Always Spirit-Filled Or A Leaky Vessel?

[Golgotha]

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

This is a promise for all those that come to & believe in Jesus Christ that they would never seek to be filled again after they have been saved.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

This describes the new reality for the saved believer in that he is a new creature always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God as saved.

So the idea that a believer needs to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit and or power or to have a continual anointing isn't valid. This verse below is about remaining sober as opposed to getting drunk with wine wherein there is excess.

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Power has been received when we got saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The anointing been with us since salvation. We should live our faith that Jesus is the Christ & He is in us to abide in Him for why we should not be chasing after another anointing unless we deny Him as in us from the beginning since we had been saved.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

We have been warned against seeking another Jesus or another spirit to receive that which was not received thus warned against another gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Some believers misread and misapply the verses in Acts about when disciples were filled with the Spirit when speaking or doing something, but that is just Luke giving an early history of the church for how His disciples were serving Him as led by the Spirit in them; Luke is not saying they were seeking to be filled with the Spirit before saying or doing those things in the ministry.

As it is, these misapplications goes against scripture above for thinking believers had to seek a continual supernatural spiritual filling of the Holy Spirit for anything. Jesus Christ is in us & is with us always. Our bodies ARE the temples of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Our seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us for He is not going anywhere.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

This is the testimony we all are supposed to share and not testify of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues nor another drink of the One Spirit for that goes against the testimony of John 6:35 & Matthew 9:17 & this below.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

If anyone considers the parable of the 10 virgins, five were foolish whereas 5 were wise in Matthew 25:1-13, then those seeking a continual filling of the Spirit can be seen as still out to the market whereas those wise knew they have been filled since salvation to be ready to go.

So if any believer finds himself or herself in dire strait, just go before that throne of grace for your time of need; no more filling of the Spirit required. Hebrews 4:12-16 We certainly do not need to be praying for a filling of the Spirit before any one can speak for Him.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

That is how you know believers are misapplying those verses in Acts wrong because readers are being informed as to how much it was the disciples and how much it was the Holy Spirit when speaking and doing those things in Acts for why Luke phrased it as "filled with the Spirit".

We are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we can be held accountable to what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit. No other calling to heed, nor any other baptism, nor another filling of the Holy spirit or else it would make the father look evil as if He did not give us the Holy Spirit the first time as promised for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Once received at our salvation, we would not ask for the promise again for we had come to Jesus & believed in Him as always Spirit-filled to not seek a filling ever again to satisfy any thirst nor any hunger.

 

[Norman]

I see it like this...I have a pond in my heart. Fresh water flows in and out. If it can't flow out, then it goes stagnant. If it can only flow out, then it dries up.
Living water is moving water. It needs to flow out and be replaced constantly for it to remain fresh!

 

[JLB]

Once received at our salvation, we would not ask for the promise again for we had come to Jesus & believed in Him as always Spirit-filled to not seek a filling ever again to satisfy any thirst nor any hunger.

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” Acts 19:1-2

• Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Are you saying we should not seek for the baptism with the Holy Spirit after we are saved?

 

[Golgotha]

I see it like this...I have a pond in my heart. Fresh water flows in and out. If it can't flow out, then it goes stagnant. If it can only flow out, then it dries up.
Living water is moving water. It needs to flow out and be replaced constantly for it to remain fresh!

Biblically though, Jesus cites a new reality for believers for why the living water flowing out us can never stop nor dry out since salvation.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

That is why what Jesus says here as a promise for all those that come to Him & to believe in Him, they will never thirst nor hunger again to seek to be filled at all.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So what the scripture says is inconsistent with your how you describe that living water in us to be.

 

[Golgotha]

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” Acts 19:1-2

• Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Are you saying we should not seek for the baptism with the Holy Spirit after we are saved?

Norman

Again, sometimes believers are not reading the Book of Acts and are misapplying what is going on to mean.

Before we begin, we need to understand why Luke had written Acts 19:1 by citing a certain disciple rather than just saying disciple sof Jesus Christ.

There are 3 kinds of disciples in Paul's days.

Mark 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

So there are the disciples of the Pharisees and the disciples of John the Baptist's and not just disciples of Jesus Christ. Three different kinds of disciples in Paul's days for why Luke had written that Paul came across certain disciples inferring that he did not know what kind in verse 1 below for why he had asked them about the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

So note how Paul had asked them of what water baptism they were under.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

So now Paul knows wat kind of disciples they were; John the Baptist's. Then Paul went on to tell them about Jesu Christ as the One John the Baptist was talking about.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, then they believed and became water baptized in Jesus's name in becoming His disciples & thus saved..

