Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

[Carry_Your_Name]

First of all God brought into existence creation whether we're talking about heavenly existence or physical existence from nothing. Also Death isn't matter, and death is thrown into the lake of fire, and death can't feel any pain, so what happens to death when death is thrown into the lake of fire. From my research and study of the scriptures when the scriptures say that death will be thrown into the lake of fire, that means death will cease to exist forever.

Don't you think "cease to exist forever" is an oxymoron? What is to be tormented "forever and ever" if nothing exists?

I know for a fact that God brought creation into existence.

Yes, that proves there must be a Creator God outside the system of the universe, the universe can't come into existence by itself.

So just as God caused the angels and human beings to come into existence as living persons, God can cause evil angels and unrighteous humans to cease to exist as living persons.

That's your misinterpretation, reading annihilationism into the text. The devil will be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will be tormented forever (Rev. 20:10), so will all who follow him (20:15). Second death is not "cease to exist", but eternal separation from God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I agree some are annihilated, but others are not. That is taught by the details revealed to us.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46, 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, “their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Rev. 21:8) of “eternity” in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

Some would object claiming “Death and Hades” are personified in this context, but as “sea” is also listed as a place the dead rise from, that is impossible. In context they are places the dead rise from that God created, therefore Guilty of nothing. Their being tossed into the fire is to symbolize their destruction, never to return. Whereas Satan and crew are guilty of eternal sins, therefore, “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

Does the Lake of Fire Symbolize Eternal Torment? | End Time News

Does the Lake of Fire Symbolize Eternal Torment for all cast into it? When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10). These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming...

endtimenews.net

This discussion on annihilation is totally missing the point. When Death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire, that's the fulfillment of Paul's teaching about resurrection in 1 Cor. 50-58, which goes further back to Hosea 12:13. Contrary to conventional belief that saints immediately go to heaven, ain'ts immediately go to hell, both saints and ain'ts go to Hades, Lord Jesus himself went to Hades for at least two days. When all are resurrected from the dead, death will lose its power over them, it can't keep the dead in hades any more, they're liberated from death and hades. It is a simple and common understanding that the saints live twice, die once; the ain'ts live once, die twice. This is supposed to be an inspiring message, revelation of eternal fate, and hope for a new life, not a philosophical debate.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This discussion on annihilation is totally missing the point.

Incorrect. Many scriptures teach annihilation, or imply it.

They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed (08045 שָׁמַד shamad) them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:14 NKJ)

08045 שָׁמַד shamad {shaw-mad'}
Meaning: 1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated.-Strong's Concordance

Only God has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16), the "spirit" leaves the human soul upon death and returns to God. It is the animating principle of life (Ecc. 3:21). The soul becomes a shadow of its former self, a "shade":

They are dead, they will not live; they are shades (07496 רָפָא rapha'), they will not arise; to that end thou hast visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them. (Isa. 26:14 RSV)

07496 רָפָא rapha'
Meaning: 1) ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits.-Strong's Concordance


Without a body, the soul will eventually cease to exist. That is why there is a resurrection of the wicked, so the soul within the body persists until fully punished according to deeds.


When you cast straw into fire, it immediately is consumed. But if you cast a rock into the fire, it remains in the fire forever.

So also those cast into the lake of fire. Some are consumed immediately, burned up and become ashes. Others persist, for their "part" in the lake of fire determined "according to deeds".

That some resurrection bodies are totally destroyed, which destroys the soul within them, is plainly stated:

You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts. (Mal. 4:3 NKJ)

But others who committed ETERNAL sins like stumble God's children, have their souls imprisoned in abominable resurrection bodies reeking of corruption:

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. (Gal. 6:8 NKJ)

Their worm does not die out which requires their resurrection bodies exist forever.

"And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isa. 66:24-1:1 NKJ)

They receive eternal torment, their resurrection bodies now communicating the Holy Wrath of an offended God, punishing them for misusing bodies that bear the image and likeness of God. God will dwell in His people, therefore our bodies are the "temple of God". These sinners misused their bodies for sin, in effect defiling the Temple of God.

Therefore, He communicates His Holy wrath undiluted, through the very body misused for sin---to the souls imprisoned within.

