Amy Winehouse and the way we think of her death.

[Lewis]

I see, so those of us who are not addicts or have not been should just sit down, keep quiet, and not have an opinion on the matter because we just don't know what heck we are talking about. That it?

No not at all, there are many college educated addictions counselors now who has never touched illegal drugs. And they do very good, but they do not have first hand knowledge. So there understanding only goes so far. But yes you should have your opinions.

 

[Danus]

I know kids who are already addicted to drugs, no offense to anyone who is addicted or has been addicted, I don't understand why anyone would start in the first place. There are plenty of opportunities to use, it's all around my high school, but I don't because I see what it did to those kids who are addicted.

When I was young I did my share of soft drugs like pot and we drank beer and acted a fool, had parties and stuff.

I grew up pretty sheltered I guess, but I had my own issues like anyone, I just never covered them up with drugs and alcohol. I grew up in a preppy frat-ville around Dallas TX. I knew this one guy who we brought into our ----- fold of male youth foolishness who took to smoking pot like a baby duck (To water that is). I never could understand that.

He always had it, and I thought it was because he was kind of new and just wanted to be invited to the party for what he could bring. He started making less than acceptable friends to us, and I told him; "You know, you don't have to have pot to be accepted. Your already in." But I found out latter that he was making the contacts not for the pot, but because he knew that where he could buy pot there could be other stuff.

He got kicked out of college for drug use. somehow joined the military and something happened there over his drug use and in the 90's moved to Seattle. Never saw or heard of him since.

Then just a few months ago I run into an old mutual friend who informed me that he still talks to this guys sister and she informed him that dude killed himself with a hand gun in 2003. He was addicted to heroine and had tried to get off of it several times.

I remember him always idolizing his father. his dad was a prominent attorney and had mapped out his son's life to include working for the firm some day. He would hold Robbie (his name was Rob) to the plan by applying money and stuff when Robbie followed the plan. I think Robbie liked it and felt secure in his fathers shadow and the use of pot and drugs was for fun and just selfish pleasure at first. But, his dad died shortly after high school graduation.

I guess he felt lost after that and used the drugs to escape. From there, down was the only direction, but that's the way we think sometimes in terms of up or down. We don't think of to the side much, but Christ offers us out. I still believe that.

people talk about "addictive personality" and the "disease" of addiction. I understand these terms, but I think, like some have said, they are more cop-out terms used as an excuse for something people just refuse to let go of because to them it's the only answer and they are too afraid to stop because they don't think they can handle sobriety in a fallen world they still value. For them the only out is death since they don't measure up to the world in some way.

 

[Vic C.]

So she was 27...very sad.

I won't be the least bit surprised if her death was a suicide, then.

thelords, I'm not mocking her death...not at all. This whole 27 Club thing is really horrible...so many of these young "stars" can't keep up with the drugs, the fame, and the craziness of it all. Suicide at 27 seems to be sort of a "cult" way of escape...that gets celebrated.

I am sorry for her...she looked to drugs to solve her problems...they never have for anyone nor will they ever.

I skipped over the rest of the posts because I agree with Dora's assessment and wanted to respond before I lost my train of thought. It is sad and this is why:

She wasn't a child of God. She has said some negative things about our faith in the past but that is forgivable. She died before knowing the Lord as we do. The angels in Heaven do not rejoice over a lost soul.

That is the sad thing about anyone who dies not knowing the Lord. They truly miss out on being one of God's children for all eternity.

 

[Nick]

I skipped over the rest of the posts because I agree with Dora's assessment and wanted to respond before I lost my train of thought. It is sad and this is why:

She wasn't a child of God. She has said some negative things about our faith in the past but that is forgivable. She died before knowing the Lord as we do. The angels in Heaven do not rejoice over a lost soul.

That is the sad thing about anyone who dies not knowing the Lord. They truly miss out on being one of God's children for all eternity.

Perhaps not a child of God, but a human created in the image of God, by God.

---

This is sad. We should be saddened that she went this way, and not knowing the Lord. But what a good opportunity to talk about the destructive consequences of drug addiction, and for that matter, any addiction.

 

[Lewis]

Good post Nick.

 

[Danus]

Perhaps not a child of God, but a human created in the image of God, by God.

---

This is sad. We should be saddened that she went this way, and not knowing the Lord. But what a good opportunity to talk about the destructive consequences of drug addiction, and for that matter, any addiction.

Any thoughts then, on addiction?

I'll start it off by making a bold statement. I think people turn to mind altering substances because they are afraid; afraid of this world...and I'm talking about this fallen world.

