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Angels Do Not Have Sex

I don't have any opinion and I'm not into "exegesis." What's your question?

It was the question I posted to you twice about what you said concerning the Scripture in Gen 6.

But never mind. I didn't realize you don't have any opinion or are not into exegesis of Scripture.

I assumed you posted your opinion based on what you thought the text was saying.
 
The Genesis 6 passage plainly indicates to me that angels mated with earthly women and produced unusually large offspring who became "famous." Evidently, this view contrasts with the majority view, due in part to the fact that we have all things "angel" today in the world's media (TV, books, movies, idols, etc.).

.
 
The term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim, "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels, and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament. It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources and by the early church fathers. Attempts to apply this term to "godly leadership" etc. is without Scriptural foundation
 
The term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim, "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels, and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament. It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources and by the early church fathers. Attempts to apply this term to "godly leadership" etc. is without Scriptural foundation
S4C,
Okay but your contesting a single point falls so short of the full revelation of god, the angles and god and evil. Without the whoe package in consideration, you're beating a dead horse.
 
Perhaps...but it is a pretty big point! :wink

(and he IS right about the definition)
Edward,
I have, in the past 69 years been wrong about points but the end result has never changed. If a person seeks to become or to be petty, Satan will enable us... just as long as we refuse to deal with the truth that we battle a spiritual War we are not able to win by ourselves. He has gone to the rabbinical sources and my findings, the one he is singling out to nit pick at, came from studies of the antiquities, pre-rabbinical, and more, as I recall now was supported by archaeological digs. This chapter of Genesis was recorded centuries later and to be perfectly honest about the matter, my opinion, your opinion and this opinion expressed now, some 33 pages late are not worth the time nor the effort expended to type them. What matters is what is recorded for our edification by our God about Him and His servants and Angels do not have sex!
 
Do not and cannot however are two different matters...but I agree, this is one of those questions (already heavily discussed) that few will ever agree on let alone KNOW for sure...but it was interesting to explore the three views...having nothing/little (praise be to His Holy name) to do with our salvation in Messiah Jesus. We therefore agreeing to disagree can have peace and unity in the Holy Spirit.
 
Do not and cannot however are two different matters...but I agree, this is one of those questions (already heavily discussed) that few will ever agree on let alone KNOW for sure...but it was interesting to explore the three views...having nothing/little (praise be to His Holy name) to do with our salvation in Messiah Jesus. We therefore agreeing to disagree can have peace and unity in the Holy Spirit.
Amen, and I regret that this well hashed subject has been dragged up without prayer and subjection to the leading of God. there was and there will be no good come of it.
 
That's right, we shouldn't argue about it or become emotionally frustrated or anything for that does not lead to unification or brotherly love in the least.

But the thread does continue, brother sourjourner4Christ did make a valid point to which brother taylor responded to with a reasonably good point of his own which is to take the entire context of the bible into consideration when we discuss this (or any) issue). it is interesting, so in the consideration of brother Taylors point of context, I would say that we can't discount the fact that Adam was produced directly by God Himself and because he was, he is a "sons of God", whereas the rest of mankind were called "sons of men", and this dear brothers and sisters is entirely scriptural.

Brother sorjourner4Christ, the term "B'nai HaElohim" is not a term reserved only for Angels, but for beings which are directly begotten (produced) by God Himself. This includes Adam & Eve, but no other men since, since they began having offspring which are not directly begotten of God, but through natural childbirth.

Blessings, brothers and sisters. :)
 
Amen, and I regret that this well hashed subject has been dragged up without prayer and subjection to the leading of God. there was and there will be no good come of it.

I absolutely agree with you Bill. I hate to see any mention of subject. I personally believe that if God wanted me to know about this matter of angels, He would have plainly told about it in His Word. At least told you and me! :hysterical
 
My previous post was a succinct reply to chessman's (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah) question, nothing more. Yet, sabers continue to rattle. The "matter" is neither "well hashed" nor "petty;" the word of God would not have us ignorant about angels.

Recall that "they are not all Israel which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6). Those that have followed God into the truth of salvation in his only begotten son Jesus Christ are no longer Jews or Gentiles -- they are now the sons of God. Those sons are not in a separate construct called the "church" or the "bride" or some other term lifted out of the context of scripture. They are the Remnant of Israel -- a spiritual body of believers that "doeth truth [and] cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:21).

