Alcohol in Heaven

[Elijah674]

not mention if done way in excess distending organs(pickling) ie beer gut and stomach cancer and alcoholism has been like to the mental disorder bi-polar.

jason

Drink a gallon of water in 15 minutes and you will die. Sneeze and you will kill brain cells. Anything in excess is bad, and that is not the point, jason. I agree that addiction/ alcoholism is not of God but to fault a can of beer because of the actions of others , or the links to cancer when abuses is the SAME as saying I cant eat a cheeseburger because it could lead me to obesity or raised cholesterol.

So a little sin is OK, huh! See Obad. 1:16
--Elijah

 

[RND]

Alcohol is a food in the sense it has energy our bodies can use (calories)

Alcohol is not a food and in fact is actually a depressant.

in fact is a very good FOOD.

Then why don't we serve it to our children as they grow and develop?

it has 7 calories per gram. Carbs and Protein only have 4 calories per gram. Alcohol is very energy dense, and its basically what keeps some homeless people alive, you can easily drink 800 calories of it since its just a liquid.

:o Wow, I'm actually speechless. How does one counter such "fuzzy" logic?

Is it more practical to assume wine is Alcoholic or none alcoholic by the standards of that era?

Well, I believe understanding the methods of preservation that the ancient Egyptians used to preserve food and prevent fermentation would eleiminate any need to assume.

 

[Panin]

This is a post by someone I saw on a non christian thread.

The Bible gives a perfect description of alcohol in Proverbs 23:"Who hath WOE? Who hath SORROW? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? THEY THAT TARRY LONG AT THE WINE; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it BITETH LIKE A SERPENT, AND STINGETH LIKE AN ADDER. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

The Bible says, ". . . at last it biteth like A SERPENT." Do you know what a serpent bite is? POISON!
Did you know that alcohol is poison?
Every major organ in your body is poisoned by alcohol. "Scientific data shows alcohol is THE MOST PHYSICALLY DETERIORATING drug there is. It causes more organic damage than any other drug. . ."Why is it when people get drunk, they have a tendency to vomit? Because your stomach knows POISON when it comes down! No wonder the bartender says, "NAME YOUR POISON"! When a man is drunk, he is INTOXICATED. Do you know what a TOXIC is? IT IS A POISON!
so why would jesus make wine?
Scientists have only recently discovered the physical process that creates the slurred speech and drunken stupor. Once in the blood stream, alcohol causes a coagulation of the red corpuscles referred to as "sludging". The blood thickens so that it cannot flow freely and clogs the metabolic exchange of life-giving oxygen. And when cells are deprived of oxygen - THEY DIE! And because brain cells require a high oxygen supply continuously, they are particularly vulnerable! And brain cells are the only cells that do not reproduce! Brain cells destroyed are never replaced! Autopsies performed on drinkers, often reveal hollow cavities in the skull, where ENTIRE CONVOLUTIONS OF THE BRAIN HAVE DISAPPEARED! And according to studies by Dr. Melvin H. Kinsley, brain damage occurs progressively from THE VERY FIRST DRINK! The next time you see that man staggering drunk - YOU ARE WATCHING A MAN LITERALLY DESTROYING HIS BRAIN!

Median lethal dose of ethanol
BAC (mg/dL) 400 BAC(% v/v) 0.4%

 

[RND]

This is a post by someone I saw on a non christian thread.

The Bible gives a perfect description of alcohol in Proverbs 23:"Who hath WOE? Who hath SORROW? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? THEY THAT TARRY LONG AT THE WINE; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it BITETH LIKE A SERPENT, AND STINGETH LIKE AN ADDER. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

The Bible says, ". . . at last it biteth like A SERPENT." Do you know what a serpent bite is? POISON!
Did you know that alcohol is poison?
Every major organ in your body is poisoned by alcohol. "Scientific data shows alcohol is THE MOST PHYSICALLY DETERIORATING drug there is. It causes more organic damage than any other drug. . ."Why is it when people get drunk, they have a tendency to vomit? Because your stomach knows POISON when it comes down! No wonder the bartender says, "NAME YOUR POISON"! When a man is drunk, he is INTOXICATED. Do you know what a TOXIC is? IT IS A POISON!
so why would jesus make wine?
Scientists have only recently discovered the physical process that creates the slurred speech and drunken stupor. Once in the blood stream, alcohol causes a coagulation of the red corpuscles referred to as "sludging". The blood thickens so that it cannot flow freely and clogs the metabolic exchange of life-giving oxygen. And when cells are deprived of oxygen - THEY DIE! And because brain cells require a high oxygen supply continuously, they are particularly vulnerable! And brain cells are the only cells that do not reproduce! Brain cells destroyed are never replaced! Autopsies performed on drinkers, often reveal hollow cavities in the skull, where ENTIRE CONVOLUTIONS OF THE BRAIN HAVE DISAPPEARED! And according to studies by Dr. Melvin H. Kinsley, brain damage occurs progressively from THE VERY FIRST DRINK! The next time you see that man staggering drunk - YOU ARE WATCHING A MAN LITERALLY DESTROYING HIS BRAIN!

