cells, liver, lungs etc.)
Is treatable (medication, therapy etc)

I have a question.

Would the "disease" manifest itself without the aid of individual choice? Can someone become a heroin addict without ever using that drug?
.

 

[Kathi]

There are many,many people who have an addiction and go into therapy for it.The doctor finds out after months of treating the addiction that under that addiction there is a mental illness.They have been self medicating themselves.

 

[Rick W]

tension break.

Thanks Jason.
Needed that :biggrin

 

[stovebolts]

I have a question.

Would the "disease" manifest itself without the aid of individual choice? Can someone become a heroin addict without ever using that drug?
.

I've tried to account for that. PFC and ofc. Endorphins and dopamine. Stress, reduced recepticals etc. But you and others didn't want any part of that. To you and others its black and white. Its about individual choice and that's as far as you'll go.

Sorry....