For those who guilty of eternal sins, the torments of being eaten alive by worms and burned by the unquenchable fire of Gehenna, is eternal:

42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
43 "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell (1067 γέεννα geenna), into the fire that shall never be quenched--
44 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
45 "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell (1067 γέεννα geenna), into the fire that shall never be quenched--
46 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
47 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell (1067 γέεννα geenna) fire--
48 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' (Mk. 9:42-48 NKJ)

1067 γέεννα geenna {gheh'-en-nah}
Meaning: 1) Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.


Therefore, its not "one size fits all", punishment is "according to deeds, works". Those who committed eternal sins suffer eternally. Those who did not, do not. They suffer according to their deeds. Some are immediately burned up when cast into the lake of fire, others endure for time and then are annihilated. Others like Satan, the Beast and False prophet, suffer eternally.


That is what scripture teaches. Its time Protestants leave Catholic "generalization" behind, and focus on the details scripture provides. Its all fully revealed, if one will accept it.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ)

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
21 They will pass through it hard pressed and hungry; and it shall happen, when they are hungry, that they will be enraged and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
22 Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. (Isa. 8:20-22 NKJ)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Incorrect. Many scriptures teach annihilation, or imply it.

They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed (08045 שָׁמַד shamad) them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:14 NKJ)

08045 שָׁמַד shamad {shaw-mad'}
Meaning: 1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated.-Strong's Concordance

Only God has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16), the "spirit" leaves the human soul upon death and returns to God. It is the animating principle of life (Ecc. 3:21). The soul becomes a shadow of its former self, a "shade":

They are dead, they will not live; they are shades (07496 רָפָא rapha'), they will not arise; to that end thou hast visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them. (Isa. 26:14 RSV)

07496 רָפָא rapha'
Meaning: 1) ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits.-Strong's Concordance


Without a body, the soul will eventually cease to exist. That is why there is a resurrection of the wicked, so the soul within the body persists until fully punished according to deeds.


When you cast straw into fire, it immediately is consumed. But if you cast a rock into the fire, it remains in the fire forever.

So also those cast into the lake of fire. Some are consumed immediately, burned up and become ashes. Others persist, for their "part" in the lake of fire determined "according to deeds".

That some resurrection bodies are totally destroyed, which destroys the soul within them, is plainly stated:

You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts. (Mal. 4:3 NKJ)

But others who committed ETERNAL sins like stumble God's children, have their souls imprisoned in abominable resurrection bodies reeking of corruption:

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. (Gal. 6:8 NKJ)

Their worm does not die out which requires their resurrection bodies exist forever.

"And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isa. 66:24-1:1 NKJ)

They receive eternal torment, their resurrection bodies now communicating the Holy Wrath of an offended God, punishing them for misusing bodies that bear the image and likeness of God. God will dwell in His people, therefore our bodies are the "temple of God". These sinners misused their bodies for sin, in effect defiling the Temple of God.

Therefore, He communicates His Holy wrath undiluted, through the very body misused for sin---to the souls imprisoned within.

For those who guilty of eternal sins, the torments of being eaten alive by worms and burned by the unquenchable fire of Gehenna, is eternal:

42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
43 "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell (1067 γέεννα geenna), into the fire that shall never be quenched--
44 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
45 "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell (1067 γέεννα geenna), into the fire that shall never be quenched--
46 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
47 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell (1067 γέεννα geenna) fire--
48 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' (Mk. 9:42-48 NKJ)

1067 γέεννα geenna {gheh'-en-nah}
Meaning: 1) Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.


Therefore, its not "one size fits all", punishment is "according to deeds, works". Those who committed eternal sins suffer eternally. Those who did not, do not. They suffer according to their deeds. Some are immediately burned up when cast into the lake of fire, others endure for time and then are annihilated. Others like Satan, the Beast and False prophet, suffer eternally.


