AndThen???

[Hitch]

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem


what is left for the physical nation ?

Once and Future Israel R B Yerby p 47

heh heh

 

[tim-from-pa]

Please reread what I stated earlier Hitch. I did answer it. To requote:

then just what is left for Israel? She has all promised to Abraham. Here's my list of the things promised to Abraham supported by infallible Scripture:

*Becoming a great nation
* Become blessed (the details of the nature of the blessings are found later in Genesis 49:22-26)
* Have a great name
* Become a blessing to others
* Obtain a specific LAND forever
* Have many, many descendents (the 'dust' foreshadowed physical descendents while the 'stars' foreshadowed spiritual descendents)
*An heir of promise thru which this was to be accomplished (Isaac)
*Become MANY nations!
* MANY KINGS
* His seed would posses the gates of his enemies (very powerful people)
* This was understood to be an everlasting covenant to him and his seed.

On your list, the church are children of Abraham. By which genealogical lineage in the natural realm is that allowing to take place? In other words, what is the bridge that allows a non-Israelite gentile to become heirs and children of Abraham?

 

[Hitch]

Please reread what I stated earlier Hitch. I did answer it. To requote:



On your list, the church are children of Abraham. By which genealogical lineage in the natural realm is that allowing to take place? In other words, what is the bridge that allows a non-Israelite gentile to become heirs and children of Abraham?

Christ.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Christ.

And what tribe is Christ from?

 

[Hitch]

And what tribe is Christ from?

Who cares?

What effect does that have on? ;

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem

 

[tim-from-pa]

Ok. Then if you don't know which tribe he's from, or just don't care, then you have just admitted to everyone here that the prophecy regarding Christ's origin is unimportant. That's one of the critical proofs that show who Jesus really is, otherwise any huckster could try to sell himself as the Christ.

Like it or lump it. All the nations will one day go to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Tabernacles. Try as one might, you cannot spiritualize that. There is no historical record of that ever happening so unless God's word is a lie, this is yet future in a literal Kingdom here on Earth. Prophecy is in the feasts. The earlier ones Passover, Unleavened Bread, etc have been fulfilled in Christ's first coming. Then there is a long break and the autumn ones were not fulfilled yet. What's the point in the break except by showing two comings? I get the feeling I'll have more luck teaching my cats calculus than getting this concept across.

As for Paul, I agree very much with him and if he were alive today would agree with what I say about Israel being very much in the picture yet. He knew and trusted that God would one day give them a new heart and apply that covenant to them as well. However, by the context, Paul was stating it did not happen yet. But Paul's words are hard to understand, and many twist them to their own destruction especially by those who are inept enough to understand deeper spiritual things.

The truth is, you don't know what you are talking about and come in challenging anybody and anyone. It would be best to drop the know-it-all attitude if you want to learn anything.

One other thing. I'd put the attitude aside regarding the Jews and learn from them the foundation where Christianity came from instead of some Gentile's contrived Jesus of another's imagination.

 

[reba]

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


We are no more strangers in the land.

This may sound a bit dumb Tim but i will ask any way...

In the literal sense how will the nations go to the land of Israel find enough space and trees to build huts all with in a week? The question is the simple idea of space and the number of people in the nations?


What is the math of the numbers of people? Israel is 8367 square miles. Each family must build a hut. how much square ground will that take A grown man could not lay down in comfortably in a 6 by 6 space. What about sanitation? move ability? Your the math guy how can it happen. Please don't just cop out and say God can do anything etc. Thanks

 

[Hitch]

Ok. Then if you don't know which tribe he's from, or just don't care, then you have just admitted to everyone here that the prophecy regarding Christ's origin is unimportant. That's one of the critical proofs that show who Jesus really is, otherwise any huckster could try to sell himself as the Christ.

Like it or lump it. All the nations will one day go to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Tabernacles. Try as one might, you cannot spiritualize that. There is no historical record of that ever happening so unless God's word is a lie, this is yet future in a literal Kingdom here on Earth. Prophecy is in the feasts. The earlier ones Passover, Unleavened Bread, etc have been fulfilled in Christ's first coming. Then there is a long break and the autumn ones were not fulfilled yet. What's the point in the break except by showing two comings? I get the feeling I'll have more luck teaching my cats calculus than getting this concept across.

As for Paul, I agree very much with him and if he were alive today would agree with what I say about Israel being very much in the picture yet. He knew and trusted that God would one day give them a new heart and apply that covenant to them as well. However, by the context, Paul was stating it did not happen yet. But Paul's words are hard to understand, and many twist them to their own destruction especially by those who are inept enough to understand deeper spiritual things.