Ephesians tells us "all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light; for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." (Ephesians 5:13) This profound truth is plainly telling the reader that it is the increasing of the light, manifested in a vessel of honour, that is the catalyst for the spiritual clash that is steadily increasing in severity.

The incredible truth here is that "the sons of God" are seen "in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world..." (Philippians 2:15) As that light shines into the darkness, the darkness comprehends it not; and as the world continues to deteriorate into evil, the "sons of God" continue the process of the externalization of the powerful Spirit of God that is growing in us.

Writing early in the first century, the Apostle Paul brings the study full circle in the book of Romans. In a futurist context, we learn that "the whole creation groaneth and travaileth together in pain until now" (Romans 8:22). This verse poignantly speaks of how all aspects of creation are under the same curse of sin.

Paul also articulates the great hope that at some point this physical bondage will be destroyed. He tells us that before that release occurs, "the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God" (Romans 8:19). This statement is pointing to a time when the "sons of God" will lead the entire creation to a state of release from the spiritual decay that presently plagues the world. This "manifestation" will only occur in its fullness when Jesus Christ returns.

The Preterist (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah) would say this has already occurred, yet it is clear the creation is still in an abominable condition. The Rapturists would say this "manifestation" occurs at the so-called "rapture" -- but their (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah) version still has a world that "groaneth and travaileth" in the tribulation after they've managed their unscriptural evacuation.

The truth is very straightforward, and in the end times it will occur very much like it did in the time of Christ. As Jesus Christ confronted the corrupted priesthood, they became defensive of their position and standing, and progressively increased their opposition to him. The same thing occurred in the lives of the Apostles as the power of God increased exponentially in the face of the opposition they encountered. Remember, "that which maketh manifest is light." The first century Christians ended up ministering outside of the "church" and, as they began to move supernaturally, and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The Tribulation Saints will do the same. As the Spirit of God grows in us, the darkness reacts to it. It is the light which causes the darkness to manifest itself -- even when the vessel that hosts it is posing as a minister of righteousness. (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah)

Look around you. (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah) That spirit will ultimately drive the corporate church to work within the prevailing political order to facilitate the destruction of those that tell the truth.

As the world deteriorates to unheard of levels of spiritual desolation, the power that works in Jesus Christ as the head of the church will be manifested in the lives of the Remnant, and the world will hate us for it. But Jesus Christ sustains us when he says "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33).
 
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Recall that "they are not all Israel which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6). Those that have followed God into the truth of salvation in his only begotten son Jesus Christ are no longer Jews or Gentiles -- they are now the sons of God. Those sons are not in a separate construct called the "church" or the "bride" or some other term lifted out of the context of scripture. They are the Remnant of Israel -- a spiritual body of believers that "doeth truth [and] cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:21).

Indeed this is a good point...we are no longer mere "humans" if we are genuinely born from above, we are now the sons of God (Beni Elohim...beings like Christ after He was raised up...eternal and temporal...a brand new creature of the last Adam)
 
My previous post was a succinct reply to chessman's (Edited belittling comment, Obadiah) question, nothing more. Yet, sabers continue to rattle. The "matter" is neither "well hashed" nor "petty;" the word of God would not have us ignorant about angels...

I agree with this. Think about it...The Genesis 6 chapter may be a touchy subject for some, but it is at the beginning of the bible. I think that the Lord wants us to understand the reality of the spiritual realm and dealings of the spiritual beings as they affect mankind. Otherwise it wouldn't be in there! Personally, I feel as if one needs to understand this chapter if one is to understand the rest of the bible. It makes so much more clear that happens later on in scripture if one has a good hold on this chapter.

Like the Lord telling the Isrealites to go wipe out an entire race for instance. Genocide some say, and perhaps it was...but for a darn good reason. And if there had been intermingling of the beings, and corruption of the gene pool...then it begins to make perfect sense as to why God would order such a thing to be done.
 