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

So they were never believers nor disciples of Jesus Christ in the first place until Paul told them about Jesus Christ and they believed and became water baptized in His name for when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation.

If they were believers in Jesus Christ back in those days, new believers would have been water baptized in His name in becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, but these twelve "disciples" were not but were disciples of John the Baptist's.

 

[Norman]

I'm just relating my experience leading Sunday morning worship at a Toronto-area Vineyard church during the second half of the 90s.

 

[hawkman]

Norman

Again, sometimes believers are not reading the Book of Acts and are misapplying what is going on to mean.

Before we begin, we need to understand why Luke had written Acts 19:1 by citing a certain disciple rather than just saying disciple sof Jesus Christ.

There are 3 kinds of disciples in Paul's days.

Mark 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

So there are the disciples of the Pharisees and the disciples of John the Baptist's and not just disciples of Jesus Christ. Three different kinds of disciples in Paul's days for why Luke had written that Paul came across certain disciples inferring that he did not know what kind in verse 1 below for why he had asked them about the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

So note how Paul had asked them of what water baptism they were under.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

So now Paul knows wat kind of disciples they were; John the Baptist's. Then Paul went on to tell them about Jesu Christ as the One John the Baptist was talking about.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, then they believed and became water baptized in Jesus's name in becoming His disciples & thus saved..

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

So they were never believers nor disciples of Jesus Christ in the first place until Paul told them about Jesus Christ and they believed and became water baptized in His name for when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation.

If they were believers in Jesus Christ back in those days, new believers would have been water baptized in His name in becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, but these twelve "disciples" were not but were disciples of John the Baptist's.

From what I read in Acts 18 Apollos was a Christian before meeting Paul .

24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

 

[Golgotha]

I'm just relating my experience leading Sunday morning worship at a Toronto-area Vineyard church during the second half of the 90s.

Yet we are not to believe every spirit but test them, otherwise, believers will believe every spirit that comes over them to be of God when it is not.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Verse 2 for the way it is phrased "is come" is referring to where the Spirit of Christ dwells presently as in our flesh. It is the same as Paul saying this;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Proof of that in testing the spirits is how John continues when someone confess NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, but referring to the spirit outside of us as coming over us as if the Holy Spirit has not been in us since salvation..

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So I leave it to you to test the spirits with the Lord's help, because scripture pretty much testify to any spirit coming over a believer later in life is that spirit of the antichrist that is in the world.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take anybody's eyes off of the Son in worship but the spirits of the antichrist ( antichrist meaning instead of Christ ) would.

Not sure how you can explain those verses away when it reads to me as a valid warning for why we should not believe every spirit but test them.

 

[Golgotha]

From what I read in Acts 18 Apollos was a Christian before meeting Paul .

24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: 28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for sharing but I believe it was after Aquila & Priscilla had shown Apollos the scripture more perfectly, he became a believer in Jesus Christ afterwards per verse 26.

Note how he was a "Jew" before in verse 24. So that what had happened in verse 26 for why he became a preacher about Jesus Christ afterwards.

 

[Norman]

Yet we are not to believe every spirit but test them, otherwise, believers will believe every spirit that comes over them to be of God when it is not.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Verse 2 for the way it is phrased "is come" is referring to where the Spirit of Christ dwells presently as in our flesh. It is the same as Paul saying this;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Proof of that in testing the spirits is how John continues when someone confess NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, but referring to the spirit outside of us as coming over us as if the Holy Spirit has not been in us since salvation..

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So I leave it to you to test the spirits with the Lord's help, because scripture pretty much testify to any spirit coming over a believer later in life is that spirit of the antichrist that is in the world.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take anybody's eyes off of the Son in worship but the spirits of the antichrist ( antichrist meaning instead of Christ ) would.

Not sure how you can explain those verses away when it reads to me as a valid warning for why we should not believe every spirit but test them.

I'm outta here!

 

[Golgotha]

I'm outta here!

Okay. Thanks for sharing. Be praying for you, brother.