We hear that addiction is a disease, and we also hear that it's hereditary. The problem I have with these ideas is ...
1. There is no human genome found that causes addiction.
2. Addiction is not something you catch. It's not in the air. It's not transmitted from anyone to anyone, and it's not something one naturally develops due to the degeneration of their physical body, or some alteration within their physical make up. You can't see it under a microscope. You can't grow it in a petri-dish. And it's not indigenous to any one part of the world.
3. calling addiction a disease or hereditary, only allows an addict, those who love that person, and society in general to whip out a ready made excuse for a persons chosen, at some point, decisions and behavior. ....and we like to think that's compassion. ....is it?

"But Danus, you don't understand some people are battling depression and they turn to drugs to cope sometimes!"

I realize people battle depression, and some people have a harder time than others with it, But that is no excuse either.

I find it ironic that in this modern age we have all these prescription drugs to treat depression, yet people are still depressed. Science says that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, but they can't tell you what balance of chemicals is right or wrong. What did we do before all these drugs for depression that apparently don't work all that well?

We worked it out as best we could. Maybe depression is a good thing. People become depressed when life does not meet up to their expectations. (period) call it a chemical imbalance if you want, but it's the same thing, and the only cure for that is to change one's expectations to conform to what just is. How you deal with that is another matter.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I got over my pill problem by simply (re)learning self-control. I didn't go to therapy for it or go to 12 step programs or whatever. I'm not saying "Look at me! I'm an overcomer!," because I was still a pretty lame, sinful person then, but I am saying that this idea that addiction is a "disease" that requires lots of attention from mental health professionals is a bit of a stretch.

As for depression...I don't know what to think. There's apparently some evidence that in the vast majority of cases, a lot of the "help" that comes from antidepressants is a placebo effect. I think a lot of "depression" is existential angst--what is life about? what is the meaning of all this?--and/or problems rooted in psychosocial issues (employment issues, marital problems, financial problems, bad experiences, etc.). I agree with Danus that sometimes its as simple as life simply not meeting one's expectations.

I don't know that drugs are the way to handle misery. I'm hardly one to talk--I take meds for psychosis--but I find it kind of odd that the same mental health professionals who are always telling us to stay off drugs, get treatment (from them) if you are on drugs, blah blah blah, push drugs on us to get "better." I mean, really? Apparently, drugs aren't the answer...except when we say they are (which is most of the time, btw). I've seen enough burned out mental patients (I've been one myself--thank God I was saved from that) to know that drugs are drugs are drugs...some are legal, some are illegal, but either way, overuse creates more problems than it solves.

 

[Danus]

I hear you Christ_empowered.

When I first got my real job and working in the "corporate world" I thought coming home to a tumbler of Makers Mark every night was just my way of relaxing like a real corporate business man. ;) I was 27 then just like Amy was...it's not a problem. I deserve it. I work hard and I can afford it.

Then a few 6 months later while sipping on my third glass and stumbling to my chair I thought....what the (- ) I'm I doing? I just stopped. I know it's not maybe the same as your deal, but I realized I made the decision to do that and I was going to make the decision to not do that.

I did not want to be a drunk. I know the end is not the same for everyone....but the beginning is.

BTW, where did or does your Love of Christ play into your situation? Any words on that?

 

[Christ_empowered]

Hey Danus.

Christ got a hold of me after I'd stopped the pills. I mean, I'm sure God was with me during the whole thing, but I didn't come to my senses and say yes to Christ until fairly recently. At this point, my love of Christ keeps me going. I slip up (a lot), but a sense of having been saved and being in the process of being saved keeps me steady. More importantly, my growing love for Christ orders my existence, because while at first I saw Him as Savior and Counselor, I'm now trying more to see Him as sovereign Lord. Its not easy, and I often fail or get a bit rebellious like a kid (seriously? I can't do ___!), but I'm trying, and that pays off big time. Although I'm pretty sure that mental illness can afflict everyone, good and bad, sin only makes madness that much more miserable and unbearable. At this point, I think I can say that loving Christ has helped me curb my excessive self-love (which before led to self-destruction) and provided stability along with development of character, which is often sorely lacking in those who abuse drugs and alcohol (I know that certainly was the case for me).

 

[Lewis]

Danus everyone is not the same, people are people and they have their faults and that's the bottom line. So don't expect everyone to deal with their addictions alike. Your bottom is not the bottom of someone else. And also people become addicted for all types of reasons. And yest the mental condition of a person can play a huge and I mean huge role in it.

 

[Nick]

Any thoughts then, on addiction?

Ha, fair enough then. Since I brought up that this is a good opportunity to talk about thoughts on addictions I guess I should say something.

I don't really have much experience with addictions, certainly not drug addictions, however I do struggle with sexual sin. I guess parts of that can be an addiction, if you know what I mean. That's really my area of weakness, and has been for a long time. I've just put my foot down and am currently about halfway through a book titled Every Young Man's Battle: Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation by Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker, and I'm finding it's really helpful.

In this area of my life, I know that the addiction takes over other areas of your life, and negatively impacts my relationshiip with God. I've made a strong stand in recent weeks and I feel a lot better already. It's a tough battle, but worh fighting, assuming you can get yourself started.

