anime

[JoJoe]

Part of me still wonders how I got emotionally invested in Dragon Ball of all things.

Not counting the final filler arc (which I will not be watching), have only five episodes to go on the first series.

Dragon Ball Kai is the version of Z with refurbished and restored animation, without all the filler, more true to the manga in plot and dialogue. Only about half of the current episodes out are dubbed, though. So as much as I want to marathon the episodes, I had better just continue viewing them weekly on Toonami.
I have nothing against subs, but I prefer dubs--and I don't really like Goku's Japanese voice. No disrespect to the actress.

Lol! No matter if you like anime or not... Most people like Dragon Ball.

I can't stand dubs, most things translated from Japanese is just... Awkward.

Seems not as painful in subs... To me at least and let's face it woman play most protagonist.

My favorite anime is Ippo no hajima or fighting spirit. I like boxing and this anime was perfect for me at the time. Plus the fillers are always funny.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Haha. Some dubs are better than others. Though the only ones that genuinely bother me are the censored ones...like 4Kids. I'm an adult, I don't need my entertainment censored out the wazoo. But then I suppose 4Kids isn't for adults anyway, and the only anime I've watched where that was the only dub was Sonic X. (Sonic X sucks. Too kidish, even in Japanese.)

On Dragon Ball, the reason I'm surprised that I like it is because it's like 95% fighting, and I tend to go more for character interaction. I suppose there's simply enough interaction there to keep my interest.
I mean, I can enjoy fighting and battles. But when it drags on for a long time I get bored.

 

[evenifigoalone]

JoJoe
Say, do you read manga?

I read a quote by Toriyama where he stated that he didn't like how the people producing the anime made Goku a righteous hero. Well, here's the actual quote:

There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

And in a way that makes sense and makes Goku's character more interesting. It was stated (in the Kai dub, at least) that the reason he let Vegeta go was because he wanted to fight him again. (I haven't read the entire manga, though I have gone to look up specific parts to compare to the portrayal in the anime and see what was different.)
At the same time, even with what Toriyama said, I have a really hard time seeing Goku as an entirely selfish guy. He's good natured and is shown to not want to kill things without good reason. (Aside from the animals he eats, heh.) And he obviously cares about his family and friends and other people--including in his manga portrayal. Many of the things Goku did was for the sake of others, from taking down the Red Ribbon Army tower because of their oppressive power, to risking losing the four star dragon ball (which was his keepsake to remember his grandfather by) in order to restore the life of another boy's father, and he would have killed Piccolo Jr if doing so would not have ended Kami's life, etc.
But I guess his primary motivation of being stronger being his main driving force doesn't have to mean he doesn't actually care about other people. People aren't purely good anyway, and Saiyans are basically an evil race because they have a strong bloodlust. So Goku being a Saiyan and yet being purely good or purely motivated by good wouldn't make much sense. (Even if Goku is an unusual Saiyan anyway, because he only wants a good fight. He doesn't want to kill.)

I suppose it's possible for him to have a good heart but without his motivations necessarily being entirely pure. He's motivated by his own impulses, not by wanting to be a "good guy".
And I suppose if that's the case and he still ends up doing good things...well, you could say that's more purehearted than doing good things because you want to be "good"--y'know?
Righteous, definitely not. But purehearted, yes.

 

[JoJoe]

Haha. Some dubs are better than others. Though the only ones that genuinely bother me are the censored ones...like 4Kids. I'm an adult, I don't need my entertainment censored out the wazoo. But then I suppose 4Kids isn't for adults anyway, and the only anime I've watched where that was the only dub was Sonic X. (Sonic X sucks. Too kidish, even in Japanese.)

On Dragon Ball, the reason I'm surprised that I like it is because it's like 95% fighting, and I tend to go more for character interaction. I suppose there's simply enough interaction there to keep my interest.
I mean, I can enjoy fighting and battles. But when it drags on for a long time I get bored.

Yeah I do read manga and Sonic X wasn't what I hoped it would be. Otaku since 88'!
Thanks to my dad I suppose for playing Astro Boy and Fist of north star when I was like 3, never stopped since.