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Recall that "they are not all Israel which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6). Those that have followed God into the truth of salvation in his only begotten son Jesus Christ are no longer Jews or Gentiles -- they are now the sons of God. Those sons are not in a separate construct called the "church" or the "bride" or some other term lifted out of the context of scripture. They are the Remnant of Israel -- a spiritual body of believers that "doeth truth [and] cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:21).

Indeed this is a good point...we are no longer mere "humans" if we are genuinely born from above, we are now the sons of God (Beni Elohim...beings like Christ after He was raised up...eternal and temporal...a brand new creature of the last Adam)

Right brother! And when this happens, it will be a direct creation of the Lord of us from a human state to a spiritual being.
 
The Nephilim that were produced by the angel/mankind marriage were much different from either of their parents. This went against God's plan for the Earth in which each animal and human being was to reproduce "after its own kind." (Genesis 1:24 KJB) This is perhaps the best demonstration that the parents of these creatures were not simply descendants of Cain and Seth. Had they been, they would have produced human offspring, rather than the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were more than simply large beings or giants. The Hebrew word Nephilim has been translated into Greek as gegenes. This is the same word used in Greek mythology for the "Titans," creatures created through the interbreeding of the Greek gods and human beings. (The English words "genes" and "genetics" are built around the same root word as gegenes; genea means "breed" or "kind.")

In the past there has been criticism of the theory that human beings could be genetically modified to become giants or superhuman creatures. Science has recently proven otherwise.

In April 1997, scientists at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore revealed that they had discovered a gene in mice which they called growth/differentiation factor-8 (GDF-8). When mice cells were altered genetically to delete this gene, the creatures that were conceived from these altered eggs grew enormous muscles, becoming "super mice" for all practical purposes. (Reuters, "Absence of gene makes for mighty mice," 11:42 AM ET, April 30, 1997.)

The scientists wrote in the science journal Nature:

We disrupted the GDF-8 gene by gene targeting in mice. [Mice lacking the gene] are significantly larger than wild-type animals and show a large and widespread increase in skeletal muscle mass. Individual muscles of mutant animals weigh two to three times more than those of wild-type animals.


Notice that not only were the animals with the gDF-8 gene stronger, they were two to three times larger. In other words, the super mice were stronger and considerably larger than their natural brothers and sisters having an unaltered genetic makeup.

That's with just one gene altered.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to believe that if such creatures would result with just minor genetic modifications, that the offspring of an angel/human coupling would not be just as - if not more - modified. Because angels are noted for their great physical strength, it isn't unreasonable to think that the offspring of human interbreeding would also have such strength.

This is reflected in the second title given them in the Genesis 6:14 passage: "mighty men" and "men of renown." In other words, the "lab rats" of the past were human beings, with the "scientists" conducting their genetic research being fallen angels.

While several other Hebrew words translated as "giant" are used in the Bible, the only other place the actual word Nephilim is used outside of the Genesis 6 passage is in Numbers 13:33:

And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

This passage becomes very important in understanding Satan's plans for attacking mankind in the near future as this passage takes place long after Noah's flood which God sent to wipe out the offspring of the angel/human being interbreeding. That the Nephilim would be present in Canaan at this point in history can mean only one thing: the interbreeding between angels and mankind can and has happened not just once and not just in the distant past before the Great Flood. It wasn't so widespread and didn't threaten the entire human race, but it happened again long after the flood and has happened many other times as well.

A careful reading of the first introduction of this word in Genesis also shows that the Nephilim have appeared more than one time in history. The verses don't say that the first account was the only time this occurred. Rather,

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men... (Genesis 6:4 KJB)

It is important to notice that there were giants "in those days" and "also after that" time as well. Since the giants could only be coming from the sons of God interbreeding with the daughters of men, and since God wiped out the first instance of this with the Great Flood, this would have to mean that such couplings have occurred more than just once before the flood.

The passage about the giants in Numbers also explains why the word Nephilim is often translated into "giants" in English. The Jewish spies who reported the land was filled with Nephilim take the time to describe the creatures' size in relationship to human beings. The spies tell those who listen that the Jews were like grasshoppers both in the sight of the giants as well as in the sight of the spies.

If one stops to consider the relationship presented here, even given possible exaggeration of the differences in the mind of the spies, it is only logical to assume that the "sons of Anak" were huge, dwarfing the human beings who saw them. This passage also suggests that their strength might have been as great as that of a man compared to that of an insect. Little wonder, then, that the majority of the Jewish spies suggested that the Promised Land wasn't worth fighting for.

