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AMERICA: NEW ROME & BABYLON THE GREAT ("Come out of her, My people...")

This is the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, not attacking Israel at end times.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. How could have Jesus planted His feet on the Mt. of Olives in 70AD? There were around 23 nations in 70AD. When were all 23 called by God at the same time to battle against Jerusalem? Read all of Zechariah 14 as this is prophetic of the last days when Christ returns, Rev 19.
 
During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. How could have Jesus planted His feet on the Mt. of Olives in 70AD? There were around 23 nations in 70AD. When were all 23 called by God at the same time to battle against Jerusalem? Read all of Zechariah 14 as this is prophetic of the last days when Christ returns, Rev 19.

This phrase, "all Nations," are you sure the original language doesn't just say goyem? That is different from our modern understanding of "all Nations."
 
You're making symbolic and abstract things that are not symbolic or abstract, and confusing kingdoms with people. Both kingdoms and kings are described as beasts in the Revelation and the book of Daniel, but confusing what is referring to actual people with what is referring to kingdoms or governments is a mistake. Knowing what refers to what, and what is literal and what is symbolic requires God-given understanding about what we read.

Just to set the record straight:

The antichrist (aka the first beast) is a person, a man, and not a system. He will be a Jew, and will fulfill---for those Jews who are not of God's elect and do not receive Jesus Christ as their Savior---the Messianic prophecies, and will be received and worshiped by them as their king and their god. He will be the head of the one world government, which is also described as a beast.

The false prophet (aka the second beast) is also a man, and will likely either be a pope or a priestly religious figure in the new religion of the antichrist---whatever offices and titles that religion may have.

And while the seal of God is spiritual---a metaphor for being sealed with the Holy Spirit (that is, born again/saved)---the mark of the beast will be an actual mark on people's hands or foreheads. The Greek word "charagma", translated as "mark" means a stamp, imprint or engraving---like a brand, or possibly a tattoo. It won't be a microchip, or an action of some kind ("doing this or that is taking the mark of the beast"), but an actual mark, voluntarily received by those who wish to buy and sell under the government of the antichrist, and not forced upon people (at least not Christians)---the consequences of not taking it notwithstanding.

(And the image of the beast will be an actual image that people will be worshiping, like a statue---probably in the likeness of the antichrist---just like King Nebuchadnezzar set up a golden image for people to worship.)

Rev 13:
The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is the Jesuit Luciferians with their headquarters in the Church of Gesu in Rome.

Rome had total control from 538 AD to 1798 which equals 1260 years that equal time, times and a half time as once again history will repeat itself in the annihilation of Gods anointed during the end of days.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. Seven of these nations are the ancestors of the modern nations of Europe.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

What was and was not and yet to come has always been the Roman Empire that has always persecuted Gods chosen from the foundation of the world whose name is found written in the Lambs book of life. The beast out of the sea is the revived Roman Empire as its deadly wound is now healed as we see in John’s vision as Satan gives this beast his power, seat and great authority.

The beast was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and power was given unto him to continue for three and a half years which equals 1260 days, Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations just as it was during the Babylonian Empire.

Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. The strength in Rome is that of deceit and evil heresies that Satan works through to destroy everything that God has already established in His timing and Laws. Jesus upheld the laws demanding that the spirit as well as the legal aspects of the laws be observed. Jesus did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law, Matthew 5:17-20. The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under the Roman religious doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.
 
I'm not positive that there will not be any kind of device involved in the mark, but the mark itself is going to be something visible, not something implanted under the skin that cannot be seen, like a microchip----or something spiritual; and it's not symbolic. It's going to be an actual, physical mark. I think it's possible that the mark might be given to identify people who have received an implanted device of some kind for the purpose of buying and selling---like a brand, to show that they have received the device.

IMO the mark is nothing more than the thoughts of the mind and the actions of the hands in the time of the greatest tribulation that the world has ever seen or will ever see again, Matthew 24:21. When the beast out of the land comes to set up his false kingdom promising peace, safety and provision in a time of total chaos he will deceive many to bow down to him and can also deceive the very elect of God if possible, Matthew 24:24.
 
God is not protecting America or any other nation as during the end of days He is sending all nations to battle against Jerusalem, Zechariah 14:1,2; Luke 21:20. This will include America as in part of the all. God is only keeping those who are His own that are sealed with the Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:1-14, but yet we are not exempt from persecution or death by the hands of another, Matthew 10:28.
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. yes a nation is made up of people and he is coming back for a people. when storms are in the area i Ask the Lord TO PROTECT OUR HOME.. he has protected our nation we have not experienced war on our homeland .we are far from perfect we use to have churches and revivals souls saved .but because iniquity has a bound the Love of many has waxed cold.
 
That would be a spiritual "mark." I've heard that taken as far as simply being in pursuit of wealth, happiness, pleasure, or general selfishness. I don't think that fits with what Scripture has to say.

I notice that in the 70's a literal understanding of the phrase about not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast was seen as radical, and now that is much more mainstream. I have always felt it must be referring to something literal, but I'm not prepared to say what. It will be possible for Christians to miss this, and be deceived ...

It is literal. The mark of the beast is NOT a spiritual mark. And if you don't have it, you will actually not be able to buy or sell, just as the Bible says. This particular thing is not symbolic. There are many things in the Revelation and the book of Daniel which are symbolic or spiritual, but the mark of the beast is not one of them; just as the antichrist and the false prophet are actual people---actual men---and not figures or symbols of something else.