The truth is, you don't know what you are talking about and come in challenging anybody and anyone. It would be best to drop the know-it-all attitude if you want to learn anything.

One other thing. I'd put the attitude aside regarding the Jews and learn from them the foundation where Christianity came from instead of some Gentile's contrived Jesus of another's imagination.

Since you have a proven lack of interest in the topic be good enough to continue your soap-boxing elsewhere.

 

[Hitch]

Perhaps the greatest promise of the OT was that God would dwell with His people. The great rift that had grown since the Garden was closed could be covered and fellowship restored. This required redemption, of course, from our time we can see how this was accomplished through the cross and the resulting resurrection and exaltation of Christ. By which we are made alive and so adopted into the household of God. Not only then are we redeemed from death but granted royal status as co-heirs in Christ. Pete confirms this taking from the prophet this idea of a royal priesthood, and a holy nation.
It was all necessary because God would have his dwelling place with us,his own people.

13For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. 14This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
15I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread.
16I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.
17There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed.
18His enemies will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish.

Dave's line was unable to keep the covenant, and lost all claim to the throne. Still God's plan is unaffected, and He sent Christ to establish everlasting righteousness. To satisfy His honor and glory and restore fellowship. Making us His sons, fulfilling the promise and settling us with Him in the beautiful city.

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

This why the kingdom is defined in spiritual terms. God 's dwelling with his chosen is unaffected by geography , there are no boundries , and men from every nation come to worship. The need for types and shadows passed on the third day, and we slowly forget 'the former things' . All that was temporal and weak.

 

[warhorse]

Did you have point ?

Yes, that there is an enormous amount of unfulfilled prophacy in relation to Israel and The lords return, despite what these preterists would have the world believe. Jesus was the cornerstone of the church fitly framed and built on him but not the fullfillment of all the kingdoms prophacy.

 

[Lehigh3]

Yes, the "new Jerusalem" has come.

I'm so glad that some see the spiritual kingdom- the church universal that John the apostle wrote was to come "soon!"

The tree of life is back. What was lost in Adam is gained in Christ.(Rev.21)

Nothing impure enters the gates of the city(Rev.21&22) - Just like in Zech.14:10, when Jerusalem is "raised up" & became the spiritual city.
View attachment 1816 Oh yes, the 12 tribes of Israel were raised at the resurrection of the dead. The patriarchs are represented in the 12 gates.

And the Spirit and the bride say "Come." (Rev.22)

 

[Hitch]

Yes, that there is an enormous amount of unfulfilled prophacy in relation to Israel and The lords return, despite what these preterists would have the world believe. Jesus was the cornerstone of the church fitly framed and built on him but not the fullfillment of all the kingdoms prophacy.

Perhaps you would care to quote Jesus and Paul in support of,,, what ever it is you're saying, bearing in mind the status of the church according to the passages quoted in the OP.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


We are no more strangers in the land.

This may sound a bit dumb Tim but i will ask any way...

In the literal sense how will the nations go to the land of Israel find enough space and trees to build huts all with in a week? The question is the simple idea of space and the number of people in the nations?


What is the math of the numbers of people? Israel is 8367 square miles. Each family must build a hut. how much square ground will that take A grown man could not lay down in comfortably in a 6 by 6 space. What about sanitation? move ability? Your the math guy how can it happen. Please don't just cop out and say God can do anything etc. Thanks

Ah, you are so right to ask that, but I have two solutions. First of all, I posted this picture before, but here'e the real border of the land of Israel (see link):

http://www.britam.org/picturesYair/Israelmap2.jpg

As for overcrowding, you are correct. Here's a prophecy in Isaiah 49 which I believe has multiple fulfillments, and ultimately in the land of Israel:

The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.

Overcrowded? Yes, definitely. Can we fit everyone in? Yes. God will find a way for everyone to visit Jerusalem just as surely as Noah managed to get all the animals in that ark. Thank goodness that the feast only comes once a year. :biglol I trust what Zechariah says.

 

[reba]

What is the math of the numbers of people? Israel is 8367 square miles. Each family must build a hut. how much square ground will that take A grown man could not lay down in comfortably in a 6 by 6 space. What about sanitation? move ability? Your the math guy how can it happen. Please don't just cop out and say God can do anything etc. Thanks

Overcrowded? Yes, definitely. Can we fit everyone in? Yes. God will find a way for everyone to visit Jerusalem just as surely as Noah managed to get all the animals in that ark. Thank goodness that the feast only comes once a year. :biglol I trust what Zechariah says.