Median lethal dose of ethanol
BAC (mg/dL) 400 BAC(% v/v) 0.4%

 

[LaCrum]

Its not possible to have just one if your an alcoholic, no. An alcohloic must stay away form the first drink. No offense, but if you are not an alcoholic you will never understand, and you dont really need to either I guess. Just be thankful you arent one. Hey lots of folk clealry enjoy wine. I never did.

There may be some that taste nice, but in all my years of trying to aquire the taste to enjoy wine, and it was many years and many mnay attempts, I didn't find one that was pleasant to taste, but they all had the same alcoholic effect, which was all I was after. I only drank wine when I was already drunk. Most of it tastes like sick burps to me.

Are we talking heaven in the clouds or on earth??. DOnt know.

Happy Christmas.

If I belonged to your church I would not be bable to attend a bible study in a pub, thats tres bizzar bro. You must be the funky cool hip Christians. Good luck with that

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wasn't referring to alcoholics having just one drink, I was talking about drinking for the average person. Alcoholics definitely shouldn't be drinking, that's a very slippery slope for people who struggle with addiction.

I don't think it's bizzare at all, it's people gathering in fellowship and talking about God. I don't know what you mean by "funky cool hip", I'm just someone who loves the Lord and has given my life over to him utterly and completely.

I feel like this whole debate would be solved quite easily if someone just asked a scholar who studies culture from around Jesus's time. My understanding of scripture leads me to believe they are talking about actual wine, not grape juice.

 

[elijah23]

I believe insobriety is a sin.

 

[Panin]

Its not possible to have just one if your an alcoholic, no. An alcohloic must stay away form the first drink. No offense, but if you are not an alcoholic you will never understand, and you dont really need to either I guess. Just be thankful you arent one. Hey lots of folk clealry enjoy wine. I never did.

There may be some that taste nice, but in all my years of trying to aquire the taste to enjoy wine, and it was many years and many mnay attempts, I didn't find one that was pleasant to taste, but they all had the same alcoholic effect, which was all I was after. I only drank wine when I was already drunk. Most of it tastes like sick burps to me.

Are we talking heaven in the clouds or on earth??. DOnt know.

Happy Christmas.

If I belonged to your church I would not be bable to attend a bible study in a pub, thats tres bizzar bro. You must be the funky cool hip Christians. Good luck with that

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wasn't referring to alcoholics having just one drink, I was talking about drinking for the average person. Alcoholics definitely shouldn't be drinking, that's a very slippery slope for people who struggle with addiction.

I don't think it's bizzare at all, it's people gathering in fellowship and talking about God. I don't know what you mean by "funky cool hip", I'm just someone who loves the Lord and has given my life over to him utterly and completely.

I feel like this whole debate would be solved quite easily if someone just asked a scholar who studies
culture from around Jesus's time. My understanding of scripture leads me to believe they are talking about actual wine, not grape juice.

There are many places for Christians to fellowship - why choose a booze bar??

The bible says avoid, even, the appearance of evil. Sitting in a pub having a bible study is a joke mate. Its worse than babling in toungues during public worship time in my opinion. Sorry, I dont buy it. Not to mention the temptation for alcoholic christans who will not be able to attend, worldy music blaring out of the speakers and all manner of other potential temptations.

Do you drink alcohol during the bible study aswell?? If not why not??

 

[Elijah674]

Its not possible to have just one if your an alcoholic, no. An alcohloic must stay away form the first drink. No offense, but if you are not an alcoholic you will never understand, and you dont really need to either I guess. Just be thankful you arent one. Hey lots of folk clealry enjoy wine. I never did.

There may be some that taste nice, but in all my years of trying to aquire the taste to enjoy wine, and it was many years and many mnay attempts, I didn't find one that was pleasant to taste, but they all had the same alcoholic effect, which was all I was after. I only drank wine when I was already drunk. Most of it tastes like sick burps to me.