Spiritualizing the literal and literalizing the spiritual is a result of deception or misunderstanding on the part of the reader. The Holy Spirit has to give us the right understanding of what is what in the Scriptures, or we cannot properly understand what is written. (For everything that is written, there are a dozen interpretations of what it means; but the correct interpretation belongs to God, and only He can give it.)

Of course, everyone will know that the mark is an actual, physical mark when the mark is implemented---unless, by some trickery, the antichrist and the false prophet, and/or various deceived persons, tell Christians that the mark is not really the mark, because the mark is not literal, but that something else is really the mark. (It wouldn't surprise me.)

Does anyone really believe that the antichrist will present himself as the Scriptural antichrist, even though it will be obvious to Christians that that is what he is? So why wouldn't he present his mark as something other than the damning mark that it actually is? The devil knows Scripture; he used it against Jesus in the wilderness. Does anyone really think that the antichrist or the false prophet won't have a knowledge of the prophetic Scriptures concerning the antichrist and the false prophet, and won't try to portray themselves as something else, rather than the fulfillment of those Scriptures?

Wherever there is Scriptural truth, the demons will work to confuse it. The persuasion that the mark of the beast is something spiritual or symbolic, rather than literal, is probably from them.
 
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. yes a nation is made up of people and he is coming back for a people. when storms are in the area i Ask the Lord TO PROTECT OUR HOME.. he has protected our nation we have not experienced war on our homeland .we are far from perfect we use to have churches and revivals souls saved .but because iniquity has a bound the Love of many has waxed cold.
(What we need is a "revival" of practically unholy, self-loving, rebellious saints washing their soiled robes. God still expects a holy people, and He is going to have a holy people. Those whose robes are soiled had better sober up and clean up, or they will be cleaned out. Judgment is about to begin at the household of God.)
 
This phrase, "all Nations," are you sure the original language doesn't just say goyem? That is different from our modern understanding of "all Nations."

IMO I think even in the original language all nations would mean all nations as in people who are of God and those who are enemies of God throughout the world.
 
(What we need is a "revival" of practically unholy, self-loving, rebellious saints washing their soiled robes. God still expects a holy people, and He is going to have a holy people. Those whose robes are soiled had better sober up and clean up, or they will be cleaned out. Judgment is about to begin at the household of God.)
ya know in some ways i agree but see this relationship with Christ is personnel .. what did paul say we was to do about a brother overtaken in fault ?
Galatians 6:
2nd chronicles 7:14 is a great scripture for each one of us to practice . all we can do is pray
 
This phrase, "all Nations," are you sure the original language doesn't just say goyem? That is different from our modern understanding of "all Nations."

IMO I think even in the original language all nations would mean all nations as in people who are of God and those who are enemies of God throughout the world.
It is literal. The mark of the beast is NOT a spiritual mark. And if you don't have it, you will actually not be able to buy or sell, just as the Bible says. This particular thing is not symbolic. There are many things in the Revelation and the book of Daniel which are symbolic or spiritual, but the mark of the beast is not one of them; just as the antichrist and the false prophet are actual people---actual men---and not figures or symbols of something else.

Spiritualizing the literal and literalizing the spiritual is a result of deception or misunderstanding on the part of the reader. The Holy Spirit has to give us the right understanding of what is what in the Scriptures, or we cannot properly understand what is written. (For everything that is written, there are a dozen interpretations of what it means; but the correct interpretation belongs to God, and only He can give it.)

Of course, everyone will know that the mark is an actual, physical mark when the mark is implemented---unless, by some trickery, the antichrist and the false prophet, and/or various deceived persons, tell Christians that the mark is not really the mark, because the mark is not literal, but that something else is really the mark. (It wouldn't surprise me.)

Does anyone really believe that the antichrist will present himself as the Scriptural antichrist, even though it will be obvious to Christians that that is what he is? So why wouldn't he present his mark as something other than the damning mark that it actually is? The devil knows Scripture; he used it against Jesus in the wilderness. Does anyone really think that the antichrist or the false prophet won't have a knowledge of the prophetic Scriptures concerning the antichrist and the false prophet, and won't try to portray themselves as something else, rather than the fulfillment of those Scriptures?

Wherever there is Scriptural truth, the demons will work to confuse it. The persuasion that the mark of the beast is something spiritual or symbolic, rather than literal, is probably from them.

Since scripture does not tell us what the mark will be then one can only speculate in theory what it could be. Full context of OT with NT and history does tell us who the beast out of the sea and out of the land is. It's all a Luciferian controlled system of political, military, economic and false religious system that will cause even the elect of God if possible to bow down to the son of perdition.
 
IMO I think even in the original language all nations would mean all nations as in people who are of God and those who are enemies of God throughout the world.

It makes quite the difference in terms of your topic here. Either it's literally all Nations, or it's figuratively goyem.
 
It makes quite the difference in terms of your topic here. Either it's literally all Nations, or it's figuratively goyem.

First it's not my thread, but only what I am adding to it like all of us are doing so we can discuss the topic. The word goyim is the same in the Hebrew language and English which means one who is not of God (non Jewish) found in all nations.
 
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