I am sorry you took the easy way out Tim i was so hoping for more.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Overcrowded? Yes, definitely. Can we fit everyone in? Yes. God will find a way for everyone to visit Jerusalem just as surely as Noah managed to get all the animals in that ark. Thank goodness that the feast only comes once a year. :biglol I trust what Zechariah says.


I am sorry you took the easy way out Tim i was so hoping for more.

No, it's not the easy way out. I'm dead serious. You know how much land that is that I showed you? That can easily fit everyone on earth--- although I'm not saying it's not crowded..

You believe that Noah had room for all the animals, don't you? How's this any different? Why do you doubt God's word when He said so?

This is not like my evangelical days. I don't understand what "Christians" are thinking today. They don't really believe Christ is coming back, they say they believe in miracles and then when it gets down to an issue like this, they don't believe God can fit them all in (which is easier for God to do). I don't understand. What gives?

 

[warhorse]

Apparently not.

I never guessed a few lines from the New Testament, posted with out comment , could cause such terror.:D

If your position is so easily confirmed and well supported you shouldnt have any trouble doing so using the very sources I quoted. You should have no trouble confirming your position quoting Paul , John and Pete. Why have you failed ?

The same goes for you tim.

Answering your own posts now, sure makes it easy to control the discussion when you control both sides of the argument huh. My position is easy to support, you simply chose to limet the discussion. OT support you knock off as israel focused, and NT support you spiritualize. Controlling the discussion But not following it to the truth. Of coarse the kingdom of God began with Jesus at the Cross, But that does not mean there is no literal kingdom to follow.

The prophacies of isaiah 26 17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Romans 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Hitch]

Answering your own posts now, sure makes it easy to control the discussion when you control both sides of the argument huh. My position is easy to support, you simply chose to limet the discussion. OT support you knock off as israel focused, and NT support you spiritualize. Controlling the discussion But not following it to the truth. Of coarse the kingdom of God began with Jesus at the Cross, But that does not mean there is no literal kingdom to follow.

Cry me a river. If you cant find any support from Jesus or the entire NT its your own fault for getting caught up in nonsense. AND STOP YOUR WHINING AND MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD if you dont care for mine. You have no complaint.

The prophacies of isaiah 26 17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Point?

Romans 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Duh. And this supports your silliness wrt the return to jewish feasts how?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Duh. So this is your chosen passage to say god wants to return to the Feasts huh?

Hey Hitch. I'm the one that mentioned the feasts. But you are quoting Warhorse and railing on him about something I said. Now we all know you don't know what you are talking about if you can't get your facts straight. But I'm not going to answer anymore a pompous planetoid like you. (Sorry, they call them asteroids these days. LOL)

I think this thread ought to be closed, moderators, because clearly this is just to pick on everybody and everything because someone has this High Falluton opinion of themselves. (Let me predict--- they'll say the same about me, but I beat them to it). But seriously, this is not going anywheres.

 

[Hitch]

Hey Hitch. I'm the one that mentioned the feasts. But you are quoting Warhorse and railing on him about something I said. Now we all know you don't know what you are talking about if you can't get your facts straight.

HHHHHUUUUURRRRRAAAAAYYYYY. Well said and i agree completly. posted by warhorse

But I'm not going to answer anymore a pompous planetoid like you. (Sorry, they call them asteroids these days. LOL)

LOL

I think this thread ought to be closed, moderators, because clearly this is just to pick on everybody and everything because someone has this High Falluton opinion of themselves. (Let me predict--- they'll say the same about me, but I beat them to it). But seriously, this is not going anywheres.

Yawn If you have an answer to the OP you would have posted it, rather than soap-boxing for your idiotic return to judaism.

Considering your great knowledge your responses are patheticly thin , you have though clearly demonstrated the poverty of your position.

 

[Hitch]

Overcrowded? Yes, definitely. Can we fit everyone in? Yes. God will find a way for everyone to visit Jerusalem just as surely as Noah managed to get all the animals in that ark. Thank goodness that the feast only comes once a year. :biglol I trust what Zechariah says.


I am sorry you took the easy way out Tim i was so hoping for more.

Dont forget, the means of transportion are included, its going to be a long donkey ride for the Patagonian farmer .

Dont you think at least one apostle would have made some mention of this great truth ?