Maybe someone else can explain how they can apply the warnings with His help to prove that they have not gone astray for seeking a continual filling just to ease my Biblical concerns, but I do not see how anyone can. They would be going against a lot of scriptures speaking plainly against it.

You are still my brother, but I shall hope in the Lord to help me to withdraw from you from further discussion on any matter from now on as commanded by the Lord. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-15

 

[for_his_glory]

Moving this thread to Biblical Growth & Study for a better fit as this forum is for Questions & Answers.

 

[Hopeful]

Okay. Thanks for sharing. Be praying for you, brother.

Maybe someone else can explain how they can apply the warnings with His help to prove that they have not gone astray for seeking a continual filling just to ease my Biblical concerns, but I do not see how anyone can. They would be going against a lot of scriptures speaking plainly against it.

You are still my brother, but I shall hope in the Lord to help me to withdraw from you from further discussion on any matter from now on as commanded by the Lord. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-15

I feel that one either has the Holy Ghost or they don't.
There is no 20, 40, 60% filled with God's Spirit.
We can, however, pray for growth in grace and knowledge.

 

[Golgotha]

I feel that one either has the Holy Ghost or they don't.
There is no 20, 40, 60% filled with God's Spirit.
We can, however, pray for growth in grace and knowledge.

All believers has the Holy Ghost and are always Spirit-filled since salvation.

Paul warned that there would be a falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils and know it not as in hypocrisy. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 It is hypocritical to believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation when they also believe He is still in them. That is the hypocrisy.

in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, Paul refers to that falling away from the faith again and how it will happen in droves before the Bridegroom comes which is to happen first before that son of perdition id revealed halfway thru that great tribulation event for which the great tribulation is after the rapture, the gathering of saints abiding in Him.

Then Paul mentioned that the iniquity for causing that falling away from the faith was happening even in his day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

Then Paul refers to those believers as "damned" ( as in left behind to become vessels unto dishonor in His House * more on that later for why they are still saved ) for believing that lie that they can receive the Holy Sirit again for why God permits that strong delusion to occur in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 since per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is why the Restrainer is taken out of the way in allowing seducing spirits or the spirits of the antichrist to come into believers, suffering that thief to break thru.

Believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again is reproved by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 by reminding us of the tradition taught of us for when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

* Now for why he damned are still saved even though they have fallen away from the faith ( that is not to say that God cannot recover come to be ready to go before the Bridegroom comes ) Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in the next chapter as wicked and unreasonable men for they have not faith nor walk after the tradition that Paul had just shared earlier for why they are "disorderly" in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 as Paul gives the commandment from the Lord in touching us as in helping us to withdraw from fellowship with those that have falling from faith.

But the commandment from the Lord to withdraw is not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still for why they are still saved in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 because they are still brothers.

This is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House still because those unrepentant saints and former believers left behind, He still abides in them per 2 Timothy 2:10-13 even though denied by Him at the rapture event. Paul gives an example of a former believer in 2 Timothy 2:18, but "nevertheless" Paul declares that foundation is still laid as that seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why even former believers are called to depart from iniquity ( with His help ) in 2 Timothy 2:19-21

So those that have fallen away from the faith, we are to seek their good in the Lord, in hoping God is peradventure to recover some from this snare of the devil so they can be received as vessels unto honor by the Bridegroom for when He comes. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 If not, they will be left behind in being "damned" forever as vessels unto dishonor but still in His House as a testimony to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name, which includes former believers too.

Those saints that believe the lie that they need a continual supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit, are still always Spirit-filled since salvation, but God is allowing the restraining part of the Holy Spirit in them to be taken out of the way to cause that strong delusion to occur. Like drinking wine in excess in reaping the work of drunkenness, so do they lose self control here in falling physically to those spirits for believing the lie that they can get another drink of the One Spirit by how we were all baptized into the body of Christ by as this apostasy was happening in the O.T. also.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So all believers are Spirit-filled since salvation, but when they fall away from the faith, they lose the fruit of temperance which is self control when the restraining part of the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way when God permits that strong delusion to occur that causes them to lose self control and fall when receiving those spirits of the antichrist.

They are still saved as in always Spirit-filled, but have lost the fruit temperance temporarily for why they are losing self control & falling in those strong delusions.

Thank you for sharing but just pointing out that they are brothers still, regardless.

 

[JLB]

Norman

Again, sometimes believers are not reading the Book of Acts and are misapplying what is going on to mean.