That is what scripture teaches. Its time Protestants leave Catholic "generalization" behind, and focus on the details scripture provides. Its all fully revealed, if one will accept it.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ)

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
21 They will pass through it hard pressed and hungry; and it shall happen, when they are hungry, that they will be enraged and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
22 Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. (Isa. 8:20-22 NKJ)

Friend, how about we leave the after life - or after-after life to God, let God make his judgement? Both of us can dole out verses upon verses of Scriptures to back up our own arguments, but I think at least we can agree on one thing, that death is the absolute dividing line, the saved will be united with God forever, the unsaved will be separated from God forever, whether you believe the lake of fire means eternal punishment or total annihilation, there's no repentance in Hades, there's no purgatory, there's no chance to sneak into New Jerusalem, the status of your relationship with God can only be built in this life. The richman was denied access to Abraham's bosom, which is another term for paradise; the prodigal son, however, was accepted back home, the loving father was waiting for him with open arms. That's the difference between life and death.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Friend, how about we leave the after life - or after-after life to God, let God make his judgement? Both of us can dole out verses upon verses of Scriptures to back up our own arguments, but I think at least we can agree on one thing, that death is the absolute dividing line, the saved will be united with God forever, the unsaved will be separated from God forever, whether you believe the lake of fire means eternal punishment or total annihilation, there's no repentance in Hades, there's no purgatory, there's no chance to sneak into New Jerusalem, the status of your relationship with God can only be built in this life. The richman was denied access to Abraham's bosom, which is another term for paradise; the prodigal son, however, was accepted back home, the loving father was waiting for him with open arms. That's the difference between life and death.

21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; (Ps. 139:21-23 NKJ)

You cite the Rich Man in Hades. Can you answer this: "Why did Abraham and the Redeemed with him want to cross over, endure the fires of hell, to comfort the Rich Man?

If he was an irredeemable enemy of God: 1)Would he not be cursing Abraham and God?; 2) Why would the redeemed with Abraham want to endure the fires of hell to comfort the Rich Man if he was being punished for sins? [That would make them enemies of God, subverting His will]

`And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' (Lk. 16:26 NKJ)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You cite the Rich Man in Hades. Can you answer this: "Why did Abraham and the Redeemed with him want to cross over, endure the fires of hell, to comfort the Rich Man?

That sounds like a loaded question. Neither Abraham nor Lazarus intends to cross over and comfort the Rich Man. In fact, he begged Abraham for comfort, Abraham straightforward declined, only Lazarus, the Redeemed who was with him, deserved to be comforted, while he deserved to be punished.

“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. (Lk. 16:24-25)

Abraham just told him the hard truth that his fate is sealed. Maybe there're some other redeemed whom the "those" are referring to, and they have some pity on him, but there's nothing they can do. This is reiterated in Rev. 3:7 - "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens."

 

[Alfred Persson]

That sounds like a loaded question. Neither Abraham nor Lazarus intends to cross over and comfort the Rich Man. In fact, he begged Abraham for comfort, Abraham straightforward declined, only Lazarus, the Redeemed who was with him, deserved to be comforted, while he deserved to be punished.

“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. (Lk. 16:24-25)

Abraham just told him the hard truth that his fate is sealed. Maybe there're some other redeemed whom the "those" are referring to, and they have some pity on him, but there's nothing they can do. This is reiterated in Rev. 3:7 - "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens."

That's evasive. The Question concerns exegesis, your interpretation does NOT fit the details revealed in the Scripture.

The Rich Man calling Abraham Father, with respect is not what a unrepentant sinner would do. Nor would Abraham (God's Friend) call him "son, child", which is a term of endearment, affection---if he was an evil doer.

That Abraham and the Redeemed WANTED to endure Hell Fire to comfort him, is NOT how God's people respond to the wicked being justly punished for their sins.

Therefore, your interpretation is wrong----contradicted by everyone's actions in this text.

The torments in Hades are NOT eternal. All the dead in Hades will come out to check if their names are in the Book of life, or have their punishment in the lake of fire determined "according to their works" (Rev. 20:11-15).

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-21:1 NKJ)

Verse 15 clearly implies "some were found written in the book of life". Some have tried to evade this obvious implication by misclassifying "And if anyone (εἴ τις)" was not found in the Book of Life" as a hypothetical "first-class condition" used in argumentation. However, John isn't arguing a point, he is reporting what he saw.

Abraham and the redeemed with him WANTED to comfort the Rich Man because they knew he was repentant, which means his name would be found written in the book of life on Judgment Day when Hades is emptied of its souls:

Is The Rich Man and Lazarus Story About Hell Prophecy Parable or both? | End Time News

34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 13:34-35

endtimenews.net

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That's evasive. The Question concerns exegesis, your interpretation does NOT fit the details revealed in the Scripture.