I never looked at the Drangonball manga mainly because I was content with anime. I knew it was changed cause mainly most manga get either toned down or changed(Pokemon for example). I might look at it now though because that is quite interesting.

What's worse to me is what Hollywood does to manga or anime. Priest for instance... Originally it is a manhwa(Korean manga). The original is about twelve fallen angels and not just vampires. Ugh... Vampires....

The only manga I am still reading currently is One Piece. I can't stand the anime for some reason... Probably the voice acting.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I've only heard of the horror or anime movie adaptions, not specifically seen. Dragon Ball Evolution lol

Recently I read a manga adaption of Sword Art Online. I want to maybe get the original light novels sometime. I think the GGO arc isn't available in English yet, though,
A friend has like 20 volumes of Inuyasha and is letting me borrow a couple at a time, so I'm reading that now.

I've only been into anime for two or three years now. Growing up my mom never approved of it, even though what anime was on tv at the time was censored and pretty innocent.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So Dragon Ball GT isn't manga canon. I get the idea that if I watched it I would both like and hate it.

With a new Dragon Ball series coming out this July, I guess it won't really matter anyway? Cause Toriyama's overseeing this one. Hm, I wonder, does that make it canon...?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Watched a couple episodes of Kai way ahead there to see part of a specific arc. Haha, Gohan's Japanese voice is a lot like Goku's.

 

[Milk-Drops]

So Dragon Ball GT isn't manga canon. I get the idea that if I watched it I would both like and hate it.

With a new Dragon Ball series coming out this July, I guess it won't really matter anyway? Cause Toriyama's overseeing this one. Hm, I wonder, does that make it canon...?

I actually just powered through all of GT. Its not bad, but its very confused. The power levels are weird and it has no idea if it wants to be action pact or comedic. The finale feels like a good way to leave the series. I feel that Toriyama picking up the series and retconing GT is a mistake on his part. I am going to watch it, but lord do I think that he's about to find out why Toe abandoned GT and ended it early. The IP is way to invested and there is no way the fans are going to be happy. Also Toriyama quit the story because it became redundant in the first place. Where exactly can the story go from here?

 

[jasonc]

Toe as in toe animation?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Toe as in toe animation?

Yep, the one and only.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I actually just powered through all of GT. Its not bad, but its very confused. The power levels are weird and it has no idea if it wants to be action pact or comedic. The finale feels like a good way to leave the series. I feel that Toriyama picking up the series and retconing GT is a mistake on his part. I am going to watch it, but lord do I think that he's about to find out why Toe abandoned GT and ended it early. The IP is way to invested and there is no way the fans are going to be happy. Also Toriyama quit the story because it became redundant in the first place. Where exactly can the story go from here?

I would probably enjoy GT mainly for the comedy, have to admit.
I do see what you're saying. I did enjoy the movie Battle of Gods from a couple years back, but running franchises into the ground doesn't end well.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I would probably enjoy GT mainly for the comedy, have to admit.
I do see what you're saying. I did enjoy the movie Battle of Gods from a couple years back, but running franchises into the ground doesn't end well.

The real problem with GT is that the fanbase had no idea how to react to it. DBZ was very action orientated. The first season was pretty cohesive and interesting because it broke out of the box that Toriyama wrote himself in with the Freeza through Boo seasons. The problem was the DBZ fans just wanted more Boo saga, so Bebie was introduced a whole season too early and ham fisted to save ratings. The the super 17 saga came in and all the character building and was tossed right out the window and it became a juke box of old villains and self reference. You can litteraly remove the entire super 17 story and the finale would not change at all, except for one death. The show was fun but since the fan base did not want any kind of change in the show format, it killed itself.

 

[jasonc]

Yep, the one and only.

they also worked on transformers gen one.

 

[Milk-Drops]

they also worked on transformers gen one.

And the first season of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. :3

 

[jasonc]

And the first season of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. :3

I didn't know that.I haven't watched the turtles in ages.

 

[evenifigoalone]

One season of Legend of Korra was animated by Studio Perriot, the studio that animates Naruto.
They aren't the best animators, though. Their animation on the current Naruto episodes is pretty bad/lazy.