Unfortunately, the nay-sayers had the final say. The Jews didn't invade the Promised Land and instead wandered in the wilderness for another 40 years. But when their descendants finally entered what would become Israel, God exacted a judgment on the inhabitants of the land.

Like the Lord telling the Isrealites to go wipe out an entire race for instance. Genocide some say, and perhaps it was...but for a darn good reason. And if there had been intermingling of the beings, and corruption of the gene pool...then it begins to make perfect sense as to why God would order such a thing to be done.

There was indeed such “intermingling of the beings, and corruption of the gene pool.”

Just as God destroyed the Earth with a flood to wipe the Nephilim from the face of the Earth during Noah's time, so he used the flood of invading Jews flowing into the Promised Land to wipe out the giants they encountered. Realizing that some of the cities in the Promised Land were filled with Nephilim explains why God ordered some of the cities totally destroyed with the citizens in them to be put under the edge of the sword. God didn't want any of these monsters to once again pollute the human gene pool. God dealt out the same total destruction to these beings as he had with Noah's flood.

Sadly, most Christians and Jews are unaware of the biblical accounts that giants were found far and wide in the Promised Land. Most artwork, movies and the like further the ignorance by portraying everyone but Goliath as being normal size.

This misses the mark. Careful reading of the Bible reveals that in many areas the Nephilim held control of the cities. One hint at their widespread control is found in Deuteronomy which outlines the areas the invading Jews had conquered following their invasion of the land; this section of the Bible tells to which tribes the land was given. In one small excerpt from this, we can see that the Nephilim originally controlled much of the area:

And we took at that time out of the hand of the two kings of the Amorites the land that [was] on this side Jordan, from the river of Arnon unto mount Hermon; (Which Hermon the Sidonians call Sirion; and the Amorites call it Shenir;) All the cities of the plain, and all Gilead, and all Bashan, unto Salchah and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan.

For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

And this land, which we possessed at that time, from Aroer, which is by the river Arnon, and half mount Gilead, and the cities thereof, gave I unto the Reubenites and to the Gadites. And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
(Deuteronomy 3:8-13 KJB)

This passage proves that the giants were controlling the land when the Hebrews arrived. It was only through their courage in slaughtering these monsters that God was able to bring the reign of the Nephilim to an end in this region. (It should also be noted that the iron bed described in this passage could accommodate an individual over twelve feet tall.)

...continued...
 
Today there is archeological evidence to back up the biblical stories of Nephilim in the Promised Land. Writer Gary Stearman had this to say about ruins in the region that the Canaanites occupied during ancient times:

Today, tourists marvel at the ruins in this region. They are of truly gigantic proportion. As we have written earlier, "Here, and northward into Syria and Lebanon, there are the remains of ancient buildings and temples that stagger the imagination. For example, the ruins of Baalbek in Lebanon's Beqa' a Valley are so massive that some have suggested they could not be duplicated, even using modern building techniques.

"On the Acropolis of Baalbek, stood a temple dedicated to the storm god Hadad. It was 60 feet wide and 290 feet long, surrounded by 19 columns, each 62 feet high and over seven feet in diameter. But its flooring stones - still intact - are each larger than a modern railroad boxcar. No one can imagine how they were moved into place."
(Stearman, "The Cloning of a Man: Rebirth of an Ancient Idea," Prophecy In The News, April 1997.)

How an ancient people might have built such structures is a mystery. Unless, of course, the ruins were made by a people much larger than regular human beings.

Moses also gives us another alarming clue to the nature of the habits of the sons of Anak. The spies told Moses:

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. (Numbers 13:32 KJB)

The word translated into English as "eateth" is akal, meaning "to consume or eat." While the spies may have been speaking figuratively here (the word can be employed that way), this word often is used to mean the literal consumption of meat. And as we'll see, this may be pointing to what the spies saw as a danger presented by the sons of Anak: That the giants were also cannibalistic and would literally eat the inhabitants of the land should they choose to do so.

