Always Spirit-Filled Or A Leaky Vessel?

[Norman]

Peace.

 

[Golgotha]

This is Khundalini, an eastern mysticism, where participants lose self control in and can speak in gibberish nonsense. This video below compares the phenomenon in Christian churches as the same as in the occult.

That is why there can be no more filling of the Spirit or the receiving of the Holy Spirit since salvation so believers can test the spirits coming over them later in life as not the real Holy Spirit when He has been and still is in us since salvation.

1 Timohy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

 

[Golgotha]

I got the NO I expected .

One question for you . Using Acts 8:16 for a reference . Did you have anything fall on you when you were born again ?

It was not written that they had fallen when receiving the Holy Spirit at their salvation in Acts 8th event so why would you assume every believer has fallen when born again of the Spirit? I never read any where about believers falling when born again of the Spirit.

So no. I had not fallen by a supernatural phenomenon when I was born again when I had first believed in Jesus Christ back when I was a tot at the calling of the gospel.

 

[Norman]

When I say Vineyard, I am not talking about John Arnott or Pensacola.
The Vineyard I'm talking about is conservative evangelical. When with the Vineyard, we did to the least.
It had very little in common with charismania, word of faith, or the prosperity gospel. The Toronto Airport Vineyard Christian Fellowship was asked to leave the Association of Vineyard Churches in or around 1997. Many still call it a Vineyard, though it's not.
I know exactly what happened. The leader of the movement I was in was John Wimber, my pastor's mentor. My fellowship's overseer was a guy named John Arnott.
When the Lord moved in power in the Vineyard, leadership always encourages us not to focus on the manifestations, but on Jesus. I know...I was one of them.
There is the initial infilling of the Holy Spirit, and then there is a refilling for ministry so one doesn't burn out. Have you ever felt refreshed after a time of worship? That's the refilling I'm talking about.
Look, I'm sorry that I've been short with you. I ask your forgiveness.

 

[for_his_glory]

But today we have us many
who just go week by week to the same old church
and live by feeling and not by every Word of GOD .

I just wanted to say that emotions can be deceiving, as well I know, as they do not lead us to the true understanding of being Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit at the time of our salvation.

Many play church, but it is those who are truly Christ own through the Spiritual rebirth from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that are the true church (body of Christ) with He being the head of the body. Man can teach us nothing apart from the Holy Spirit teaching them first.

 

[Hopeful]

All believers has the Holy Ghost and are always Spirit-filled since salvation.

Paul warned that there would be a falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils and know it not as in hypocrisy. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 It is hypocritical to believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation when they also believe He is still in them. That is the hypocrisy.

in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, Paul refers to that falling away from the faith again and how it will happen in droves before the Bridegroom comes which is to happen first before that son of perdition id revealed halfway thru that great tribulation event for which the great tribulation is after the rapture, the gathering of saints abiding in Him.

Then Paul mentioned that the iniquity for causing that falling away from the faith was happening even in his day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

Then Paul refers to those believers as "damned" ( as in left behind to become vessels unto dishonor in His House * more on that later for why they are still saved ) for believing that lie that they can receive the Holy Sirit again for why God permits that strong delusion to occur in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 since per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is why the Restrainer is taken out of the way in allowing seducing spirits or the spirits of the antichrist to come into believers, suffering that thief to break thru.

Believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again is reproved by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 by reminding us of the tradition taught of us for when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

* Now for why he damned are still saved even though they have fallen away from the faith ( that is not to say that God cannot recover come to be ready to go before the Bridegroom comes ) Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in the next chapter as wicked and unreasonable men for they have not faith nor walk after the tradition that Paul had just shared earlier for why they are "disorderly" in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 as Paul gives the commandment from the Lord in touching us as in helping us to withdraw from fellowship with those that have falling from faith.

But the commandment from the Lord to withdraw is not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still for why they are still saved in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 because they are still brothers.

