[__ Science __ ] Age of earth

[Barbarian]

Unfortunately that is nonsense.
Time is relative in relation to the speed one is traveling at. The closer to the speed of light the slower time is.

Yes. I think that's what he meant. But since the Earth is moving at pretty much a constant speed and nowhere close to the speed of light, time has essentially been constant on Earth for billions of years.

 

[Uncle J]

I would like to know which scientific study or experiment has proven that carbon emissions are the primary reason for this global warming? And if carbon emissions are holding the heat in; why isn't that heat steadily increasing all over the planet? From reading the news some days are hotter than others (in the summer time of each hemisphere).

You should start with this post I put up a while ago, outlining the basics of the science behind human-caused climate change: https://christianforums.net/threads...ts-is-unacceptable.100769/page-3#post-1820333

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Uncle J I do agree it is human caused climate change; but there is more to it than these scientist understand. The earth's core is overheating, most of that has to do with the trash and satellites that are floating around in space above us. There are over 25,000 pieces of trash greater than 10 cm up there; according to NASA; and over 8,000 satellites.
The suns rays strike the earth and bounce off. As the outgoing rays cross the path of incoming rays, that creates friction; which gives us the illusion of light. Too much friction, too much heat; from the stuff that is reflecting those outgoing rays back down. That is also causing the earth's core to get too much radiation; hence over heating.
It is the oil that will burn in the Middle East; the thick black smoke from that will cover most of the earth, except for the area where New Jerusalem does sit. The shade from that smoke will give the earths core time to cool back down to a reasonable level. That will eventually calm the Tides, which will get the weather back to somewhat being normal.

 

[Uncle J]

Uncle J I do agree it is human caused climate change; but there is more to it than these scientist understand. The earth's core is overheating, most of that has to do with the trash and satellites that are floating around in space above us. There are over 25,000 pieces of trash greater than 10 cm up there; according to NASA; and over 8,000 satellites.
The suns rays strike the earth and bounce off. As the outgoing rays cross the path of incoming rays, that creates friction; which gives us the illusion of light. Too much friction, too much heat; from the stuff that is reflecting those outgoing rays back down. That is also causing the earth's core to get too much radiation; hence over heating.
It is the oil that will burn in the Middle East; the thick black smoke from that will cover most of the earth, except for the area where New Jerusalem does sit. The shade from that smoke will give the earths core time to cool back down to a reasonable level. That will eventually calm the Tides, which will get the weather back to somewhat being normal.

I gotta say, I've never heard anything like what you're proposing. I'm curious if you have any data or sources for the above. If you do, could you post them?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Sorry, the people who gave me that information are long since dust; and it was given to me long before the first scientist on this earth started talking about global warming or climate change. All these governments thinking it was just fine to leave all that trash floating up there, and the mega corporations shooting things up there now; are clueless.

 

[Uncle J]

Sorry, the people who gave me that information are long since dust; and it was given to me long before the first scientist on this earth started talking about global warming or climate change. All these governments thinking it was just fine to leave all that trash floating up there, and the mega corporations shooting things up there now; are clueless.

Okey doke. Thanks anyways.

 

[Barbarian]

Uncle J I do agree it is human caused climate change; but there is more to it than these scientist understand. The earth's core is overheating, most of that has to do with the trash and satellites that are floating around in space above us.

Sounds interesting. Show us your evidence.

As the outgoing rays cross the path of incoming rays, that creates friction; which gives us the illusion of light.

No. Electromagnetic waves pass right though each other.

Too much friction, too much heat; from the stuff that is reflecting those outgoing rays back down.

Hmm... let's see your numbers for that. Sounds extremely unlikely.

That is also causing the earth's core to get too much radiation; hence over heating.

No radiation from satellites reaches the core.

If you don't have the means to test these stories, what makes you think they are true?

 

[JT4444]

Unfortunately that is nonsense.
Time is relative in relation to the speed one is traveling at. The closer to the speed of light the slower time is.
Time on earth is not relative, it passed at the same rate for Adam as it did for the pilgrim Father's, as it does for us.

How one understands scientific facts depends on the biases one brings to those facts.

I subscribe to Dr. Gerald Schroeder's theory reconciling the six days of Creation with the scientific consensus that the universe is about 14 billion years old. From the Wikipedia page on Schroeder:

Among other things, Schroeder attempts to reconcile a six-day creation as described in Genesis with the scientific evidence that the world is billions of years old using the idea that the perceived flow of time for a given event in an expanding universe varies with the observer's perspective of that event. He attempts to reconcile the two perspectives numerically, calculating the effect of the stretching of space-time, based on Albert Einstein's general relativity.

