AndThen???

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem


what is left for the physical nation ?

Once and Future Israel R B Yerby p 47

Hitch, have you ever considered the possibility that the saints as opposed to the church are the ones to whom the above scriptures reference? I know today we have been conditioned by tradition and translation to believe that the church is virtually equal to and made up of the saints, but udner scrutiny, that line of thinking leaves a lot to be desired. I am currently under the belief that the scriptural narrative tell the reader that the sanctified ones or saints were the individuals who were sealed by God's Holy Spirit starting with Jesus' envos (apostles) and then eventually to the believers that were baptised and had hands layed on them by the envoys. I do not know if we can make a sound biblical case that those things said of the saints could be applied to anyone beyond the time of the outpouring of God's Holy Spirit in the "last days" of the covenant with Israel that occurred some 2000 years ago.

 

[Hitch]

Hitch, have you ever considered the possibility that the saints as opposed to the church are the ones to whom the above scriptures reference?

Well God has always known who is who, we dont, one could just as easily say 'I am a saint' as ' I am a believer' or 'I am a church member' , a distinction without a difference

I know today we have been conditioned by tradition and translation to believe that the church is virtually equal to and made up of the saints, but udner scrutiny, that line of thinking leaves a lot to be desired. I am currently under the belief that the scriptural narrative tell the reader that the sanctified ones or saints were the individuals who were sealed by God's Holy Spirit starting with Jesus' envos (apostles) and then eventually to the believers that were baptised and had hands layed on them by the envoys. I do not know if we can make a sound biblical case that those things said of the saints could be applied to anyone beyond the time of the outpouring of God's Holy Spirit in the "last days" of the covenant with Israel that occurred some 2000 years ago.

Sounds as though you want to place an extremely narrow application of the NT against the template of the modern church. Correct?

Might make for an interesting thread but for the purposes here the scriptures ,especially the whole of the NT a held dear and primarily for the majority of believers. By definition, people who did not live in the first century.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Sounds as though you want to place an extremely narrow application of the NT against the template of the modern church. Correct?

Might make for an interesting thread but for the purposes here the scriptures ,especially the whole of the NT a held dear and primarily for the majority of believers. By definition, people who did not live in the first century.

All I'm saying is that we must as students be mindfull of the fact that the scriptures were written over a period of what, 1500 years and are made up of separate writings that often had a specified target audience. Many of us today made the mistake of making our generation and our situation the focal point rather than letting scripture tell us to whom it is being directed and how what is up for discussion within a text applies or would have been applicable to the author's contempory readers.

 

[warhorse]

Isaiah 49 deals with Israel, namely those in the lost tribes state, which BTW have not historically gotten back together with Judah. Plain historical fact. But the bible predicts they one day will get back together again so obviously there is more to come. Paul is the first to use that passage of himself and by extension his ministry. And these lost tribes would become the purveyors of the gospel message, i.e. the house of Israel.



Once a COP stopped a drunk going the wrong way and asked the drunk, "Do you know this is a one-way street?" The drunk argued that he was only going one way! Just as you are dutifully doing, I'm sure.

Like it or lump it, the purpose for the church is to rule and reign with Christ as Christ over the rest of the world. That's stated plainly in Revelation 1:6.

I won't argue regarding the spiritual, I'm not denying that. I'm saying that there's another side of the coin in effect yet as evidenced that the Kingdom on earth did not come yet.

There is nothing in the bible that says the throne of King David was moved to heaven. The bible is full of genealogies regarding that as well as other promises called "birthright" which is what one has by rights of birth (and such a chosen person is not necessarily a saved person---- these are earthly promises I'm talking about promised to specific genealogical lineages). The throne is one of them, and must be claimed by one of righteousness, not the way it is now. This throne was promised to go thru all generations, even until now until Christ takes it.

Just look at what's going on over in Israel right now. If that's all insignificant, than why is it happening according to some people who predicted that and claimed the bible was their source of information and prophecy?

