Hmmm....I can see how those two would compliment one another.......good match! lolCareful....................................................................................................they're dating.............................
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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An interesting thought
- Thread starter Jethro Bodine
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
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Yes, and she's as lovely on the inside as she is on the outside!Careful....................................................................................................they're dating.............................
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Jethro Bodine
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Aw, go on.........you're making me blush.
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Gary
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JCitoL
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the fear that makes the human not love any other enough, and the lack of enough organization for perfecting the love to the neighbor(cohabitant), are the two main factors that impede the love to manifest in the relevant concerned
1 John 4:17-21 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."
Blessings
1 John 4:17-21 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."
Blessings
Jethro Bodine
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This is how I would answer:
Dear Mrs. Dumbfounded in Doubtfire,
What your Christian friends meant by 'you don't have to do anything to get saved' is you can't earn your salvation by doing righteous things, simply because you would have to be perfect in your righteous doings to earn that. And any sin, past or present would reveal you to be less than righteous. So God has presented us with the gospel--the good news--of being made righteous, and therefore eligible for salvation, through the wiping away of our unrighteousness through the forgiveness of sins, and having it replaced with Christ's righteousness. Placing your faith, your trust, in that forgiveness is how you receive that forgiveness and in turn receive God's official declaration of right standing with him. It's the difference between being saved by what you do, and being saved by what you believe apart from what you do. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And even after you get saved, your justification--your right standing with God--is still not earned and secured by us by doing righteous things. Again, that would require you and I to be perfect in our righteous doings. Not gonna happen. So in that sense we still don't have to do anything to maintain or earn the righteousness required to be saved after we get saved. We keep our sins, past and present, on the altar of God's forgiveness and God maintains our right standing with him through that forgiveness.
The problem comes in when a person erroneously thinks this all means it does not matter how they live after they get saved. For some reason many in the church can only hear 'works' in the same sentence with salvation as meaning 'you are saved by your works', not knowing that the faith that makes you righteous, all by itself apart from what you do, is that faith that can be seen in your love for others. Paul says it like this:
"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love. " (Galatians 5:6 NASB)
He says works of the law, epitomized in the lawful requirement for circumcision, can't justify a person (that is, earn them God's declaration of righteousness). Only faith can do that--faith in God's forgiveness to wipe away our unrighteousness and replace it with Christ's righteousness. But Paul tells us the faith that justifies is the faith that works love. IOW, the faith that saves is the faith that loves.
So it is in that sense that, 'yes', you are expected to 'do' something after you are saved. Not to earn right standing with God, but as the expected and obligatory characteristic of the faith that justifies, all by itself. The faith that saved you all by itself apart from any righteous work is the faith that then changes you into a person who loves through that faith. But so many in the church are certain that their faith that does not love is the faith that saves because salvation is so utterly not of works. This is the erroneous belief your friend was sharing with you.
Abraham was justified by his faith in the promise of a son God would provide that would inherit the blessing on his behalf. So we also are justified by our faith in the promise of a Son, Jesus Christ, God has provided that inherits the blessings on our behalf. And just as Abraham's faith in the promise was seen in what he did, thus validating the presence of that faith, so our faith is also seen in what we do, or else it isn't faith. We have to be aware that no doing may mean no faith. And no faith ultimately means no salvation (because faith is the condition for salvation, not works).
Peter says the person who has no doings of the Spirit is the person who has forgotten about the forgiveness he has received. IOW, his faith in God's forgiveness--the faith that saves--has failed:
"9 For he who lacks these qualities (of the Spirit--see context) is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins." (2 Peter 1:9 NASB)
Then he goes on to say that we are to be diligent (you know, 'do' something) to make our calling and election certain:
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (of the Spirit--see context), you will never stumble" (2 Peter 1:10 NASB)
So, Mrs. Dumbfounded, faith, by virtue of what it means to have faith in God's forgiveness, most certainly does require that you 'do' something after you are saved. To not 'do' something is to leave you open to the charge of having forgotten, possibly forsaken, the forgiveness of God you have received, having lost faith in that forgiveness. And that forgiveness is what saves. You can not be saved without it.