Namely, he claims that from the perspective of the point of origin of the Big Bang, according to Einstein's equations of the 'stretching factor', time dilates by a factor of roughly 1,000,000,000,000, meaning one trillion days on earth would appear to pass as one day from that point, due to the stretching of space. When applied to the estimated age of the universe at 13.8 billion years, from the perspective of the point of origin, the universe today would appear to have just begun its sixth day of existence, or if the universe is 15 billion years old from the perspective of earth, it would appear to have just completed its sixth day. Antony Flew, an academic philosopher who promoted atheism for most of his adult life indicated that the arguments of Gerald Schroeder had influenced his decision to become a deist.

 

[Who Me]

I subscribe to Dr. Gerald Schroeder's theory reconciling the six days of Creation with the scientific consensus that the universe is about 14 billion years old. From the Wikipedia page on Schroeder:

Among other things, Schroeder attempts to reconcile a six-day creation as described in Genesis with the scientific evidence that the world is billions of years old using the idea that the perceived flow of time for a given event in an expanding universe varies with the observer's perspective of that event. He attempts to reconcile the two perspectives numerically, calculating the effect of the stretching of space-time, based on Albert Einstein's general relativity.

Namely, he claims that from the perspective of the point of origin of the Big Bang, according to Einstein's equations of the 'stretching factor', time dilates by a factor of roughly 1,000,000,000,000, meaning one trillion days on earth would appear to pass as one day from that point, due to the stretching of space. When applied to the estimated age of the universe at 13.8 billion years, from the perspective of the point of origin, the universe today would appear to have just begun its sixth day of existence, or if the universe is 15 billion years old from the perspective of earth, it would appear to have just completed its sixth day. Antony Flew, an academic philosopher who promoted atheism for most of his adult life indicated that the arguments of Gerald Schroeder had influenced his decision to become a deist.

The problem for evolution and long ages is that you have to believe that God regards death and suffering as being very good.

 

[Barbarian]

The problem for evolution and long ages is that you have to believe that God regards death and suffering as being very good.

He said that creation was very good. Not perfect. Until Adam sinned, death was nothing to fear. Today, Christians don't see dying when God calls for it, as a bad thing. A Christian should never fear death.

 

[Who Me]

He said that creation was very good. Not perfect. Until Adam sinned, death was nothing to fear. Today, Christians don't see dying when God calls for it, as a bad thing. A Christian should never fear death.

In the creation account there is no death until Adam sinned, this is confirmed by Paul in Romans.

Yes Christians should not fear death, but millions of years of death and suffering of animals and of proto humans is not good.
Death is an enemy, an enemy of only of Christians but even more for non Christians.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Death is an enemy, an enemy of only of Christians but even more for non Christians.

Death has never been the end; the end will come on Final Judgment Day.

 

[Barbarian]

In the creation account there is no death until Adam sinned, this is confirmed by Paul in Romans.

You're confused about the kind of death Adam brought into the world. God tells Adam that he will die the day he eats from the tree. Adam eats from the tree and lives on physically for many years thereafter. If God is truthful, then the death Adam brought to the world is not a physical one.

Yes Christians should not fear death, but millions of years of death and suffering of animals and of proto humans is not good.

You're making decisions for God here. Let Him be God and accept that He did it the right way.

 

[miamited]

Hi Taafe

I’ve heard people say the earth is approx. 6000 years old.
The problem with this statement is that scientists prove otherwise and I find it difficult to believe.

Would like to see other people's opinions on this new or long-term Christians.

Well, let me see if I can offer up my explanation of what the Scriptures say, regarding the 'how' and 'when' this realm came to exist.

God's words says that there was a moment that God created this realm of existence. A moment, if you will, that He commanded the earth to exist covered in water. Spinning about in a vast and empty area that we call space. Then the word of God tells us that He took a few more days to complete the creation of a realm of existence that would sustain a unique creature of His creating, that He called 'man'.

As God is building and fine tuning this realm of His creating a place for man to live, He tells us that He did certain and various tasks within the timeframe of 'days'. He does some work building this realm and then He looks over what He's done and declares that a day has passed. He repeats this process for a period of time that He defines as a period of six days, and then He rests.

I believe that the earth, at the moment of God's commanding it to exist...it was spinning. The defining of a day has always been the amount of time it takes for a spinning planetary body to complete one full turn on its axis. We don't really have any data that might 'prove' that the earth rotated much differently, as far as speed, when it completed its first rotation and the speed it rotates today. Of course, we can surmise or make guesses, that the earth's rotational speed has differed over time, but there isn't any provable evidence of that guesswork.

So that's God's explanation to us as to the 'how' He created this realm in which we live. He began with the earth. As He continued through the time of the next 6 rotations of the earth, He built this realm. Put plants and animals on the earth and brought forth the dry land from under the water for them to live on. He scattered across the entire universe all of the stars and heavenly bodies that we see out there today. He literally, from absolutely nothing, created a realm of existence that would sustain the physical needs for the grandest part of His creating effort...man.