Are we talking heaven in the clouds or on earth??. DOnt know.

Happy Christmas.

If I belonged to your church I would not be bable to attend a bible study in a pub, thats tres bizzar bro. You must be the funky cool hip Christians. Good luck with that

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wasn't referring to alcoholics having just one drink, I was talking about drinking for the average person. Alcoholics definitely shouldn't be drinking, that's a very slippery slope for people who struggle with addiction.

I don't think it's bizzare at all, it's people gathering in fellowship and talking about God. I don't know what you mean by "funky cool hip", I'm just someone who loves the Lord and has given my life over to him utterly and completely.

I feel like this whole debate would be solved quite easily if someone just asked a scholar who studies
culture from around Jesus's time. My understanding of scripture leads me to believe they are talking about actual wine, not grape juice.

There are many places for Christians to fellowship - why choose a booze bar??

The bible says avoid, even, the appearance of evil. Sitting in a pub having a bible study is a joke mate. Its worse than babling in toungues during public worship time in my opinion. Sorry, I dont buy it. Not to mention the temptation for alcoholic christans who will not be able to attend, worldy music blaring out of the speakers and all manner of other potential temptations.

Do you drink alcohol during the bible study aswell?? If not why not??

The subject was about fermented wine in heaven, was it not?

 

[Panin]

Re:

I believe so, yes.

 

[Elijah674]

And one wonders why there is a Rev. 17:1-5 verse??

 

[RND]

And one wonders why there is a Rev. 17:1-5 verse??

 

[ChevyRodeo]

not mention if done way in excess distending organs(pickling) ie beer gut and stomach cancer and alcoholism has been like to the mental disorder bi-polar.

jason

Drink a gallon of water in 15 minutes and you will die. Sneeze and you will kill brain cells. Anything in excess is bad, and that is not the point, jason. I agree that addiction/ alcoholism is not of God but to fault a can of beer because of the actions of others , or the links to cancer when abuses is the SAME as saying I cant eat a cheeseburger because it could lead me to obesity or raised cholesterol.

So a little sin is OK, huh! See Obad. 1:16
--Elijah

Its not sin if Jesus did it. SO no its not sinning even a little.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Alcohol is a food in the sense it has energy our bodies can use (calories)

Alcohol is not a food and in fact is actually a depressant.

in fact is a very good FOOD.

Then why don't we serve it to our children as they grow and develop?

[quote:2ufqe4o1]it has 7 calories per gram. Carbs and Protein only have 4 calories per gram. Alcohol is very energy dense, and its basically what keeps some homeless people alive, you can easily drink 800 calories of it since its just a liquid.

:o Wow, I'm actually speechless. How does one counter such "fuzzy" logic?

Is it more practical to assume wine is Alcoholic or none alcoholic by the standards of that era?

Well, I believe understanding the methods of preservation that the ancient Egyptians used to preserve food and prevent fermentation would eleiminate any need to assume.[/quote:2ufqe4o1]

- It has energy, so it's food. That is what food is, stuff we can bio mechanically extract energy from.
- Some countries do serve alcohol to children. Look at france and their low levels of colon cancer.
- Then how is drunkenness achieved.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

This is a post by someone I saw on a non christian thread.

The Bible gives a perfect description of alcohol in Proverbs 23:"Who hath WOE? Who hath SORROW? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? THEY THAT TARRY LONG AT THE WINE; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it BITETH LIKE A SERPENT, AND STINGETH LIKE AN ADDER. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

The Bible says, ". . . at last it biteth like A SERPENT." Do you know what a serpent bite is? POISON!
Did you know that alcohol is poison?
Every major organ in your body is poisoned by alcohol. "Scientific data shows alcohol is THE MOST PHYSICALLY DETERIORATING drug there is. It causes more organic damage than any other drug. . ."Why is it when people get drunk, they have a tendency to vomit? Because your stomach knows POISON when it comes down! No wonder the bartender says, "NAME YOUR POISON"! When a man is drunk, he is INTOXICATED. Do you know what a TOXIC is? IT IS A POISON!
so why would jesus make wine?
Scientists have only recently discovered the physical process that creates the slurred speech and drunken stupor. Once in the blood stream, alcohol causes a coagulation of the red corpuscles referred to as "sludging". The blood thickens so that it cannot flow freely and clogs the metabolic exchange of life-giving oxygen. And when cells are deprived of oxygen - THEY DIE! And because brain cells require a high oxygen supply continuously, they are particularly vulnerable! And brain cells are the only cells that do not reproduce! Brain cells destroyed are never replaced! Autopsies performed on drinkers, often reveal hollow cavities in the skull, where ENTIRE CONVOLUTIONS OF THE BRAIN HAVE DISAPPEARED! And according to studies by Dr. Melvin H. Kinsley, brain damage occurs progressively from THE VERY FIRST DRINK! The next time you see that man staggering drunk - YOU ARE WATCHING A MAN LITERALLY DESTROYING HIS BRAIN!