This is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House still because those unrepentant saints and former believers left behind, He still abides in them per 2 Timothy 2:10-13 even though denied by Him at the rapture event. Paul gives an example of a former believer in 2 Timothy 2:18, but "nevertheless" Paul declares that foundation is still laid as that seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why even former believers are called to depart from iniquity ( with His help ) in 2 Timothy 2:19-21

So those that have fallen away from the faith, we are to seek their good in the Lord, in hoping God is peradventure to recover some from this snare of the devil so they can be received as vessels unto honor by the Bridegroom for when He comes. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 If not, they will be left behind in being "damned" forever as vessels unto dishonor but still in His House as a testimony to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name, which includes former believers too.

Those saints that believe the lie that they need a continual supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit, are still always Spirit-filled since salvation, but God is allowing the restraining part of the Holy Spirit in them to be taken out of the way to cause that strong delusion to occur. Like drinking wine in excess in reaping the work of drunkenness, so do they lose self control here in falling physically to those spirits for believing the lie that they can get another drink of the One Spirit by how we were all baptized into the body of Christ by as this apostasy was happening in the O.T. also.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So all believers are Spirit-filled since salvation, but when they fall away from the faith, they lose the fruit of temperance which is self control when the restraining part of the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way when God permits that strong delusion to occur that causes them to lose self control and fall when receiving those spirits of the antichrist.

They are still saved as in always Spirit-filled, but have lost the fruit temperance temporarily for why they are losing self control & falling in those strong delusions.

Thank you for sharing but just pointing out that they are brothers still, regardless.

I really can't agree with much of that

 

[Hopeful]

Unless you have quotes from those that represent CARM as doing so, I refrain from making statements like that. I am sure there are members in that forum that say things like that but not sure you can say the officials at CARM are saying that.

As it is as far as our discussion goes, the scriptures is how and why I am discerning the spirits by Jesus Christ in the defense of the faith which is the good fight.

I am telling you that you always have been Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that you are saved. That is the testimony we are all suppose to share.

It is you that went out from us to speak of another drink of the One Spirit; thus another baptism, and thus another calling other than the one hope of our calling.

So pretty much you are telling every saved Spirit-filled believer since salvation that they are ignorant because they did not experience what you had and apparently still having those experiences... to wit, I ask you, have you ever tested the spirits like the apostle John told you to do or do you just believe every spirit coming over you to be of God?

It is interesting that you feel you have salvation before the final judgement.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi thanks for this but you said.. "Since the baptism of the Holy Spirit only happens at our born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation, then there is no other baptism with the Holy Spirit to seek."

The problem here is it goes against the word of God. Acts 1 takes care of all of this..lets look. He was already risen "to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God."

Lets keep reading "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

We keep reading " But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

When Christ said this they were already born again. Luke 11 13 is not old its not for only those that were under the OT law. He the Father will give the sweet holy Spirit to them that ask.

Others already said it.. JLB said it and also asked. For me I was saved then they asked if I wanted the holy Spirit.. and what happen to me was exactly like what happened in the word of God. Is still happening to day.. PRAISE GOD! For me.. oh it was like night and day. Everything He promised happened. I didn't already have it.

I know you were directing this to Golgotha, but wanted to chime in on this.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation and not a separate event. None were Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit until Jesus ascended up and the Holy Spirit was sent down on the day of Pentecost, Acts chapter 2.

John's water baptism was for the remission of sin as the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. It would not be until Jesus was taken up that the promise of the Holy Spirit would be sent down. No one was indwelled with the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

As far as I know scripture never says that Jesus baptized anyone in water, except some of his own disciples and even then it was not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit as Jesus had not yet ascended up to heaven.

Nowhere in scripture that I know of are believers told to be baptized with, in or by the Holy Spirit or in any sense to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit as we were already indwelled with the Holy Spirit the day of our salvation when we asked Jesus to be our Lord and Savior as we were then sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption Ephesians 4:30.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

The baptism of the Holy Spirit joins us to the body of Christ the day of our salvation. Being in His body means we are risen with Him to newness of life, Romans 6:3-4. Upon our salvation we also are to display the fruits of the Holy Spirit, Galatians 5:22-25, as this can only be done through the Holy Spirit that indwells us at the time of salvation.

