I'm not hostile to you or anyone that has a differing view about this than I do. I am very firm in the points I wish to make on this because I think the ideas expressed that we can be effective witnesses in bars and pubs should not be considered as a good way to spread the Gospel.
Being an effective witness sometimes takes no more than showing love and kindness towards one's neighbor. Regardless if the restaurant I'm at serves alcohol or not, me being kind to my waitress and other's around me is witnessing for Christ. There is more than one way to show Christ's love besides preaching to people on street corners.
Oh, I have no problem believing that. Have you ever asked God to send the Holy Spirit to you before walking into a nightclub, pub, or bar and lead your steps in this "ministry"?
I don't really go to nightclubs or bars because I don't like how crowded they are, the sub-par music they play, and I don't like having drinks spilled all over me. So no, that isn't part of my "ministry". Also what isn't part of my ministry is passing judgement on someone for having a drink while out with friends either. Sounds like something the Pharasees would do.
Oh, I have no doubt about that either I just have my doubts that the Holy Spirit sends people into bars for Bible studies.
Well lucky for me I answer to God and not to your legalistic interpretations of the Bible.
Well in that men and women that over imbibe will not see heaven I think we can conclude, in a sense, that wine will be judged.
Actually, no, I don’t come to that conclusion at all. God judges us for what WE DO with what He’s given us, just as we will be judged for how we use our money, spiritual gifts, etc.
I suspect that when we die and are resurrected on the last day that we will take with us the nature and character's we have developed here on earth. I do not see alcohol consumption or it's attendant behavior in bars, nightclubs or pubs as either conducive to good Bible study or the development of good character. That's just my view.
However, I think it's silly to consider a conversation over a few pints in a bar a Bible study just as much as I would consider a discussion on airplanes over a few pints making me qualified as a pilot! Enjoy.
By jumping to the conclusion that we’re going out and behaving as debaucherous drunks while having a Bible Study it doesn’t surprise me that you think that. Not only do you judge my actions but then you infer about the quality and depth of my relationship with God based on the fac that my fellowship with other Christians occurs at a place that isn't "Holy" enough for you. Again, if the Holy Spirit approves it as a place to hang out with ffriends,it's an appropriate place for me to hang out with God as well.
Argue all you want, but the Bible says nothing in reference to moderate consumption of alcohol, only drunkenness. People like to argue that they’re only referring to “grape juice†in all the positive passages about wine and “fermented wine†in all the negative passages about wine. This is not so.
http://bible.org/article/bible-and-alcohol
"Some take the words for wine to mean ‘grape juice.’ If this were so, then why would there be prohibitions against drunkenness? One cannot get drunk on grape juice. Further, Jesus’ first miracle was changing the water into wine at the wedding of Cana in Galilee. He made between 120 and 180 gallons of wine! Even if this had been grape juice, it would soon turn to wine because the fermentation process would immediately begin. But it most certainly was not grape juice: the head waiter in John 2:10 said, “Every man sets out the good wine first, then after the guests have drunk freely, the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.†The verb translated ‘drunk freely’ is almost always used of getting drunk (and is so translated in the NRSV here). In the least, the people at this wedding feast, if not drunk, would certainly be drinking alcohol fairly freely (if not, this verb means something here that is nowhere else attested4). And this makes perfect sense in the context: The reason why a man brings out the poorer wine later is because the good wine has numbed the senses a bit. Grape juice would hardly mask anything. Note also Acts 2:13—â€they are full of sweet wineâ€â€”an inaccurate comment made about the apostles when they began speaking in tongues, as though this explained their unusual behavior. The point is: If they were full of grape juice would this comment even have made any sense at all? That would be like saying, “Well, they’re all acting strange and silly because they have had too much orange juice this morning!â€
There are other references to alcoholic beverages in the Bible: Several times in the first books of the Bible, wine and strong drink are prohibited to those who take a Nazarite vow (cf. Num 6, Judges 13). Even grape juice and fresh and dried grapes (i.e., raisins, as the NIV renders the word) are prohibited to the Nazarite (Numbers 6:3)!5 But that restriction is only for those who make this vow. If someone today wants to claim that believers do not have the right to drink alcohol on the analogy of a Nazarite vow (as some today are fond of doing), they also should say that believers ought not to eat Raisin Bran!
Further, the Bible at times speaks very harshly about becoming enslaved to drink or allowing it to control a person, especially to the point of drunkenness. Proverbs 20:1—“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise†(NASB). Cf. also Prov 21:17 (where heavy drinking and gluttony are equally condemned); 1 Sam 1:14; Isa 5:11, 22; 28:1 (drunkenness is condemned); 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Jer 23:9; 51:7; Joel 3:3. In the New Testament notice: Eph 5:18 (“do not get drunk with wineâ€); 1 Tim 3:3, 8; Titus 1:7 ([elders and deacons ought not be] “addicted to wine or strong drinkâ€); Titus 2:3 (older women, who would serve as role models to the younger ones, must not be addicted to wine). As well, numerous passages use wine or drunkenness in an analogy about God’s wrath, immorality, etc. (cf. Rev. 14:8, 10; 16:19; 17:2; 18:3).
The significance of these negative statements is just this: If this were only grape juice, why would excess in drinking it be condemned? If this were only grape juice, why are certain mental effects attributed to it (cf., e.g., Psalm 60:3)? One can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that wine is always grape juice, for then the negative statements in scripture make no sense; those who say that it is only grape juice tend to focus just on the neutral and positive passages, conveniently allowing them to condemn the drinking of real wine at all times. But even this position is not logical: If the Bible only speaks of grape juice, then it makes no comment about alcoholic wine. And if so, then it does not directly prohibit it. And if we are going to prohibit something that the Bible does not address, why stop at wine? Why don’t we include the ballet, opera, football games, country-western music (actually, I might be in favor of banning this one!), salt water fishing, zippers on clothes, etc. Once legalism infests the soul it doesn’t know where to quit.
In sum, is wine the same as grape juice? No, for if it were, the Bible would hardly condemn the abuse of such. Those who argue that the two are identical simply cannot handle the passages that speak about excess."
