Bible Study Am I Really Saved?: The Witness of the Holy Spirit.

[Tenchi]

Romans 8:12-16
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
​

What is the "witness of the Spirit with our spirit"? If it's a primary and vital means by which God communicates to us that we're His, we ought to be very clear on what the "witness of the Holy Spirit" is, right? Paul actually described some of what he meant by "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" in the things he wrote just prior to this statement.

1.) Putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit (vs. 13).
2.) Being led by the Spirit (vs. 14).
3.) Freedom from slavery and fear (vs. 15).


Putting to death (mortifying) the deeds of the body.

The born-again person experiences the "witness of the Spirit that they are God's children" as the Spirit enables them to put to death the sinful impulses and actions of the flesh. Sexual lust, over-eating, drunkenness, laziness, obsession over one's appearance, having a bad temper, bitterness and so on are all "works of the flesh" (Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Corinthians 3:1-5) and over these things the Spirit exerts his power, enabling the born-again person to experience the freedom from them that Paul described in Romans 6:1-11. The person who encounters this freedom-giving work of the Spirit within themselves can be sure they are one of God's adopted children.

This "putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit" is distinguished from fleshly efforts to do the same by two things:

1.) Going "from strength to strength."

The born-again person who is "walking in the Spirit," and by the Spirit's power putting to death to the deeds of the body, is connected to a supernatural reservoir of strength that never ends. Rather than growing exhausted by the activity of self-mortification, the person indwelt by the Spirit and under his control experiences a "river of living water flowing from their innermost being" that never runs dry (John 7:38). Accomplished in His power, the transformation God works in His child does not deplete them but increases their spiritual stability and strength.

2.) An increased knowledge of God.

The man who tries to accomplish God's ends in his life by fleshly means obtains only a greater knowledge of himself, of the powers of his own flesh. But a man who is "walking in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16, 24; Romans 12:1; 2 Corinthians 3:18, etc.) constantly under the Spirit's control, comes to know the Spirit's power and work within him. This experience of the Spirit's power and work, the knowledge of God it increases in the genuine child of God, is a vital testament to them of their adoption into His family.


Being led by the Spirit

What is it to be "led of the Spirit"? Well, it isn't a "still, small voice" in your head, whispering faintly to you which socks to choose to wear, or which university you should attend, or whether or not you should take the right, or left, path in the public park. It isn't an "inner impulse," a "special knowing," a "feeling of certainty or peace," that dictates whether or not you will do a, or b, or c. No, the Spirit "brings to remembrance" the word of God, the truth, wisdom, principles and commands of Scripture (Psalms 1; Psalms 119; Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 Peter 2:2) and in so doing guides the born-again believer (John 14:26).

In Scripture, whenever God wanted to communicate directly with someone, He never failed to do so. Even with those who didn't want to hear from Him, or who were not expecting to hear from Him, He still was able to be crystal clear and unmistakable in what He had to say to them. Whether it was with a burning bush, or angelic visitors, or an audible voice speaking from the air, or a disembodied hand writing on a wall, or dreams, or visions, or finger-pointing prophets, or a talking donkey, God always communicated with people in ways they could not miss or confuse.

If you are at all uncertain, then, that you've heard from God, you haven't. If you have to strain to "hear God," or take years of special weekend seminars in order to be able to do so, you aren't hearing from God. No, those to whom the Spirit is witnessing that they are God's, are always led clearly and unmistakably by the Spirit through God's word which the Spirit brings to the minds of those who've studied it carefully.


Freedom from slavery and fear.

The love of God is "shed abroad in the hearts" of those whom God has made His own (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:21). Instead of a constant, craven fear of God's wrath and judgment, the genuine child of God, living under the Spirit's control, is filled more and more with divine love. Instead, of cowering before God in fear of being ejected from His family, the Spirit fills the submitted believer with the love that he is, moving them toward God, their merciful, gracious, patient, faithful "Abba," in joy and confidence.

Hebrews 10:19-22
19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 4:16-19
16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
19 We love because he first loved us.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Very helpful

 

[Tenchi]

Bump.

 

[for_his_glory]

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Great Post: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 8&version=KJV;NIV

Love, Walter

 

[Christ_empowered]

I’m making it a point to read more scripture daily. A special thanks to Tenchi for helping move me in that direction.

I do think the genuine conversion concept save revisited by the church at large. Probably won’t happen. Apparently lots of churches are closing in the USA but megachurch membership is growing. In general, I think that’s going to be bad news .

 

[donadams]

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13

 

[grace2]

Jesus is the authority of salvation.

So you don't know until Jesus says so.

Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

You should not be self-claiming to be saved.

Doing so will usurp Jesus' authority.

blessings.

 

[donadams]

Jesus is the authority of salvation.

So you don't know until Jesus says so.

Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

You should not be self-claiming to be saved.

Doing so will usurp Jesus' authority.

blessings.

Right Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

 

[Tenchi]

donadams:

Clearly, you've posted the ridiculously-long list of verses/passages in post #7, not because you want to engage on them, but in order to prevent engagement. Why is that? In other threads, I have gone through many of the verses/passages you've listed and shown that they don't make the case you think they do. But addressing them all again would take me many, many hours which is, I suspect, exactly why your list is so long. It seems your hope is that your excessive list, preventing response by its length, will give the impression that the list is legitimate, properly handling God's word, saying what you're making it say. Well, it doesn't. And this is revealed in part, by the fact that you haven't engaged seriously with the OP at all.

 

[Tenchi]

Jesus is the authority of salvation.

So you don't know until Jesus says so.

Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

You should not be self-claiming to be saved.

Doing so will usurp Jesus' authority.

blessings.

This ignores/deflects the OP entirely. Why is that? Nothing you've written here even begins to counter what I pointed out from God's word concerning assurance of salvation.

 

[grace2]

This ignores/deflects the OP entirely. Why is that? Nothing you've written here even begins to counter what I pointed out from God's word concerning assurance of salvation.

You added your own definition, not from Jesus' own word meaning made up your own.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus is the authority of salvation.

So you don't know until Jesus says so.

Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

You should not be self-claiming to be saved.

Doing so will usurp Jesus' authority.

blessings.

We do know for a surety that we are Christ own by faith and obedient to His commands. John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; 1John 5:1-12; Galatians 5:16-26.

 

[grace2]

We do know for a surety that we are Christ own by faith and obedient to His commands. John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; 1John 5:1-12; Galatians 5:16-26.

But you are not a judge of salvation.

Jesus is.

 

[for_his_glory]

But you are not a judge of salvation.

Jesus is.

I can know for a surety I am a Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of God by the love I have for Him That is not judging my salvation, but knowing I am His own. Colossians 3:1-4

Am I perfect, no, but strive everyday for that perfection that is in Christ.

 

[Tenchi]

You added your own definition, not from Jesus' own word meaning made up your own.

No, I didn't.

 

[grace2]

No, I didn't.

What makes you think Jesus gave you the authority to judge?

Jesus is the Lord, remember?

 

[grace2]

I can know for a surety I am a Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of God by the love I have for Him That is not judging my salvation, but knowing I am His own. Colossians 3:1-4

Am I perfect, no, but strive everyday for that perfection that is in Christ.

Whether you are born again or not, it is not your call to claim.

 

[Free]

Whether you are born again or not, it is not your call to claim.

The Bible says otherwise:

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Joh 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
…
Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
…
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

(All ESV.)

 

[donadams]

But you are not a judge of salvation.

Jesus is.

What does Jesus say are the requirements of salvation?
Thanks