 

[Hopeful]

I know you were directing this to Golgotha, but wanted to chime in on this.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation and not a separate event. None were Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit until Jesus ascended up and the Holy Spirit was sent down on the day of Pentecost, Acts chapter 2.

John's water baptism was for the remission of sin as the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. It would not be until Jesus was taken up that the promise of the Holy Spirit would be sent down. No one was indwelled with the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

As far as I know scripture never says that Jesus baptized anyone in water, except some of his own disciples and even then it was not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit as Jesus had not yet ascended up to heaven.

Nowhere in scripture that I know of are believers told to be baptized with, in or by the Holy Spirit or in any sense to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit as we were already indwelled with the Holy Spirit the day of our salvation when we asked Jesus to be our Lord and Savior as we were then sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption Ephesians 4:30.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

The baptism of the Holy Spirit joins us to the body of Christ the day of our salvation. Being in His body means we are risen with Him to newness of life, Romans 6:3-4. Upon our salvation we also are to display the fruits of the Holy Spirit, Galatians 5:22-25, as this can only be done through the Holy Spirit that indwells us at the time of salvation.

What is your definition of the word salvation?

 

[for_his_glory]

What is your definition of the word salvation?

SALVATION – delivered from sin, promise of our welfare brought about by faith in Christ Jesus.​

 

[Hopeful]

SALVATION – delivered from sin, promise of our welfare brought about by faith in Christ Jesus.​

Doesn't that clash with your view that there is always sin in the vessel?

 

[for_his_glory]

Doesn't that clash with your view that there is always sin in the vessel?

Not at all as Jesus will always forgive a humbled heart of repentance unless we willingly sin. Hebrews 10:26-27

Please do not make this about the false teaching of "Sinless Perfection" you believe in as those postings will be deleted.

 

[Golgotha]

I got the NO I expected .

One question for you . Using Acts 8:16 for a reference . Did you have anything fall on you when you were born again ?

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report..... 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

These verses are why the receiving of the promise of the Holy Spirit at our born again of the Spirit salvation moment is done by faith in Jesus Christ; not by sight as the world does when they receive spirits like mediums when they seek contact with ghosts. That is why the receiving of the Holy Spirit cannot be like as the world does.

Tongues were to serve as an outward sign to unbelievers; not for the believers to know as a sign that they had received the Holy host at their salvation moment.

I know you did not talk about tongues, but I am giving an example for why the sign of falling is not proof of anyone receiving the Holy Ghost, not even to unbelievers when that happens when sinners seek spirits like in Khundalini, an eastern mysticism before Pentecost came when His disciples were officially and Biblically saved by receiving that promise by faith in Jesus Christ, rather than by sight of Him..

The disciples had to share the same testimony as new believers at and after Pentecost about that salvation moment being by faith in Jesus Christ or else, because the promise was received directly by Jesus and thus by sight of Him, and new believers did not at and after Pentecost, they can doubt later in life as a saved believer that they were saved, because they were not "saved" like His disciples were in direct contact with Jesus Christ Himself.

It is because of these verses below is why our believing in Him is a manifestation or work of God the Father for how He drew us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Jesus Christ.

So the fact that a believer has believed & is saved, it is for that reason is evidence how God has saved him for why that is the good report.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Already saved believers looking for a sign in receiving the Holy Ghost, will find themselves receiving that phenomenon again and again in other ways as sinners do in seeking to receive spirits. They should repent from giving the appearance of an adulterous generation and return to their first love that they were saved and always had been Spirit-filled when they had first believed at the calling of the gospel.

One could say that Luke had written Acts 8 in that way because those potential believers were not believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel, but believing in Philip in the "things" he was preaching about & following him to behold the miracles out of fanfare, which apparently is not the same as coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. Their sights had to be lifted away from Philip & higher because of how that public high regard shifted from Simon to Philip naturally.

This happened to another set of potential believers in Acts.