NO SIR the purpose of the church is to show Gods grace and love to the world. Ruling and reigning with him is in the literal advent of the second coming.

 

[warhorse]

Well we know the Lord walked on Olivet and we know he personally opened the well of living water;

John 4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Yes but he did not go forth and fight as in the (day of battle), a referance to events in joshua, nor did his kingdom on earth start as referanced in Rev 11. What you see is that many prophetic events have a spiritual fulfilment before it is followed by a literal one. To disregard a literal kingdom is foolish as its prophacy starts at Genesis all the way through to revelation. if it was to only be spiritually fullfilled there would be no use for about 30 % of scripture.

 

[Hitch]

All I'm saying is that we must as students be mindfull of the fact that the scriptures were written over a period of what, 1500 years and are made up of separate writings that often had a specified target audience. Many of us today made the mistake of making our generation and our situation the focal point rather than letting scripture tell us to whom it is being directed and how what is up for discussion within a text applies or would have been applicable to the author's contempory readers.

Please keep to topic.

 

[Hitch]

Yes but he did not go forth and fight as in the (day of battle), a referance to events in joshua,

Who sent the armies to burn the city??

nor did his kingdom on earth start as referanced in Rev 11. What you see is that many prophetic events have a spiritual fulfilment before it is followed by a literal one. To disregard a literal kingdom is foolish as its prophacy starts at Genesis all the way through to revelation. if it was to only be spiritually fullfilled there would be no use for about 30 % of scripture.

There was a 'literal kingdom' we called it Israel.

Today the church is the sole heir to kingdom*. It is entirely spiritual, defined as Joy Peace and Righteousness in the Holy Spirit and transcends all geographical and racial boundries.

*
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16

 

[tim-from-pa]

NO SIR the purpose of the church is to show Gods grace and love to the world. Ruling and reigning with him is in the literal advent of the second coming.

I won't argue that---- that is true as well. I had the future in mind--- the ultimate. In the meantime, God is calling many now by His grace to prepare the world for the Coming Kingdom, so I don't want to downplay the present role of the church in that. I apologize if I came across that way. You are correct.

 

[warhorse]

Who sent the armies to burn the city?? There was a 'literal kingdom' we called it Israel.

Today the church is the sole heir to kingdom*. It is entirely spiritual, defined as Joy Peace and Righteousness in the Holy Spirit and transcends all geographical and racial boundries.

*
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16

First off the promise was always by faith, before and after the cross. Israel was not the kingdom of Gods promise, if so God would not have destroyed it so many times as he destroyed the wicked and preserved the faithful few for 1500 years
The day of battle refers to a specific event that is unlike any other but greatly resembles prophacy of the Day of the lord.
Joshua 10v8 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.
9 Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.
10 And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Nahum 1v1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the ROCKS are thrown down by him.
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.

There is an emense amount of scripure on the DOTL all depecting Gods litteral return and wrath on the world.

ISAIAH 2
12 For the DAY OF THE LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
ISAIAH 13
6 Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
9 Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
ISAIAH 34
8 For it is the DAY OF THE LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
JEREMIAH 46
10 For this is the DAY OF THE LORD GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
LAMENTATIONS 2
22 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the DAY OF THE LORD's anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
EZEKIEL 13
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the DAY OF THE LORD.
EZEKIEL 30
3 For the day is near, even the DAY OF THE LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
JOEL 1
15 Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
JOEL 2
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD come.
JOEL 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision.
AMOS 5
18 Woe unto you that desire the DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? the DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.
20 Shall not the DAY OF THE LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
OBADIAH 1
15 For the DAY OF THE LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
ZEPHANIAH 1
7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
8 And it shall come to pass in the DAY OF THE LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
14 The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the DAY OF THE LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the DAY OF THE LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
ZEPHANIAH 2
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the DAY OF THE LORD's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the DAY OF THE LORD's anger.
ZECHARIAH 14
1 Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
MALACHI 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD:
ACTS 2
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come:
1 CORINTHIANS 5
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the DAY OF THE LORD Jesus.
2 CORINTHIANS 1
14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the DAY OF THE LORD Jesus.
1 THESSALONIANS 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 PETER 3
10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[warhorse]

I won't argue that---- that is true as well. I had the future in mind--- the ultimate. In the meantime, God is calling many now by His grace to prepare the world for the Coming Kingdom, so I don't want to downplay the present role of the church in that. I apologize if I came across that way. You are correct.