The Rich Man calling Abraham Father, with respect is not what a unrepentant sinner would do. Nor would Abraham (God's Friend) call him "son, child", which is a term of endearment, affection---if he was an evil doer.

The rich man did repent, but repenting in Hades is TOO LATE, that's the point, that's exegetical, and that's not evasive. You have to repent like the prodigal son while you're alive. None of your reasoning matters because none of his respect for Abraham in Hades matters. Tell me, did he honor Abraham as Father while he was enjoying his feast? Where in the bible says he showed any endearment or affection? Nowhere? Good, then he's an evil doer.

Verse 15 clearly implies "some were found written in the book of life". Some have tried to evade this obvious implication by misclassifying "And if anyone (εἴ τις)" was not found in the Book of Life" as a hypothetical "first-class condition" used in argumentation. However, John isn't arguing a point, he is reporting what he saw.

Abraham and the redeemed with him WANTED to comfort the Rich Man because they knew he was repentant, which means his name would be found written in the book of life on Judgment Day when Hades is emptied of its souls:

Then please explain why DIDN'T father Abraham dip cool water on his tongue to comfort him. Again, none of your reasoning matters because it's impossible to reach across the great gulf in between, even if Abraham and the redeemed with him wanted to. It is your interpretation that doesn't fit the Scripture, not mine.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The rich man did repent, but repenting in Hades is TOO LATE, that's the point, that's exegetical, and that's not evasive. You have to repent like the prodigal son while you're alive. None of your reasoning matters because none of his respect for Abraham in Hades matters. Tell me, did he honor Abraham as Father while he was enjoying his feast? Where in the bible says he showed any endearment or affection? Nowhere? Good, then he's an evil doer.

Then please explain why DIDN'T father Abraham dip cool water on his tongue to comfort him. Again, none of your reasoning matters because it's impossible to reach across the great gulf in between, even if Abraham and the redeemed with him wanted to. It is your interpretation that doesn't fit the Scripture, not mine.

Because of the great gulf neither Abraham or the redeemed could do what they WANTED to do, comfort the rich man.

Repentance in Sheol/Hades is PLAINLY taught in scripture, but ignored by Catholic and their offspring Protestant churches.

Early Christians like Clement of Alexandria (150–215) a Christian teacher who spent his twilight years with Alexander the Bishop of Jerusalem had this to say about souls in Hades:

So I think it is demonstrated that God (being good) and the Lord (being powerful) both save with a righteousness and equality that extends to all who turn to God, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is present. Rather, it is everywhere and is always at work.… For it is not right that those persons [who died before Christ] should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after His coming should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, EE Eastern), 2.491. Dead, Intermediate State of The. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 192). Hendrickson Publishers.

Mouse click for scripture reference, or the bracketed reference for my comment at my site:

Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity is explicit or implicit:

Dt. 32:39 [#A]; 1Sam. 2:6 [#B]; 2Sam. 22:5-7 [#C]; Ps. 16:10-11 [#D]; Ps. 30:3-6 [#E]; Ps. 40:1-3 [#F]; Ps. 49:12-15 [#G]; Ps. 56:13 [#H]; Ps. 68:18-20 [#I]; Ps. 69:13-18 [#J]; Ps. 71:19-23 [#K]; Ps. 86:13 [#L]; Ps. 102:18-22 [#M]; Ps. 116:1-9 [#N]; Hos. 13:14 [#O]; Jon. 2:1-10 [#P]; Zec. 9:9-11 [#Q]; Mt. 12:30-32[#R]; John 5:28-29[#S]; Rm. 11:25-36[#T]; 1 Pt. 3:18-22[#U]; 1 Pt. 4:6[#V]; 1 Cor. 5:5[#W]; Eph. 4:8-10[#I]; Heb. 9:27-28[#X]; Rev. 20:11-15[#Y];[#Z]

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Repentance in Sheol/Hades is PLAINLY taught in scripture, but ignored by Catholic and their offspring Protestant churches.