Acts 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

So in spite of the preaching & the miracle, because of the mindset of the people, they applied their practice of idolatry to Barnabus and Paul rather than respond to Paul's preaching by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

So in Acts 8, the mindset of the public's high regards of Simon shifted from Simon to Philip and were not really paying attention to Philip's preaching to be coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

This is God the Father being patient towards potential new believers that were still sinners and thus unsaved until their sights were lifted higher away from His disciples in drawing them to come to the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

 

[Titus]

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report..... 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

These verses are why the receiving of the promise of the Holy Spirit at our born again of the Spirit salvation moment is done by faith in Jesus Christ; not by sight as the world does when they receive spirits like mediums when they seek contact with ghosts. That is why the receiving of the Holy Spirit cannot be like as the world does.

Tongues were to serve as an outward sign to unbelievers; not for the believers to know as a sign that they had received the Holy host at their salvation moment.

I know you did not talk about tongues, but I am giving an example for why the sign of falling is not proof of anyone receiving the Holy Ghost, not even to unbelievers when that happens when sinners seek spirits like in Khundalini, an eastern mysticism before Pentecost came when His disciples were officially and Biblically saved by receiving that promise by faith in Jesus Christ, rather than by sight of Him..

The disciples had to share the same testimony as new believers at and after Pentecost about that salvation moment being by faith in Jesus Christ or else, because the promise was received directly by Jesus and thus by sight of Him, and new believers did not at and after Pentecost, they can doubt later in life as a saved believer that they were saved, because they were not "saved" like His disciples were in direct contact with Jesus Christ Himself.

It is because of these verses below is why our believing in Him is a manifestation or work of God the Father for how He drew us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Jesus Christ.

So the fact that a believer has believed & is saved, it is for that reason is evidence how God has saved him for why that is the good report.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Already saved believers looking for a sign in receiving the Holy Ghost, will find themselves receiving that phenomenon again and again in other ways as sinners do in seeking to receive spirits. They should repent from giving the appearance of an adulterous generation and return to their first love that they were saved and always had been Spirit-filled when they had first believed at the calling of the gospel.

One could say that Luke had written Acts 8 in that way because those potential believers were not believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel, but believing in Philip in the "things" he was preaching about & following him to behold the miracles out of fanfare, which apparently is not the same as coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. Their sights had to be lifted away from Philip & higher because of how that public high regard shifted from Simon to Philip naturally.

This happened to another set of potential believers in Acts.

Acts 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

So in spite of the preaching & the miracle, because of the mindset of the people, they applied their practice of idolatry to Barnabus and Paul rather than respond to Paul's preaching by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

So in Acts 8, the mindset of the public's high regards of Simon shifted from Simon to Philip and were not really paying attention to Philip's preaching to be coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

This is God the Father being patient towards potential new believers that were still sinners and thus unsaved until their sights were lifted higher away from His disciples in drawing them to come to the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

I want us to all take note on the good example of how
correction and the fear of GOD ought to be put into those who do err .
Look at the response of peter . he did not down play the deadly danger
of sin which that man was in . He said very firm and very grave
what needed to be told to that man . And notice it actually did work
the man got scared and asked peter to pray for him .
Correction is a dire necessity . It works good unto the soul
of the one who hears and recieves the correction .
The problem with today is that for quite some time
due to seeker friendly and deadly tactics , correction was replaced
with the word JUDGE NOT . And man did the leaven fill up the churches
very fast . Its good that we really get dug into those pure reminders
in that bible so as we can truly take care of the church .

 

[Golgotha]

When I say Vineyard, I am not talking about John Arnott or Pensacola.
The Vineyard I'm talking about is conservative evangelical. When with the Vineyard, we did to the least.
It had very little in common with charismania, word of faith, or the prosperity gospel. The Toronto Airport Vineyard Christian Fellowship was asked to leave the Association of Vineyard Churches in or around 1997. Many still call it a Vineyard, though it's not.
I know exactly what happened. The leader of the movement I was in was John Wimber, my pastor's mentor. My fellowship's overseer was a guy named John Arnott.
When the Lord moved in power in the Vineyard, leadership always encourages us not to focus on the manifestations, but on Jesus. I know...I was one of them.
There is the initial infilling of the Holy Spirit, and then there is a refilling for ministry so one doesn't burn out. Have you ever felt refreshed after a time of worship? That's the refilling I'm talking about.
Look, I'm sorry that I've been short with you. I ask your forgiveness.