Dear Mrs. Dumbfounded in Doubtfire,
What your Christian friends meant by 'you don't have to do anything to get saved' is you can't earn your salvation by doing righteous things, simply because you would have to be perfect in your righteous doings to earn that. And any sin, past or present would reveal you to be less than righteous. So God has presented us with the gospel--the good news--of being made righteous, and therefore eligible for salvation, through the wiping away of our unrighteousness through the forgiveness of sins, and having it replaced with Christ's righteousness. Placing your faith, your trust, in that forgiveness is how you receive that forgiveness and in turn receive God's official declaration of right standing with him. It's the difference between being saved by what you do, and being saved by what you believe apart from what you do. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And even after you get saved, your justification--your right standing with God--is still not earned and secured by us by doing righteous things. Again, that would require you and I to be perfect in our righteous doings. Not gonna happen. So in that sense we still don't have to do anything to maintain or earn the righteousness required to be saved after we get saved. We keep our sins, past and present, on the altar of God's forgiveness and God maintains our right standing with him through that forgiveness.
The problem comes in when a person erroneously thinks this all means it does not matter how they live after they get saved. For some reason many in the church can only hear 'works' in the same sentence with salvation as meaning 'you are saved by your works', not knowing that the faith that makes you righteous, all by itself apart from what you do, is that faith that can be seen in your love for others. Paul says it like this:
"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love. " (Galatians 5:6 NASB)
He says works of the law, epitomized in the lawful requirement for circumcision, can't justify a person (that is, earn them God's declaration of righteousness). Only faith can do that--faith in God's forgiveness to wipe away our unrighteousness and replace it with Christ's righteousness. But Paul tells us the faith that justifies is the faith that works love. IOW, the faith that saves is the faith that loves.
So it is in that sense that, 'yes', you are expected to 'do' something after you are saved. Not to earn right standing with God, but as the expected and obligatory characteristic of the faith that justifies, all by itself. The faith that saved you all by itself apart from any righteous work is the faith that then changes you into a person who loves through that faith. But so many in the church are certain that their faith that does not love is the faith that saves because salvation is so utterly not of works. This is the erroneous belief your friend was sharing with you.
Abraham was justified by his faith in the promise of a son God would provide that would inherit the blessing on his behalf. So we also are justified by our faith in the promise of a Son, Jesus Christ, God has provided that inherits the blessings on our behalf. And just as Abraham's faith in the promise was seen in what he did, thus validating the presence of that faith, so our faith is also seen in what we do, or else it isn't faith. We have to be aware that no doing may mean no faith. And no faith ultimately means no salvation (because faith is the condition for salvation, not works).
Peter says the person who has no doings of the Spirit is the person who has forgotten about the forgiveness he has received. IOW, his faith in God's forgiveness--the faith that saves--has failed:
"9 For he who lacks these qualities (of the Spirit--see context) is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins." (2 Peter 1:9 NASB)
Then he goes on to say that we are to be diligent (you know, 'do' something) to make our calling and election certain:
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (of the Spirit--see context), you will never stumble" (2 Peter 1:10 NASB)
So, Mrs. Dumbfounded, faith, by virtue of what it means to have faith in God's forgiveness, most certainly does require that you 'do' something after you are saved. To not 'do' something is to leave you open to the charge of having forgotten, possibly forsaken, the forgiveness of God you have received, having lost faith in that forgiveness. And that forgiveness is what saves. You can not be saved without it.
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Excellent article, Jethro!
I'm going to print this out and save it if you don't mind. It's like James points out, there are true and false faiths and then he gives examples of what each looks like. The whole book of James discusses the differences.
Jethro Bodine
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Thank you kind sir.