Any addiction is bad, as it takes away from your relationship with God and puts other things before Him. I think many of us have a narrow-minded view of addictions, and think of them just as sex, alcohol and drugs, but really it is such a broad concept, and such a massive issue for Christians. So very harmful.

 

[jasoncran]

i think with drugs we have one wierd society, in one part its eschewed and the other part its embraced. ie the music industry and hollywood.

i could replace the word drug with also nicks and an area i struggle with as well. society seems to bred this stuff. this doesnt exempt the guilty but it doesnt help them either.

 

[Lewis]

Family say farewell to "angel" Winehouse

<cite></cite>
LONDON (Reuters) - The family of Amy Winehouse gathered at a north London cemetery on Tuesday to bid farewell to their "angel," three days after the troubled singer was found dead at her home.
Some 100 mourners, including Winehouse's producer Mark Ronson and Kelly Osbourne, attended the traditional Jewish funeral that closed with her father Mitch saying: "Good night my angel, sleep tight; Mummy and Daddy love you ever so much."
A family spokesman said Carole King's "So Far Away" was played at the end of the service. King's "You've Got a Friend" was the first song Amy and her father had sung together.
In a eulogy at the private service, Mitch Winehouse said his 27-year-old daughter had been happier in recent months than she had been for years, and was looking forward to a future with her boyfriend of the past two years, film director Reg Traviss, 35.
Earlier, Traviss had denied rumors the singer died in a drug-fueled haze.
"She had been full of life and so upbeat recently, exercising every day and doing yoga," he told the Sun newspaper. "This terrible thing that happened is like an accident."
An inquest opened on Monday and was adjourned until October, with police describing the death as unexplained and an autopsy failing to determine the cause of death. More medical tests are being carried out, with the results expected next month.
Tributes to the "Back to Black" singer continued to pour in. Her talent was eclipsed over recent years by her battles with drugs and alcohol, and her last stage appearances had been derided as shambolic.
Singer Adele wrote on her website: "i don't think she ever realised just how brilliant she was and how important she is, but that just makes her even more charming.
"although im incredibly sad about Amy passing im also reminded of how immensely proud of her i am as well. and grateful to be inspired by her. Amy flies in paradise xx"
Winehouse was the most soulful vocalist Britain had ever seen, singer George Michael wrote on Twitter.
In an echo of the aftermath of Michael Jackson's death two years ago, sales of her records have boomed.
Record industry body the Official Charts Company said on Tuesday that her music was expected to dominate the British charts by the end of the week.
She is on course to have seven singles in the Top 40 and 14 in the Top 200, with the biggest selling track currently Back To Black followed by "Rehab," "Tears Dry On Their Own," "You Know I'm No Good" and "Valerie."
In the year following his death, Jackson sold more records in Britain than any other artist.
The Daily Telegraph newspaper reported this week that material recorded before Winehouse's death could be released as a posthumous album.
They cited sources who said Winehouse had recorded "a lot of material" and that her parents would have the final say on whether a new album was to be released.
Winehouse's spokesman told Reuters there was no news about the release of a third album. "I know there's material about, but no one's talked about it," he said.
Yahoo News

 

[jasoncran]

why is it that the jews of which i am. go all out., either they are for god or against him..

sadly if those parents become christians the lord will have to heal them or remind them of his goodness when they read psalm 23. that is part of the mourner kaddish.


on this note. given my loss.

may my grandmother of 92 yrs rest in peace. i wence not if she was saved. so i hope that the Heshem has recieved her.

 

[Lewis]

Amy was cremated when did Jews start this, my mother is Hebrew and she is dead against it.

 

[jasoncran]

Amy was cremated when did Jews start this, my mother is Hebrew and she is dead against it.

its not uncommon. the idea of cremation was i think started by the jews, correct me if i am wrong. i was unaware that you are a hebrew. interesting.

i wonder, if you may indulge. when ever you read the promises to isreal stated in the nt does it make you exited that you get that? or that when you read about the faithful jews its more then just a faith thing but they are "family"

i ask as i have found many a fulfilled jews do this.

 

[Lewis]

Yeah my mothers mom, my brother, and and about 10 others in my family are Hebrews, and I have never known them to be any other way.

 

[jasoncran]

and they didnt raise you in the temple. that reminds me. i need to ask if my bro got the the tanakh from my grandmother estate.

my dad has the temple torah that was often read. he showed that sunday. he was suprised i know what it was. kinda obvious when its a scroll and has nothing but hebrew on it.

 

[Lewis]

Yup I had to go all the time.

 

[jasoncran]

interesting. perhaps when its time for the festival of lights you should walk us through that as its very messainic it its pointing to the redeemer that came.

ie the idea of lighting the menora and the center candle. and the giving of gifts.