You are forgiven, brother. Mayhap the Lord will continue to use us as iron sharpens iron in His ministry again whereby either one of us may be pruned to bear more fruit.

Thanks for giving more background in wat you are involved in and preaching about, but I still have questions due to contentions I read in the scripture for why I am still concern for you as I do not believe a continual refilling of the Spirit is even necessary for preaching since I believe you & I have always been Spirit-filled since salvation.

The problem here is discerning what that phenomenon is since believers that experience this other filling or another anointing, all described it to mean something differently like a continual sanctification process or although they were believers for a long time, because they felt a spirit coming over them bringing tongues which comes with no interpretation, they had changed their testimonies to that moment for when they were saved.

A former neighbor across the street shared similar testimony for why I had asked her what she was reading in her Bible at the kitchen table that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant and then it dawned on her and she continued by sharing that she had asked her pastor because she had been a believer all her life and so what had happened at that kitchen table. She shared that he pastor pointed to Acts but she did not really conveyed where in Acts, but I am assuming Acts 2 for when the disciples were just doing everyday thing until the promise had come. I had assumed that from what she shared later on about how others were sharing similar testimonies about everyday things in summary for which I caught her rolling her eyes at in disbelief without explaining exactly why since she did not shared any of those other stories specifically in giving other examples of supposedly similar experiences like hers.

But I did point out that it would be hard for her to keep other believers from adding her testimony to that false teaching that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and are not saved, which she claimed she did not believe either. Anyway, you can see how she could not prevent that since she changed her testimony for when she was saved to experiencing that and getting tongues "all at once" as for "proof" that she was saved then and not before.

Joyce Meyers testified of receiving the Holy Spirit & getting tongues later in life as a saved believer also but she had believed that was God calling her into the ministry rather than change her testimony to that moment as when she was saved. She used that phenomenon for when she got tongues as that tongues was serving a sign to her, an already saved believer, that God was calling her into the ministry even though 1 Corinthians 14:22 testify that tongues only serve as a sign towards unbelievers, not towards believers for anything.

I believe your testimony of the continual anointing refers to this continual filling as discussed in this thread. I am not sure you can differentiate between the two. I cannot for why I believe the phenomenon is one and the same as manifesting in different ways but doing the same thing which is to take our eyes off of the Son in worship to these "visiting supernatural phenomenon" for why the real indwelling Holy Ghos would never do that, but always keep the spotlight on the Son.

I thank you for sharing that you always keep the spotlight on the Son to others in worship, but in retrospect, your testifying of the continual anointing was not keeping your eyes on the Son. You seem to seek if nor prefer that "anointing" to have proof or assurance that He will be ministering through you when you are at that pulpit ( even though there were times that it was not experienced, but you had preached anyway, unless you can correct me or clarify that point.

It is because of this reference.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

If we do not need to give a thought to speaking nor pray for that to happen, then why would there be a need to seek a "continual anointing" so we can speak for Him?

This is why I believe the anointing has always been with you since salvation for how you were an able minster preaching from the pulpit without having to experience what you deem as the receiving the anointing again in order to do that.

I do not doubt your experience of this "continual anointing" as real, but I still have contentions about that continual anointing being of God as I do about any continual filling of the Spirit as I see it as taking your eyes off of the Son in the pulpit for the having the experience of this continual anointing in order to speak or to minister.

Below testifies that there is no continual anointing since the initial anointing at our salvation has been received and still is with us since the beginning as for our abiding in Him.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Anyway, I do not see how you can ease my biblical concerns for you for why I still have contentions towards that continual anointing, even though I believe that anointing has been in you since salvation and so I do not believe that phenomenon is of God at all Biblically. I still believe you are my brother. Just testing that spirit as not of Him, but an unnecessary distraction that serves as a continual personal apostasy.