That's the teaching of purgatory, which doesn't exist. You can't bear fruit worthy of repentance in Hades. Interestingly, evil doers don't repent while they're alive, they react to God's judgement by cursing the holy name of God; in Hades there's plenty of repentance, there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, but that's too late, the Lord is not gonna hear them. If you teach repentance, then teach repentance in THIS life, not in Sheol/Hades.

Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory. (Rev. 16:8-9)

 

[Alfred Persson]

That's the teaching of purgatory, which doesn't exist. You can't bear fruit worthy of repentance in Hades.

Ignoring scripture and mischaracterizing postmortem opportunity for all as a Catholic purgatory doesn't win the argument for you.

Protestants are loyal followers of Catholic beliefs about Hades, but no one should confuse eisegesis as being "scriptural".

You have "Augustine" and his fellow Catholics, I have the clear testimony of scripture:

Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity is explicit or implicit:

Dt. 32:39 [#A]; 1Sam. 2:6 [#B]; 2Sam. 22:5-7 [#C]; Ps. 16:10-11 [#D]; Ps. 30:3-6 [#E]; Ps. 40:1-3 [#F]; Ps. 49:12-15 [#G]; Ps. 56:13 [#H]; Ps. 68:18-20 [#I]; Ps. 69:13-18 [#J]; Ps. 71:19-23 [#K]; Ps. 86:13 [#L]; Ps. 102:18-22 [#M]; Ps. 116:1-9 [#N]; Hos. 13:14 [#O]; Jon. 2:1-10 [#P]; Zec. 9:9-11 [#Q]; Mt. 12:30-32[#R]; John 5:28-29[#S]; Rm. 11:25-36[#T]; 1 Pt. 3:18-22[#U]; 1 Pt. 4:6[#V]; 1 Cor. 5:5[#W]; Eph. 4:8-10[#I]; Heb. 9:27-28[#X]; Rev. 20:11-15[#Y];[#Z]


16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ)

 

[reddogs]

Friend, where is any of this in my post? I said The universe could not created ITSELF from nothing, nor could it be destroyed into nothing by ITSELF. You need to reevaluate your false dilemma of “faith vs science”, because real science is in agreement with the Bible, this one in particular proves the necessity for a beginning and a creator of the universe!

God has the power, what do you think Omnipotent means..

 

[Alfred Persson]

That's the teaching of purgatory, which doesn't exist. You can't bear fruit worthy of repentance in Hades. Interestingly, evil doers don't repent while they're alive, they react to God's judgement by cursing the holy name of God; in Hades there's plenty of repentance, there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, but that's too late, the Lord is not gonna hear them. If you teach repentance, then teach repentance in THIS life, not in Sheol/Hades.

Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory. (Rev. 16:8-9)

Augustine of Hippo established your idea the dead cannot repent in hell, ironically enough while discussing prayers for the Dead:

110. There is no denying that the souls of the dead are benefited by the piety of their living friends, when the sacrifice of the Mediator is offered for the dead, or alms are given in the church. But these means benefit only those who, when they were living, have merited that such services could be of help to them. For there is a mode of life that is neither so good as not to need such helps after death nor so bad as not to gain benefit from them after death.

Augustine of Hippo. (2007). Enchiridion on Faith, Hope, and Love

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You have "Augustine" and his fellow Catholics, I have the clear testimony of scripture:

Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity is explicit or implicit:

No, you don't have anything on this. Scripture teaches repentance in this life, not repentance in the afterlife.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No, you don't have anything on this. Scripture teaches repentance in this life, not repentance in the afterlife.

On the contrary, I have these:

Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity is explicit or implicit:

Dt. 32:39 [#A]; 1Sam. 2:6 [#B]; 2Sam. 22:5-7 [#C]; Ps. 16:10-11 [#D]; Ps. 30:3-6 [#E]; Ps. 40:1-3 [#F]; Ps. 49:12-15 [#G]; Ps. 56:13 [#H]; Ps. 68:18-20 [#I]; Ps. 69:13-18 [#J]; Ps. 71:19-23 [#K]; Ps. 86:13 [#L]; Ps. 102:18-22 [#M]; Ps. 116:1-9 [#N]; Hos. 13:14 [#O]; Jon. 2:1-10 [#P]; Zec. 9:9-11 [#Q]; Mt. 12:30-32[#R]; John 5:28-29[#S]; Rm. 11:25-36[#T]; 1 Pt. 3:18-22[#U]; 1 Pt. 4:6[#V]; 1 Cor. 5:5[#W]; Eph. 4:8-10[#I]; Heb. 9:27-28[#X]; Rev. 20:11-15[#Y];[#Z]

Ignoring facts doesn't win arguments. Constant repetition only works for the Establishment, who controls media and big tech, so we get the constant progressive spin on everything. It works over time as our "reality" is saturated with lies. Eventually they are accepted as true. Its a well known psychological phenomena.