I understand, no problem.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Putting aside Hitch's contrary tirade against every poster here, I just wanted all to understand the book where he's coming from.

The book is by Frank Yerby "The Once and Future Israel" (Link).

If I had to summarize the position of this book in 25 words or less, it is: Preterist. Natural types being fulfilled (and replaced) by spiritual. In short, replacement theology--- church in place of Israel.

The OP is a verbim list of page 66 of the above link. The writer openly admits Time and time again he does not believe in a literal Kingdom but spiritual (the church).

Going back to the OP, the list deals with the priesthood, righteousness, and salvation in which the Mosaic Law was a type, but provided no salvation. It took the New Covenant to do that. However, the writer considers the other covenants, such as Abrahamic, Davidic etc as "All of the other so-called
covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, etc.) were nothing more than stages in the progressive revelation of God’s eternal plan." However, this list has nothing to do directly with the earthly promises to Israel.

The fact is, the Abrahamic Covenant is neither old nor new, but in effect today otherwise if it is now annulled, the "seed" would not be allowed to reign. And that, BTW is how he opens his book listing four things promised to Abraham. That in itself showed to me his lack of understanding as I can state about 10 things off the top of my head that was promised to Abraham. In other words, these promises did not focus on that list in the OP, but works in conjunction.

You see, Israel was never offered salvation as we know it until the death of Christ. Therefore, since the promises in this list were not offered yet, then just what is left for Israel? She has all promised to Abraham. Here's my list of the things promised to Abraham supported by infallible Scripture:

*Becoming a great nation
* Become blessed (the details of the nature of the blessings are found later in Genesis 49:22-26)
* Have a great name
* Become a blessing to others
* Obtain a specific LAND forever
* Have many, many descendents (the 'dust' foreshadowed physical descendents while the 'stars' foreshadowed spiritual descendents)
*An heir of promise thru which this was to be accomplished (Isaac)
*Become MANY nations!
* MANY KINGS
* His seed would posses the gates of his enemies (very powerful people)
* This was understood to be an everlasting covenant to him and his seed.

Now compare this list to the OP list which, like I said, is more related to priesthood, righteousness and personal relationship with God. you see? They are different because my list are earthly promises to a specific genealogy of people. The purpose? They work in conjunction with each other (e.g. spiritual seed) for the purpose of God. But it is possible to be chosen or race, inherit all these promises and yet be lost.

Yes, the Kingdom is coming. Yes, it is a spiritual Kingdom, but it plays out physically for all this world to see and experience. It's not an ethereal Kingdom "out there" or "in men's hearts" or some other weakly, whimpy way.

 

[Hitch]

First off the promise was always by faith, before and after the cross. Israel was not the kingdom of Gods promise, if so God would not have destroyed it so many times as he destroyed the wicked and preserved the faithful few for 1500 years
The day of battle refers to a specific event that is unlike any other but greatly resembles prophacy of the Day of the lord.
Joshua 10v8 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.
9 Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.
10 And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Nahum 1v1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the ROCKS are thrown down by him.
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.

There is an emense amount of scripure on the DOTL all depecting Gods litteral return and wrath on the world.