If you consider that your feeling this anointing comes or manifesting is when you feel "filled with the Spirit" to speak, then are you yet denying the anointing as always been in you since salvation and thus denying Jesus Christ in you?

I know that there is a danger of becoming double-minded on certain topics due to being unaware of false teachings for why our words do not always match what we believe at the core, but in this case, I believe that phenomenon is messing with you.

Again, maybe you can explain or clarify this to me to ease my Biblical concerns in regards to keeping our faith but as of this moment, I cannot see how you can justify that phenomenon as a continual anointing necessary or proof to yourself to speak for Him.

 

[Golgotha]

I want us to all take note on the good example of how
correction and the fear of GOD ought to be put into those who do err .
Look at the response of peter . he did not down play the deadly danger
of sin which that man was in . He said very firm and very grave
what needed to be told to that man . And notice it actually did work
the man got scared and asked peter to pray for him .
Correction is a dire necessity . It works good unto the soul
of the one who hears and recieves the correction .
The problem with today is that for quite some time
due to seeker friendly and deadly tactics , correction was replaced
with the word JUDGE NOT . And man did the leaven fill up the churches
very fast . Its good that we really get dug into those pure reminders
in that bible so as we can truly take care of the church .

Sometimes believer only quote "Judge not les ye be judged" as an excuse not to judge at all, but when read in context, Jesus is warning believers not to be hypocritical when judging or correcting others but be sure to lead by example also.

Matthew 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We can see that Jesus teaches us to correct those brothers when caught in a trespass or have gone astray.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

So when a brother refuses to repent even before the witness of the whole church to confirm the word to his correction & to his rebuke, the church is to excommunicate him until he does repent.

So obviously Jesus wants us to judge in correcting one another, just as long we are not being hypocritical about it if we are presently doing the same thing. Repent first and then you are able to correct others without hypocrisy.

 

[Titus]

You are forgiven, brother. Mayhap the Lord will continue to use us as iron sharpens iron in His ministry again whereby either one of us may be pruned to bear more fruit.

Thanks for giving more background in wat you are involved in and preaching about, but I still have questions due to contentions I read in the scripture for why I am still concern for you as I do not believe a continual refilling of the Spirit is even necessary for preaching since I believe you & I have always been Spirit-filled since salvation.

The problem here is discerning what that phenomenon is since believers that experience this other filling or another anointing, all described it to mean something differently like a continual sanctification process or although they were believers for a long time, because they felt a spirit coming over them bringing tongues which comes with no interpretation, they had changed their testimonies to that moment for when they were saved.

A former neighbor across the street shared similar testimony for why I had asked her what she was reading in her Bible at the kitchen table that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant and then it dawned on her and she continued by sharing that she had asked her pastor because she had been a believer all her life and so what had happened at that kitchen table. She shared that he pastor pointed to Acts but she did not really conveyed where in Acts, but I am assuming Acts 2 for when the disciples were just doing everyday thing until the promise had come. I had assumed that from what she shared later on about how others were sharing similar testimonies about everyday things in summary for which I caught her rolling her eyes at in disbelief without explaining exactly why since she did not shared any of those other stories specifically in giving other examples of supposedly similar experiences like hers.

But I did point out that it would be hard for her to keep other believers from adding her testimony to that false teaching that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and are not saved, which she claimed she did not believe either. Anyway, you can see how she could not prevent that since she changed her testimony for when she was saved to experiencing that and getting tongues "all at once" as for "proof" that she was saved then and not before.

Joyce Meyers testified of receiving the Holy Spirit & getting tongues later in life as a saved believer also but she had believed that was God calling her into the ministry rather than change her testimony to that moment as when she was saved. She used that phenomenon for when she got tongues as that tongues was serving a sign to her, an already saved believer, that God was calling her into the ministry even though 1 Corinthians 14:22 testify that tongues only serve as a sign towards unbelievers, not towards believers for anything.