But when a poster ignores facts and keeps repeating an error, it only demonstrates "cognitive dissonance."

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Augustine of Hippo established your idea the dead cannot repent in hell, ironically enough while discussing prayers for the Dead:

Good, a legendary theologian like Augustine has far greater credibility than you, and he certainly understood the Scripture better than you do. And you still don't get it, that it doesn't matter whether the dead can repent or not, because when you're dead, your fate is sealed. Repentance in Hades is misleading. Why don't you repent before you go down in Hades?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

On the contrary, I have these:

Irrelevant. None of these has anything to do with repentance in hades.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Irrelevant. None of these has anything to do with repentance in hades.

"Cognitive dissonance" and "confirmation bias". When emotionally attached to a belief the brain refuses to see contrary facts, it "filters them out" because they cause too much "doubt" about one's beliefs.

That normally is a good thing, otherwise we would "freeze up" like a mindless computer whenever something "different" happened not foreseen in the programming. But its not a good thing for believers to ignore scripture. We must discipline ourselves to accept what Scripture teaches, even if it causes us to be rejected by our social group.

I once was a protestant "heresy hunter" behaving much like you, copy pasting the "official dogma" against heretics.

But only for a time, because my love for God's truth is greater than my desire to win praise from my fellows.

44 "How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? (Jn. 5:44 NKJ)

43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. (Jn. 12:43 NKJ)

 

[Barney Bright]

Don't you think "cease to exist forever" is an oxymoron? What is to be tormented "forever and ever" if nothing exists?

Yes, that proves there must be a Creator God outside the system of the universe, the universe can't come into existence by itself.

That's your misinterpretation, reading annihilationism into the text. The devil will be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will be tormented forever (Rev. 20:10), so will all who follow him (20:15). Second death is not "cease to exist", but eternal separation from God.

I don't believe it's an misinterpretation, just because you or someone else says so. I believe what's written down at Genesis 2:7 and obviously you don't, because this scripture shows that the physical human bodies that were formed from the dust of the ground is what became a living Soul, or living person, when God blew the breath/spirit of life into the physical human body. So when the breath/spirit of life isn't in the physical human body then it's the physical human body that ceases being a living soul or living person. The only hope we have after death is that God resurrects us from the dead and we become living souls or living persons again. The hope for the dead has always been the resurrection hope.

 

[Barney Bright]

I agree some are annihilated, but others are not. That is taught by the details revealed to us.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46, 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, “their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Rev. 21:8) of “eternity” in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

Some would object claiming “Death and Hades” are personified in this context, but as “sea” is also listed as a place the dead rise from, that is impossible. In context they are places the dead rise from that God, therefore Guilty of nothing. Their being tossed into the fire is to symbolize their destruction, never to return. Whereas Satan and crew are guilty of eternal sins, therefore, “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

Does the Lake of Fire Symbolize Eternal Torment? | End Time News

Does the Lake of Fire Symbolize Eternal Torment for all cast into it? When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10). These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming...

endtimenews.net

I disagree that Satan and his demons, the Beast, and false prophet are literally alive and literally feeling pain when thrown into the lake of fire. They would have to have immortality, for that to happen. You will find nowhere in the scriptures in which immortality, eternal life, or everlasting life are used as punishments. Immortality, everlasting life and eternal life are always rewards for the righteous or faithful. Satan and his demons, the Beast, and the false prophet are not righteous or faithful so they would never have immortality, everlasting life, or eternal life because they are rewards given to the righteous or faithful, they're not punishments given to the unrighteous, or unfaithful, because as I said I have never found where immortality, everlasting life or eternal life are given to the unrighteous or unfaithful.