This view of giants has also been reflected in myths of many cultures, from those of the Greek Cyclops which were giants and ate human flesh, to the Old English tale of Jack and the Beanstalk in which the giant boasts "be him 'live or be him dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread." While obviously these myths can't be viewed as actual, the fact that many diverse cultures have such myths suggests they have been handed down from those who had dealt with flesh-eating giants in the distant past.

The Nephilim are described as the "sons of Anak" followed by a detailed list of the city-states that were in the area. The details Moses laid out in this passage gives us other important clues that enable the piecing together of who the giants were and thereby expose Satan's ongoing battle against the human race. This can be done by connecting this description of the Nephilim to other accounts that use a different word for giant, but then link the word in a manner that shows its connection to the Nephilim.

One such key is in Numbers when the Nephilim are described as the sons of Anak; the spies then note with which cities these giants are associated. Later, when giants are referred to in the Old Testament, the writer occasionally notes that the giant was like those found in one of these cities. This then gives us the "link" to prove that these giants are also Nephilim, even though a different Hebrew word is being used to describe them.

Thus, the key to making these relationships is in Numbers:

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. (Numbers 13:32 KJB)

Thus, when Moses uses another Hebrew term for "giant," he took pains to show the link between this term and the Nephilim during his cataloging of the peoples who were dwelling in the Promised Land:

The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims. (Deuteronomy 2:10-11 KJB)

The word translated as "giant" here is Raphah (or Rephaim in its plural form), a word that has several meanings including "giant," "ghost," and "deceased." In fact the same word or variants of it are translated as "dead" or "deceased" in other parts of the Bible. (Job 26:5; Psalm 88:10; Proverbs 2:18; Proverbs 21:16; Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 26:14; Isaiah 26:19 KJB)

Moses took the trouble to link the Nephilim to the Anakim. We can then see that the two terms are related and that the Raphah are Nephilim or, at least, creatures very similar to the Nephilim.

Although these races of giants were eventually rooted out of the Promised Land, their marks are still seen there even today. The three-mile-long vale commonly called Baqa' along the road to Bethlehem is still known as the "Valley of the Rephaim" or "Valley of the Giants." (Charles DeLoach, Giants: A Reference Guide from History, the Bible, and Recorded Legend, Scarecrow Press, Meuchen, NJ, 1995, p. 149) Other areas were associated with the giants in Joshua with the Avvim, Philistines, and Amorites all having some giants among their general populations.

The biblical contention that giants roamed the Promised Land is supported by archeological evidence (DeLoach, pp. 150-151) as well as the Ras Samra Texts, discovered in 1928, which make frequent mention of the Rephaim in their cuneiform texts. (DeLoach, p. 150)

The ancient historian Josephus also tells about the Jewish battle to wipe out the Nephilim in the Promised Land. He wrote that after the Jewish fighters had moved from Hebron to battle the Gibborim:

And when they had taken it, they slew all the inhabitants. There were till then left a race of giants, who had bodies so large, and countenances so entirely different from other men, that they were surprising to the sight and terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shown to this very day, unlike to any credible relations of other men. (Josephus, Antiquities, 5.2.3.)

Unfortunately, the Hebrew fighters tired of their work and didn't wipe out the very last of the Nephilim in the Promised Land. After seven years of fighting, Joshua permitted them to stop their war on the inhabitants of the land. While there were no Anakim left in most of the land, some remained in Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod. (Joshua 11:21-23 KJB) These would later join the Philistines and may have been part of the tribe of giants that migrated northward over the next millenium, traveling westward through Europe.
 
As distasteful a subject as it may be, to reject the possibility, even the remote possibility of the Angel view being the truth, is academically wrong, as well as a spiritual blunder. When we have a spiritual question, we most certainly go to scripture for the answer, and not to a man's writing. The Sons of Seth view is easily refuted with even a modicum of honest study and research. Any intelligent reasoning man would certainly sit up and take notice at the large amount of scripture which backs the Angel view up.

In keeping with the topic of the thread, (this has been said before but is noteworthy enough to repeat...) that scripture doesn't actually say that Angels can not have sex or do not have reproductive organs...it says that they do not marry in heaven. If it is believed that Angels do not have reproductive organs, then I would politely ask for a scripture to back this up. I can't find any scripture which says that, it is opinion. Unless I have missed it! Let's see your scripture brother. Please.
 
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