Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

[Free]

They're people. Because He says their dead they're probably worldly.

Right. So, Jesus uses “dead” in a sense of not being physically dead. In light of that, perhaps you want to rethink this:

“All will be alive but only some will have life? That doesn't make sense.”

 

[Hopeful 2]

The verses you posted earlier say ages, not forever. Your choice is to decide who is correct, the theologians or Jesus and the apostles. That's an easy choice for me.

They say "for ever", and I even bolded them.

 

[Butch5]

Right. So, Jesus uses “dead” in a sense of not being physically dead. In light of that, perhaps you want to rethink this:

“All will be alive but only some will have life? That doesn't make sense.”

Not at all. The context of the statement was literal life and death. It wasn't figurative. Here is the post.

If someone was conscious after death wouldn't they be alive and not dead?

All of us will be "alive" a million years from now , looking at eternity yet to go .
But only some of us will have "life".

 

[Butch5]

They say "for ever", and I even bolded them.

The English translation says forever. The Greek text does not.

Matthew 13:49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

The word translated "world" is the same word they translated forever. It's aion. Now, why do you suppose they changed it from forever to world? It's because they're definition doesn't work. Jesus said, "so shall it be at the end of the aion:"

That begs the question if aion means forever or eternity, why is Jesus speaking of it ending? By definition forever or eternity don't end. Yet, right here in this passage Jesus says it does end. That leaves us with a decision to make. Who is correct, the theologians or Jesus? That's an easy choice for me.

 

[Free]

Not at all. The context of the statement was literal life and death. It wasn't figurative. Here is the post.


All of us will be "alive" a million years from now , looking at eternity yet to go .
But only some of us will have "life".

Looks figurative to me. The very same ise of language that Jesus used. So, again, perhaps you want to rethink this:

“All will be alive but only some will have life? That doesn't make sense.”

 

[Butch5]

Looks figurative to me. The very same ise of language that Jesus used. So, again, perhaps you want to rethink this:

“All will be alive but only some will have life? That doesn't make sense.”

The context is literal life and death.

 

[Free]

The context is literal life and death.

It is and it isn’t, exactly like Jesus’s statement. The Bible has different meanings for “death”—spiritual and physical—as it does for life. You seem to want to Interpret everything according to your view, even if it means interpreting the same ideas literal in one instance and figurative in another, rather than being consistent.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The English translation says forever. The Greek text does not.

Matthew 13:49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

The word translated "world" is the same word they translated forever. It's aion. Now, why do you suppose they changed it from forever to world? It's because they're definition doesn't work. Jesus said, "so shall it be at the end of the aion:"

That begs the question if aion means forever or eternity, why is Jesus speaking of it ending? By definition forever or eternity don't end. Yet, right here in this passage Jesus says it does end. That leaves us with a decision to make. Who is correct, the theologians or Jesus? That's an easy choice for me.

I read English, but not Greek.
So I am sticking with the pre-reinterpreted text.

 

[Butch5]

It is and it isn’t, exactly like Jesus’s statement. The Bible has different meanings for “death”—spiritual and physical—as it does for life. You seem to want to Interpret everything according to your view, even if it means interpreting the same ideas literal in one instance and figurative in another, rather than being consistent.

Firstly, I would argue that the Bible uses death literally and figuratively, not physically and spiritually. There is only physical death. Any other use is figurative.

I would also submit that I am being consistent and using it in the same sense in both places. It's you who has introduced the idea of a figurative use . The original post said everyone will be alive and some will have life. Consecrated didn't elaborate on what was meant by, ' some will have life.' Therefore it was left up to me to interpret what was meant. As you can see from my reply I interpreted life literally in both cases which is why I said it didn't make sense.

 

[Butch5]

I read English, but not Greek.
So I am sticking with the pre-reinterpreted text.