Before we begin, we need to understand why Luke had written Acts 19:1 by citing a certain disciple rather than just saying disciple sof Jesus Christ.

There are 3 kinds of disciples in Paul's days.

Mark 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

So there are the disciples of the Pharisees and the disciples of John the Baptist's and not just disciples of Jesus Christ. Three different kinds of disciples in Paul's days for why Luke had written that Paul came across certain disciples inferring that he did not know what kind in verse 1 below for why he had asked them about the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

So note how Paul had asked them of what water baptism they were under.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

So now Paul knows wat kind of disciples they were; John the Baptist's. Then Paul went on to tell them about Jesu Christ as the One John the Baptist was talking about.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, then they believed and became water baptized in Jesus's name in becoming His disciples & thus saved..

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

So they were never believers nor disciples of Jesus Christ in the first place until Paul told them about Jesus Christ and they believed and became water baptized in His name for when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation.

If they were believers in Jesus Christ back in those days, new believers would have been water baptized in His name in becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, but these twelve "disciples" were not but were disciples of John the Baptist's.

Again the question is...

Are you saying we should not seek for the baptism with the Holy Spirit after we are saved?

 

[Golgotha]

What you are saying tells me that you are ignorant about moves of the Holy Spirit and have listened to groups like CARM and probably deceiving spirits. Sucks to be you.

Unless you have quotes from those that represent CARM as doing so, I refrain from making statements like that. I am sure there are members in that forum that say things like that but not sure you can say the officials at CARM are saying that.

As it is as far as our discussion goes, the scriptures is how and why I am discerning the spirits by Jesus Christ in the defense of the faith which is the good fight.

I am telling you that you always have been Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that you are saved. That is the testimony we are all suppose to share.

It is you that went out from us to speak of another drink of the One Spirit; thus another baptism, and thus another calling other than the one hope of our calling.

So pretty much you are telling every saved Spirit-filled believer since salvation that they are ignorant because they did not experience what you had and apparently still having those experiences... to wit, I ask you, have you ever tested the spirits like the apostle John told you to do or do you just believe every spirit coming over you to be of God?

 

[Golgotha]

And if you're hearing voices, get some deliverance, will you?

If God's grace is sufficient for Paul for his thorn in the flesh, then God's grace is sufficient for me to suffer it so that neither you nor any one else should think of me higher than they ought to think for what the Lord has taught me by the scriptures in sharing with you all today.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

For all of your reports of continual filling phenomenon, how can you stop believers from thinking higher of you than they ought to think? I cannot see how you can. You share glory by those experiences that separates you from other believers even if you do not see that. You seek others to share in that glory in serving that "movement" in Toronto that will elevate them above the average believer, do you not?

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I am telling you the truth that you have always been Spirit-filled since salvation just like the rest of us for why you need to test those spirits by the scripture with the Lord Jesus Christ's help at that throne of grace rather than continue to believe every spirit coming over you is of God. 1 John 4:1-4 & 1 Thessalonians 5:21-24

I cannot do it for you. Hopefully, you will see His wisdom for why you should do this.

 

[Golgotha]

Again the question is...

Are you saying we should not seek for the baptism with the Holy Spirit after we are saved?

Since the baptism of the Holy Spirit only happens at our born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation, then there is no other baptism with the Holy Spirit to seek.

Those that promote it are just trying to make sense of that extra ad notable phenomenon in the life of a saved believer rather than testing the spirits as the apostle John warned in 1 John 4:1-6 even the tongues they bring because there is a pagan's supernatural tongue that has been in the world ( Isaiah 8:19 ) before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues which is a foreign language to speak unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ).

1 Corinthians 14:22 testify that tongues are not to serve as a sign to already saved believers about anything and yet they assume that extra phenomenon is proof of meaning different things to believers, like being called into the ministry, or as proof that there is another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

They fail to apply that verse to prove that is why there is no other baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues ad so they can discern that supernatural phenomenon as not of Him.

Some believers that insists on that other calling of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues to seek after, will testify that all those other phenomenon, like "slain in the spirit" & "holy laughter movement", are not of Him at all, but that's the thing; this phenomenon keeps happening by why many believe you can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again. Even one caught up in the slain in the spirit type movement mocked the one that only believe there is one other baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues but when that person tried to stop the church from continuing to allow that to happen, that tongue speaker fell also.