ISAIAH 2
12 For the DAY OF THE LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
ISAIAH 13
6 Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
9 Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
ISAIAH 34
8 For it is the DAY OF THE LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
JEREMIAH 46
10 For this is the DAY OF THE LORD GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
LAMENTATIONS 2
22 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the DAY OF THE LORD's anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
EZEKIEL 13
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the DAY OF THE LORD.
EZEKIEL 30
3 For the day is near, even the DAY OF THE LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
JOEL 1
15 Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
JOEL 2
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD come.
JOEL 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision.
AMOS 5
18 Woe unto you that desire the DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? the DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light.
20 Shall not the DAY OF THE LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
OBADIAH 1
15 For the DAY OF THE LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
ZEPHANIAH 1
7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
8 And it shall come to pass in the DAY OF THE LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
14 The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the DAY OF THE LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the DAY OF THE LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
ZEPHANIAH 2
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the DAY OF THE LORD's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the DAY OF THE LORD's anger.
ZECHARIAH 14
1 Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
MALACHI 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD:
ACTS 2
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come:
1 CORINTHIANS 5
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the DAY OF THE LORD Jesus.
2 CORINTHIANS 1
14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the DAY OF THE LORD Jesus.
1 THESSALONIANS 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 PETER 3
10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Did you have point ?

 

[Hitch]

Putting aside Hitch's contrary tirade against every poster here, I just wanted all to understand the book where he's coming from.

The book is by Frank Yerby "The Once and Future Israel" (Link).

WOW. Im using my old split in several parts soft bound. I had no idea it was available this way . Thanx.

If I had to summarize the position of this book in 25 words or less, it is: Preterist. Natural types being fulfilled (and replaced) by spiritual. In short, replacement theology--- church in place of Israel.

The OP is a verbim list of page 66 of the above link. The writer openly admits Time and time again he does not believe in a literal Kingdom but spiritual (the church).

Interesting choice of words, Yerby actually proclaims this NT truth

Going back to the OP, the list deals with the priesthood, righteousness, and salvation in which the Mosaic Law was a type, but provided no salvation. It took the New Covenant to do that. However, the writer considers the other covenants, such as Abrahamic, Davidic etc as "All of the other so-called
covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, etc.) were nothing more than stages in the progressive revelation of God’s eternal plan." However, this list has nothing to do directly with the earthly promises to Israel.

The fact is, the Abrahamic Covenant is neither old nor new, but in effect today otherwise if it is now annulled, the "seed" would not be allowed to reign. And that, BTW is how he opens his book listing four things promised to Abraham. That in itself showed to me his lack of understanding as I can state about 10 things off the top of my head that was promised to Abraham. In other words, these promises did not focus on that list in the OP, but works in conjunction.

You see, Israel was never offered salvation as we know it until the death of Christ. Therefore, since the promises in this list were not offered yet, then just what is left for Israel? She has all promised to Abraham. Here's my list of the things promised to Abraham supported by infallible Scripture:

*Becoming a great nation
* Become blessed (the details of the nature of the blessings are found later in Genesis 49:22-26)
* Have a great name
* Become a blessing to others
* Obtain a specific LAND forever
* Have many, many descendents (the 'dust' foreshadowed physical descendents while the 'stars' foreshadowed spiritual descendents)
*An heir of promise thru which this was to be accomplished (Isaac)
*Become MANY nations!
* MANY KINGS
* His seed would posses the gates of his enemies (very powerful people)
* This was understood to be an everlasting covenant to him and his seed.

Its time for you to review the OP. Who is the seed of Abe is clearly laid out.

Now compare this list to the OP list which, like I said, is more related to priesthood, righteousness and personal relationship with God. you see? They are different because my list are earthly promises to a specific genealogy of people. The purpose? They work in conjunction with each other (e.g. spiritual seed) for the purpose of God. But it is possible to be chosen or race, inherit all these promises and yet be lost.

This is utter claptrap. Jesus said , The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Jesus lacked your bent for realestate.

Yes, the Kingdom is coming. Yes, it is a spiritual Kingdom,

Defined for us by the that pathetic whimp Paul

;Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

but it plays out physically for all this world to see and experience. It's not an ethereal Kingdom "out there" or "in men's hearts" or some other weakly, whimpy way.

see above.


And thanx again for the link

 

[Hitch]

NO SIR the purpose of the church is to show Gods grace and love to the world. Ruling and reigning with him is in the literal advent of the second coming.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Paul has a different timing.