I believe your testimony of the continual anointing refers to this continual filling as discussed in this thread. I am not sure you can differentiate between the two. I cannot for why I believe the phenomenon is one and the same as manifesting in different ways but doing the same thing which is to take our eyes off of the Son in worship to these "visiting supernatural phenomenon" for why the real indwelling Holy Ghos would never do that, but always keep the spotlight on the Son.

I thank you for sharing that you always keep the spotlight on the Son to others in worship, but in retrospect, your testifying of the continual anointing was not keeping your eyes on the Son. You seem to seek if nor prefer that "anointing" to have proof or assurance that He will be ministering through you when you are at that pulpit ( even though there were times that it was not experienced, but you had preached anyway, unless you can correct me or clarify that point.

It is because of this reference.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

If we do not need to give a thought to speaking nor pray for that to happen, then why would there be a need to seek a "continual anointing" so we can speak for Him?

This is why I believe the anointing has always been with you since salvation for how you were an able minster preaching from the pulpit without having to experience what you deem as the receiving the anointing again in order to do that.

I do not doubt your experience of this "continual anointing" as real, but I still have contentions about that continual anointing being of God as I do about any continual filling of the Spirit as I see it as taking your eyes off of the Son in the pulpit for the having the experience of this continual anointing in order to speak or to minister.

Below testifies that there is no continual anointing since the initial anointing at our salvation has been received and still is with us since the beginning as for our abiding in Him.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Anyway, I do not see how you can ease my biblical concerns for you for why I still have contentions towards that continual anointing, even though I believe that anointing has been in you since salvation and so I do not believe that phenomenon is of God at all Biblically. I still believe you are my brother. Just testing that spirit as not of Him, but an unnecessary distraction that serves as a continual personal apostasy.

If you consider that your feeling this anointing comes or manifesting is when you feel "filled with the Spirit" to speak, then are you yet denying the anointing as always been in you since salvation and thus denying Jesus Christ in you?

I know that there is a danger of becoming double-minded on certain topics due to being unaware of false teachings for why our words do not always match what we believe at the core, but in this case, I believe that phenomenon is messing with you.

Again, maybe you can explain or clarify this to me to ease my Biblical concerns in regards to keeping our faith but as of this moment, I cannot see how you can justify that phenomenon as a continual anointing necessary or proof to yourself to speak for Him.

Though you probably already know this ,out of great love
i will remind you and all others here as well that joyce meyers
is no one to be followed . She is a grave danger to the body of Christ .
I say this out of great love for all the lambs .

 

[Titus]

Sometimes believer only quote "Judge not les ye be judged" as an excuse not to judge at all, but when read in context, Jesus is warning believers not to be hypocritical when judging or correcting others but be sure to lead by example also.

Matthew 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We can see that Jesus teaches us to correct those brothers when caught in a trespass or have gone astray.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

So when a brother refuses to repent even before the witness of the whole church to confirm the word to his correction & to his rebuke, the church is to excommunicate him until he does repent.

So obviously Jesus wants us to judge in correcting one another, just as long we are not being hypocritical about it if we are presently doing the same thing. Repent first and then you are able to correct others without hypocrisy.

Yes indeed .

 

[Golgotha]

It is interesting that you feel you have salvation before the final judgement.

How do you preach the Good News about Jesus Christ as your Saviour unless you have been saved by Him? The fact that the Holy Spirit is in us always since salvation is proof that God has saved us at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed.

What we build on that foundation will be judged by Him per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 but that foundation remains as our salvation does even for those unrepentant carnal saints & former believers that gets left behind for not being ready when the Bridegroom comes. That seal of adoption is not going anywhere ( Ephesians 4:30 ) as those left behind will be resurrected after the great tribulation for He shall lose none, ( John 6:37-40, but which day will a believer find himself raised up in? Are we ready? Luke 12:40-49

 

[Golgotha]

Though you probably already know this ,out of great love
i will remind you and all others here as well that joyce meyers
is no one to be followed . She is a grave danger to the body of Christ .
I say this out of great love for all the lambs .

2 Thessalonians 3:1-15 says we are to withdraw from them but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers and sister still, because they still are, in the hopes that God will peradventure to recover some from that snare of the devil per 2 Timothy 2:24-26