Jesus did warn about this in Matthew 7:13-27 for why many houses are falling now as per verse 27. They broaden the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son ( John 14:6 & John 10:1 ) when Jesus is the only way provided by the Father to come to Him in worship, prayer, & fellowship. That is why the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in how to honor the Father by because when we stop honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father in John 5:22-23.

If we consider the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us ( John 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) then how can we be led by the Spirit in any other way in worship?

And yet like gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles thus ecumenical in nature per Matthew 7:13-16, these phenomenon happen across the denominations like Catholics & Protestant churches, as it is no longer a Pentecostal/Charismatic streamlined event as reported by the 700 Club in favor of that phenomenon in 1997.

It does not always happen in all churches, but when it does, churches or individual believers will have a hard time convincing others that was not the Holy Spirit because it was in that moment that the focus in worship was on the Holy Spirit, and if they believe they can receive Him again apart from salvation, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur for why they lose self control & fall in these visiting phenomenon.

And nary do they test the spirits in according to our faith ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) when they just go along with it, wanting to believe it is of God. 1 John 4:1-4

So again, no. There is no other baptism with the Holy Ghost for already saved born again believers to seek after, after they have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Try not to read those extra phenomenon into Acts when many believers are not reading it rightly in applying it to mean there is a continual filling when scripture plainly says as written that there is no other filling after salvation so we can test the spirits knowing that extra phenomenon is not of God for He is in us since salvation..

 

[JLB]

Since the baptism of the Holy Spirit only happens at our born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation, then there is no other baptism with the Holy Spirit to seek.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17


Here we see that Samaria were coming to Christ, and having received the message of salvation through Phillip they were also baptized in water.

However, they hadn't received the baptism with the Spirit, so Peter and John came down and laid hands on them and they received the baptism with the Spirit, as the verse so plainly says... They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Water Baptism)



JLB

 

[Golgotha]

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17


Here we see that Samaria were coming to Christ, and having received the message of salvation through Phillip they were also baptized in water.

However, they hadn't received the baptism with the Spirit, so Peter and John came down and laid hands on them and they received the baptism with the Spirit, as the verse so plainly says... They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Water Baptism)



JLB

Correct. do note his truth in scripture;

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

That is written directly to the churches.

So what is happening in the Book of Acts? Why is Luke giving the background of the people in the area for why Simon was held in high regard but in infamy? It was because he was responsible for the afflictions of the people in that area by unclean spirits. His notoriety was being take away by Philip as the people & even Simon was misconstruing the Lord's working to be Philip's own.

Hence Philip developed a bunch of followers as "fans" in favor of him because of Simon. One may ascertain that was the gall of bitterness in Simon for why he continued to look to people for that source of power like Peter & John in laying on of their hands for the gifting of the Holy Spirit. at these people's salvation moment. Simon was still looking at Philip & Peter & John as if they had a power he could buy.

That was why Peter & John had to come down because the people's sights had to be taken off of Philip to Jesus Christ in receiving the promise by faith in Jesus Christ rather than by believing in the things Philip was preaching about out of fanfare of Philip. The fact that Peter & John still had to lift Simon's sight higher as in off of them to God aka Jesus Christ, is why Simon feeling guilt and distant from the Lord in asking them to pray for him not to be punished but to be saved as well.

This made Philip look like he was in error in serving Him for not noting why those people were wanting to be water baptized even though they believed in the "things" Philip preached about but not in a personal way in coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. I believe that is why Luke went on to share what happened to Philip afterwards to prove otherwise, when Philip was instructed to go down and preach to that Ethiopian eunuch. Philip questioned him as to make sure he was coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for that water baptism and he was. Then the Spirit transported Philip elsewhere as showing the Lord was still using him in the ministry.

So it was that area because of Simon and the people afflicted by him supernaturally that God had to be patient in drawing them unto the Son in lifting their sights off of Philip even though God was delivering them from unclean spirits caused by Simon as well as God doing other miracles besides deliver them from unclean spirits. Th people's area was on the man Simon for these supernatural afflictions and so naturally, they were looking a Philip as the ne doing those things rather than Jesus Christ. So it was a fault of the people for why they were getting water baptized by Philip for and not really his fault for why God sent Peter & John down so their sights would be off of him to Jesus Christ to receive the promise of the Spirit by coming to Jesus Christ by faith, as in believing in Jesus Christ..