Print out as many as you want.
Yes, James echos Paul's teaching that the faith that justifies is the faith that loves and gives examples of what that love looks like.
Who is me me?
As for the answer you could tell them they must keep all the law 100% of the time, and hold out faithful until the end, or they can sin on purpose and ask for unlimited forgiveness; I've think I've heard similar things on these forums and that should convince them.
As for the answer you could tell them they must keep all the law 100% of the time, and hold out faithful until the end, or they can sin on purpose and ask for unlimited forgiveness; I've think I've heard similar things on these forums and that should convince them.
The law was fulfilled in us so that we are able to love others and love God, it is the grace given to us that empowers us to walk as Christ walks. The love that we do, is the same love Christ will do, we are His arms and legs, and if we see a man who has no food and we have food and we do not give him food, then that is not the love of Christ, it is a fake love.
The Law of the Spirit is the law we follow, which is love, love in action, through faith, is our requirement as Christ said the 2 greatest commandments are to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as ourselves.
The action doesn't save us, our faith does, but if there is no evidence for that faith, then it's a fake faith. For me, this is what James is teaching us and about 2 years ago, I actually memorized that entire book so it would become ingrained in me to put my love into action (and hopefully I will keep growing in this area).
Peace!
The Law of the Spirit is the law we follow, which is love, love in action, through faith, is our requirement as Christ said the 2 greatest commandments are to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as ourselves.
The action doesn't save us, our faith does, but if there is no evidence for that faith, then it's a fake faith. For me, this is what James is teaching us and about 2 years ago, I actually memorized that entire book so it would become ingrained in me to put my love into action (and hopefully I will keep growing in this area).
Peace!
Jethro Bodine
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I don't know know.
I know, it's funny how the church seems to only be able to think in these ridiculous extremes. We need to be prepared to tell them the truth that sits somewhere in between.As for the answer you could tell them they must keep all the law 100% of the time, and hold out faithful until the end, or they can sin on purpose and ask for unlimited forgiveness; I've think I've heard similar things on these forums and that should convince them.
Jethro Bodine
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Wow! You mesmorized the whole book of James?The law was fulfilled in us so that we are able to love others and love God, it is the grace given to us that empowers us to walk as Christ walks. The love that we do, is the same love Christ will do, we are His arms and legs, and if we see a man who has no food and we have food and we do not give him food, then that is not the love of Christ, it is a fake love.
The Law of the Spirit is the law we follow, which is love, love in action, through faith, is our requirement as Christ said the 2 greatest commandments are to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as ourselves.
The action doesn't save us, our faith does, but if there is no evidence for that faith, then it's a fake faith. For me, this is what James is teaching us and about 2 years ago, I actually memorized that entire book so it would become ingrained in me to put my love into action (and hopefully I will keep growing in this area).
Peace!
I can't even remember 'for God so....for God so loved the earth....no, the world, that......that he....'
It's the easiest book to memorize. lol It flows very nicely.
There is a private Christian school here that as young as Kindergarten memorizes entire chapters, and then it goes up to books. I'm sure they all do that, but I've been to that church and have listened to those little kids recite them.
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Here is some truth.
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18
The Spirit does not lead people to keep the law of Moses, but to spread the Gospel.
Knowing this truth will set you free from trying to keep the law of Moses.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
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It is amazing how much he is doing that. It's like he's teaching the church right out of a Torah scroll.
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Jethro Bodine
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he should be , he is addressing the Hebrews who only had the tanach when he wrote that epistle, and the copies of whatever gospel testament that was recorded and other letters.
Jethro Bodine
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Obedience is better than sacrifice.
Look at all these people at the Judgment who took false comfort in their service instead of the obedience of faith God requires:
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord,Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:22-23 NASB capitals in original)
This is an especially 'evangelical' problem. We often see lot's of commitment to ministry service, but little to none to the obedience of faith (the fruit of the Spirit).