Though I have yet to see anything that tops this:

 

[evenifigoalone]

Anybody watch/ed Death Note?
Here's a Death Note parody of a song by a YouTuber known as Natewantstobattle:

 

[JoJoe]

Anybody watch/ed Death Note?
Here's a Death Note parody of a song by a YouTuber known as Natewantstobattle:

My friend showed me the first episode... I then bought(I don't usually buy most anime) and pulled an all nighter till it was done. One of my favorite anime by far, the movies were awesome as well. Thanks for sharing that video, very interesting.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Since I made a post where I rambled about Goku's character, here's a copy of a couple tumblr posts where I do so further:

I’m just musing, ignore if you like. (Oh, and I just spent an hour writing this out and it disappeared. This is my second attempt. Can I punch something please?)
So, Toriyama had stated that he didn’t intend Goku as a righteous hero. Essentially, that Goku’s actions result in good might be called a happy accident. Not that Goku is bad or evil, just that he’s…more neutral, I guess.

This is interesting to think about, because Goku has a very “live and let live” mentality. He doesn’t wish evil on others, and in fact he gets angry when innocent lives are threatened. (Especially if it’s his friends or family.) He doesn’t even kill his enemies in many cases…though a large motivation for this is that he wants to fight them again. (He even says so.) But I’ve also seen it said by others that he views others as their own individuals with their own ideology and motivations. From what I’ve seen, I think this is true, too. His decisions seem to have multiple reasonings.
Still, he seems willing enough to kill in some cases. The general at the Red Ribbon tower, Piccolo, Piccolo Jr, Cell.
The case of the general at the Red Ribbon Army tower…I don’t remember if this is in the anime, but in the manga when the general threatens to kill the village elder and the village elder says to not worry about him and just stop the general, Goku is like “really? If that’s what you want, okay”. (Then the elder changes his mind when he realizes that Goku will actually go through with it.)
Piccolo….Goku actually did kill him. As much as Piccolo was a monster, I think a lot of Goku’s motivation was revenge over Krillin’s death. Not to say that the rest of the world being under Piccolo’s rule wasn’t also a motivation.
Piccolo Jr, Goku was willing to kill at one point. (He fired a kamehameha wave that he expected to kill him.) At the end of the fight, he stated that he didn’t want Kami to die, but he also said (at least, in the manga) that he didn’t want to lose his rival. His reasoning being that he beat Piccolo once and he could do it again. I find it interesting that Goku didn’t want to kill Kami, despite him being fully willing to die. Whereas in the example just above Goku was willing to let someone die in a fight if that’s what they wanted. I suppose it has a lot to do with the bigger picture…no Kami, no dragon balls, no earth guardian.
As far as we know, it doesn’t appear that there was any question about killing Cell. He was a heartless monster who killed innocents AND Goku knew he was no match for him.

Goku is stated to be mainly motivated by the desire for a good fight, but it does seem pretty clear that he, at least, considers intentionally hurting others to be wrong. He is horrified by his Saiyan heritage when he first hears about it, and calls them monsters and doesn’t fully consider himself a Saiyan until the Freeza saga.
Still, his desire to fight is strong enough that it often does overshadow everything else and he makes some decisions that puts everyone, including family and friends, in *more* danger. (Letting Vegeta live, not killing the creator of the androids before he could make them, etc. His main motivations being that he wants to fight them, and he says so.)
I’d like to say that he perhaps doesn’t always see the bigger picture and realize how bad those decisions are, but thinking on the glimpses we get into his thought process I’m not entirely convinced that’s true. Others have typed him as a Sensing type (MBTI), and I agree with that. Meaning that Intuition, or the ability to see the “big picture” is an inferior function. Still, there are plenty of instances where he does use intuition and use it well, such as when he realizes that the dragon balls would be gone if Kami died. His thought process is very much internal, too, and we only get glimpses of it.
It is clear that he doesn’t want to hurt others, but I would say at the very least that he allows his desire to fight and become stronger to impair his judgment. Perhaps he justifies it to himself by rationalizing that he won’t allow himself to lose, or that any damage that is done can be undone by the dragon balls.