Median lethal dose of ethanol
BAC (mg/dL) 400 BAC(% v/v) 0.4%

a lot of incorrect information but I see the point, Alcohol can be damaging when you have to much, just like water or anything else.

Is it a sin to drink a cup of gasoline? very damaging. A sin to sneeze? it kills brain cells. What exactly IS the sin then?

 

[ChevyRodeo]

And one wonders why there is a Rev. 17:1-5 verse??

" drunk with the wine of her fornication."

The verse is not about alcohol.

 

[RND]

Alcohol is a food in the sense it has energy our bodies can use (calories)

Alcohol is not a food and in fact is actually a depressant.

in fact is a very good FOOD.

Then why don't we serve it to our children as they grow and develop?

[quote:3itu8sey]it has 7 calories per gram. Carbs and Protein only have 4 calories per gram. Alcohol is very energy dense, and its basically what keeps some homeless people alive, you can easily drink 800 calories of it since its just a liquid.

:o Wow, I'm actually speechless. How does one counter such "fuzzy" logic?

[quote:3itu8sey]Is it more practical to assume wine is Alcoholic or none alcoholic by the standards of that era?

Well, I believe understanding the methods of preservation that the ancient Egyptians used to preserve food and prevent fermentation would eleiminate any need to assume.[/quote:3itu8sey]

- It has energy, so it's food. That is what food is, stuff we can bio mechanically extract energy from.
- Some countries do serve alcohol to children. Look at france and their low levels of colon cancer.
- Then how is drunkenness achieved.[/quote:3itu8sey] :o Wow, I'm actually speechless. How does one counter such "fuzzy" logic?

 

[researcher]

Wine
H3196
???
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].


Psa 104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psa 104:14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
Psa 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Num 6:13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:20 And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.

Gen 27:22 And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.
Gen 27:23 And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him.
Gen 27:24 And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.
Gen 27:25 And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine, and he drank.

Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Jdg 19:1 And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah.
Jdg 19:19 Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
Jdg 19:20 And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.
Jdg 19:21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

1Ch 12:39 And there they were with David three days, eating and drinking: for their brethren had prepared for them.
1Ch 12:40 Moreover they that were nigh them, even unto Issachar and Zebulun and Naphtali, brought bread on asses, and on camels, and on mules, and on oxen, and meat, meal, cakes of figs, and bunches of raisins, and wine, and oil, and oxen, and sheep abundantly: for there was joy in Israel.

Dan 10:2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
Dan 10:3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

The evidence is in favor of wine being alcoholic.

- If Jesus does something, it cannot be a sin.

- There is evidence Jesus, Noah and others drank alcohol.

- Consumption of Alcohol is not a sin because Jesus, the sinless, did it

This is unbreakable logic backed by the WORD: If Jesus does something, it cannot be a sin.

The argument then redirects to "well... was it alcoholic?"

-The evidence is in favor of wine being alcoholic.

 

[RND]

The evidence is in favor of wine being alcoholic.

- If Jesus does something, it cannot be a sin.

Why?

- There is evidence Jesus, Noah and others drank alcohol.

There is no evidence Jesus drank fermented juice.

- Consumption of Alcohol is not a sin because Jesus, the sinless, did it

Again, you would have to offer specific proof.

This is unbreakable logic backed by the WORD: If Jesus does something, it cannot be a sin.

The argument then redirects to "well... was it alcoholic?"

-The evidence is in favor of wine being alcoholic.

1) Is there evidence in the Bible that all grape juice was fermented and 2) Is there any directed evidence that Jesus drank alcohol?

 

[RND]

And one wonders why there is a Rev. 17:1-5 verse??

" drunk with the wine of her fornication."

The verse is not about alcohol.

You're right! It's a verse about doctrine in that wine is commonly a symbolic reference for doctrine (teaching). Being drunk is commonly a symbolic reference for accepting false doctrine. Fermentation of any kind is generally seen as symbolic reference for sin.

Is the doctrine of the Bible then tainted with sin?