 

[warhorse]

Putting aside Hitch's contrary tirade against every poster here, I just wanted all to understand the book where he's coming from.

The book is by Frank Yerby "The Once and Future Israel" (Link).

If I had to summarize the position of this book in 25 words or less, it is: Preterist. Natural types being fulfilled (and replaced) by spiritual. In short, replacement theology--- church in place of Israel.

The OP is a verbim list of page 66 of the above link. The writer openly admits Time and time again he does not believe in a literal Kingdom but spiritual (the church).

Going back to the OP, the list deals with the priesthood, righteousness, and salvation in which the Mosaic Law was a type, but provided no salvation. It took the New Covenant to do that. However, the writer considers the other covenants, such as Abrahamic, Davidic etc as "All of the other so-called
covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, etc.) were nothing more than stages in the progressive revelation of God’s eternal plan." However, this list has nothing to do directly with the earthly promises to Israel.

The fact is, the Abrahamic Covenant is neither old nor new, but in effect today otherwise if it is now annulled, the "seed" would not be allowed to reign. And that, BTW is how he opens his book listing four things promised to Abraham. That in itself showed to me his lack of understanding as I can state about 10 things off the top of my head that was promised to Abraham. In other words, these promises did not focus on that list in the OP, but works in conjunction.

You see, Israel was never offered salvation as we know it until the death of Christ. Therefore, since the promises in this list were not offered yet, then just what is left for Israel? She has all promised to Abraham. Here's my list of the things promised to Abraham supported by infallible Scripture:

*Becoming a great nation
* Become blessed (the details of the nature of the blessings are found later in Genesis 49:22-26)
* Have a great name
* Become a blessing to others
* Obtain a specific LAND forever
* Have many, many descendents (the 'dust' foreshadowed physical descendents while the 'stars' foreshadowed spiritual descendents)
*An heir of promise thru which this was to be accomplished (Isaac)
*Become MANY nations!
* MANY KINGS
* His seed would posses the gates of his enemies (very powerful people)
* This was understood to be an everlasting covenant to him and his seed.

Now compare this list to the OP list which, like I said, is more related to priesthood, righteousness and personal relationship with God. you see? They are different because my list are earthly promises to a specific genealogy of people. The purpose? They work in conjunction with each other (e.g. spiritual seed) for the purpose of God. But it is possible to be chosen or race, inherit all these promises and yet be lost.

Yes, the Kingdom is coming. Yes, it is a spiritual Kingdom, but it plays out physically for all this world to see and experience. It's not an ethereal Kingdom "out there" or "in men's hearts" or some other weakly, whimpy way.

HHHHHUUUUURRRRRAAAAAYYYYY. Well said and i agree completly.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Well then, I guess all of Hitch's coins in his house have only heads! Or at least that's what he sees so that's all there are, and we all better believe that or else. Meanwhile, as scoffers say, everything in this world remains unchanged, and evil continues because of this ethereal Kingdom that nobody can see, nor is there this returning King. Feast up atheists, you may have a point if that were the case. You have just been fed all that you want to support your case. :biglol

 

[tim-from-pa]

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

 

[Hitch]

Well then, I guess all of Hitch's coins in his house have only heads! Or at least that's what he sees so that's all there are, and we all better believe that or else. Meanwhile, as scoffers say, everything in this world remains unchanged, and evil continues because of this ethereal Kingdom that nobody can see, nor is there this returning King. Feast up atheists, you may have a point if that were the case. You have just been fed all that you want to support your case. :biglol

Lots of folks hate Paul's defintion of the kingdom, not my problem.

 

[Hitch]

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Yawn. Still afraid to address the OP .

 

[Hitch]

Did you have point ?

Apparently not.

I never guessed a few lines from the New Testament, posted with out comment , could cause such terror.:D

If your position is so easily confirmed and well supported you shouldnt have any trouble doing so using the very sources I quoted. You should have no trouble confirming your position quoting Paul , John and Pete. Why have you failed ?

The same goes for you tim.