Goku seems to somewhat project his love of fighting onto others, too. (At least other fighters.) He states that he could have killed Buu when he was in SSJ3 form, but that he wanted to give the kids a chance at him. He assumed that they wanted to fight as much as him. Which, to be fair, isn’t an idea that’s severely out there, considering that Goten and Trunks are half Saiyan and gifted martial artists. (Still, that’s a lot of pressure to put on a couple of kids, even if they seemed pretty eager to do it. Did Goku even consider the ramifications of that choice?) Goku more than once seems to think that others deserve a chance at fighting and is willing to let them. (Though the primary example that comes to mind other than the one I just mentioned is the Son Goku and His Friends Return OVA, and I’m not sure if that’s canon or not. Pretty sure there are examples from DBZ itself, too, aside from the one I just mentioned.)

Does all this make Goku “innocently selfish”? I don’t know, but despite what I may have thought a couple days ago, probably not…? I do think it likely that his perception is skewed somewhat because he isn’t normal or human.

Perhaps it’s just because I always see the best in others whenever possible, especially when it’s a character I like and genuinely don’t want to see in a bad light, but to me…it only makes Goku a guy who isn’t perfect and who is pretty selfish. And we all are selfish to an extent…heck, I don’t think even our best actions are entirely void of selfishness. …so, who am I to judge? And I do think he’s a well meaning guy for the most part. Plus, this is fiction, and fiction is great for exploring things you wouldn’t necessarily want to happen in reality.
Anyway, there goes another hour and a half I spent just because pondering this is interesting.

Thinking on this further, I can’t help but ponder how different Goku’s actions might have been if the dragon balls didn’t exist.

Of course, if they didn’t exist, then none of the series would have happened, Goku would have kept living on his own in the mountains and as a consequence have likely died by the time the Saiyans invaded if not sooner. Because he wouldn’t have gone on all those adventures that made him stronger.

But what I’m really asking is, what if there were actual consequences for his actions? He makes some reckless decisions that had the potential to turn out really badly, after all. They just happened to work out, and they had the dragon balls as a failsafe in most to all cases.
It really annoys the crap out of me when people look at Toriyama’s commentary on Goku and use that to say doesn’t care about others at all. I don’t think that’s true. Toriyama wrote Goku being extremely angry and upset when people he cares about are hurt–that’s the only time you actually see Goku in that kind of state, actually. So I don’t see Toriyama’s statement as saying that Goku doesn’t care about others at all. Just that his priorities are a little screwy–he’s ruled by his impulses above all, not some noble principle to stand for good.
In fact, considering that Goku impulsively ran off to fight the thing that killed Krillin and avenge his death despite being warned by those around him that that was a foolish move (he had been fighting all day and was almost out of energy), I’d say that at heart his friends are pretty important to him.

At any rate, I still have to wonder how Goku would act if they didn’t have the dragon balls or other dues ex machina failsafes. Would Goku take fewer risks perhaps? Would some of his actions result in horrible consequences that he would have to live with? He has a very “take things as they come” attitude, sure, and doesn’t stress out over maybes–”for all we know what you did was the best option”–but still. I don’t think he would be able to shrug absolutely anything off. Especially not the permanent deaths of those he cared about.
Overall, I don’t really know and I’m not the best at speculating these kind of things.

Cuz the guy is a flippin enigma when viewed in the light of Toriyama's comments, and it makes him mysterious and interesting to try to figure out. Also, I kinda hate it when people take what Toriyama said and say that it makes Goku a bad guy...he's such a good natured, amiable guy, I have a really hard time seeing him in a bad light. To be honest, that's my primary reason for devoting as much thought to it as I have. XD Though, don't get me wrong, it's also just fun to try to figure the guy out. His thought process is very internal, so we don't often see his reasoning pointblank.

 

[evenifigoalone]

My friend showed me the first episode... I then bought(I don't usually buy most anime) and pulled an all nighter till it was done. One of my favorite anime by far, the movies were awesome as well. Thanks for sharing that video, very interesting.

It's definitely one of the best and most interesting anime I've watched