He says that He did all of that in six days and repeats that claim at least twice more in the writing of His word. For in six days the Lord, God created all that is in the heavens or on the earth... That's God's testimony to us from His word.

I believe that! I fully believe that about 6,000 years ago, and I'll explain that number in a moment, there was nothing that existed in all of the universe in which we live. There were no stars waaaay, waaaay out there. There was no sun or moon or asteroids shooting across the expanse. There was merely the black, inky, thick darkness of nothing. There wasn't any light. So the very first command of God, as He set forth to build this realm in which man would live, was "Let there be light!" He then set about building this earth and universe. Creating a realm of existence in which man, a creature that He was going to form from the very building blocks of the earth upon which they would live, could thrive.

I believe that God did that - from the commanding that there be light in this realm of our universe to the stooping down and creating His magnum opus, man - in the time it took the newly formed earth to spin 6 times on its axis.

Next up: 6,000 years.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

continued

So, if one chooses to believe God's explanation to us as to 'how' He created this realm in which we live, from nothing to all that our eyes can see, then the 6,000 year age of God's newly formed creation is pretty simple. Again, God's testimony provides us with several genealogical lists. From these we can fairly accurately know the length of time that this realm of God's creating, has existed. The first record tells us that Adam was 120 years old, thus the earth is 120 years old also, but six days older than Adam, when Adam had a son. In other words, by the time that Seth was born to Adam and Eve, the earth had made 120 trips around the sun. Then the record tells us how old Seth was when he had a particular son. If we add all of these father's ages when they had their sons, we can, within a few years, say how old the earth is at any particular point along the time line. Of course, that's assuming that one believes God's word that tells us that He created all that exists in this realm, in 6 days.

If you sit down and do the math, we're right around 6,000 years from the day that God said, "Let there be light!"

Thus we now have the 'when' of God's creating this realm in which He made man to live.

Now, you bring up what scientists have told us. Each one is free to believe the one that they think is telling them the truth. Eve had that freedom and so do each one of us. But I believe that there is a God in heaven. I believe that all that exists is of His making. I believe that He's the only one that knows the truth about everything. That nothing is hidden from Him. Here's what I believe about the scientific methodology that man uses.

Science is good. There are a lot of day to day things, that without someone having used scientific study methods, we wouldn't have or do. But to know that any particular scientific understanding is correct, then the postulates that man comes up with to explain such things has to be repeatable. When it comes to building a realm of existence, there really isn't a lot that we can study that is, in fact, repeatable.

But I believe that the things that God does, can't be explained by man and his scientific methodology. For example, I believe that God did part a sea and that the testimony that the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground with a wall of water on both sides of them, is a true account. But, how did God get water to stand as a sentinel on their left and right sides?

I believe that a young woman in Israel did come up pregnant without the introduction of male sperm into her vaginal cavity. How did God do that? For me, when science can answer those relatively simple questions, then I'll maybe trust them to tell me how God did His most magnificent work in creating this realm of our existence to start with.

Hopefully that explains my understanding of God's work in this realm. And also explains for you the 'how' and 'when' of a believer's understanding of this created realm in which we live and how long it has been since it was created.

God bless,
Ted

 

[JT4444]

The problem for evolution and long ages is that you have to believe that God regards death and suffering as being very good.

6000 are the years from Adam, not the beginning of the universe. Before Adam, time was measured from God's perspective. While God is infinite and eternal, the universe is not. It had a beginning. When you expand time the same amount as space expanded, then 5.5 days becomes about 15 billion years.

 

[JT4444]

The problem for evolution and long ages is that you have to believe that God regards death and suffering as being very good.

Until Adam, there were no creatures with a soul. The soul is what makes us different from animals. There's nothing to suggest that God cares about the life or death of animals or plants.

 

[Barbarian]

Until Adam, there were no creatures with a soul. The soul is what makes us different from animals. There's nothing to suggest that God cares about the life or death of animals or plants.

Proverbs 12:10 Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.

 

[JT4444]

Unnecessary cruelty is one thing, but God does not forbid us from killing and eating other living creatures. We're made in His image, but they are not.

 

[Who Me]

You're confused about the kind of death Adam brought into the world. God tells Adam that he will die the day he eats from the tree. Adam eats from the tree and lives on physically for many years thereafter. If God is truthful, then the death Adam brought to the world is not a physical one.


You're making decisions for God here. Let Him be God and accept that He did it the right way.

There are two forms of death.
Adam died spiritual 5he moment he broke God's command.
We see this in he went from having Communion with God as he named the animals to being frighten at the thought of meeting God.

He also started the physical processes that lead to physical death as his body started to age and wear out.