But, the Bible was written in Greek, not English. So, again, you're left with the same problem. Someone is wrong. Your choice is between modern theologians and Jesus and the apostles. I see you've made you choice. Why do you think the modern theologians are correct and Jesus is wrong?

 

[Hopeful 2]

But, the Bible was written in Greek, not English. So, again, you're left with the same problem. Someone is wrong. Your choice is between modern theologians and Jesus and the apostles. I see you've made you choice. Why do you think the modern theologians are correct and Jesus is wrong?

I believe that the translators of the KJV of the bible were guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy]

The word means an age, not forever.

You disagree with their understanding of greek in regard to the meaning in english?

Revelation 20:10 Greek Text Analysis

 

[Butch5]

I believe that the translators of the KJV of the bible were guided by the Holy Spirit.

Then whyd they get it wrong? You only have two choices, the translators or Jesus.

 

[Butch5]

You disagree with their understanding of greek in regard to the meaning in english?

Revelation 20:10 Greek Text Analysis

I do. So do Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Then whyd they get it wrong? You only have two choices, the translators or Jesus.

How would you know what Jesus meant except through the translators? If you speak of Jesus's words in English, that would make you yourself a translator.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then whyd they get it wrong? You only have two choices, the translators or Jesus.

I went back to your post #544, and think I see the problem.
You say the word 'world' is translated as 'ever'.
The actual phrase that translates to 'ever' is 'the end of the world'.

 

[Butch5]

How would you know what Jesus meant except through the translators? If you speak of Jesus's words in English, that would make you yourself a translator.

Because I know what the Greek word means. Many do. However, it's clear from looking at how the word is used in Scripture that it doesn't mean forever.

 

[Butch5]

I went back to your post #544, and think I see the problem.
You say the word 'world' is translated as 'ever'.
The actual phrase that translates to 'ever' is 'the end of the world'.

No, the word that they translated "world" is the Greek word "aion." It's the same word they translate forever in other passages. If Jesus spoke of the end of the aion, then the aion ends. If we can't believe that Jesus knew the language he spoke there's really no point being here. So, Jesus said it ends. Now the English words forever and eternity are by definition unending. Thus, aion cannot mean eternity or forever.

Yet, in spite of this fact, translators translate the word as eternal or forever. That leaves us with a decision. Who are we going to believe? Who knew Koine Greek better, Jesus or today's modern translators?

For me that's an easy question to answer. However, from what I've seen, it seems to be an incredibly difficult one for most Christians to answer. I wonder why that is.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Because I know what the Greek word means. Many do. However, it's clear from looking at how the word is used in Scripture that it doesn't mean forever.

Modern discoveries unveil mysteries and deepen our understanding of the bible, shedding new lights on many passages, especially the prophecies, what used to be perceived as nothing more than allegorical or figurative language now begin to make sense, because knowing ancient Greek doesn't guarantee you of knowing certain references. If I tell you about "dirty dozen" and "clean fifteen" in English, you probably have no idea what those are without googling. Isn't that what happened during Jesus's own ministry? His disciples knew the Scripture in its original language, they followed the Lord three and half years, and yet they still had no clue about His death, resurrection and ascension until they came to pass.

 

[Butch5]

Modern discoveries unveil mysteries and deepen our understanding of the bible, shedding new lights on many passages, especially the prophecies, what used to be perceived as nothing more than allegorical or figurative language now begin to make sense, because knowing ancient Greek doesn't guarantee you of knowing certain references. If I tell you about "dirty dozen" and "clean fifteen" in English, you probably have no idea what those are without googling. Isn't that what happened during Jesus's own ministry? His disciples knew the Scripture in its original language, they followed the Lord three and half years, and yet they still had no clue about His death, resurrection and ascension until they came to pass.

Actually, I do know what the dirty dozen and clean fifteen are without Googling them. They're are reference to fruits and vegetables. However, I don't see how your post here bears on the issue at hand. The apostles didn't understand some things because there were mysteries hidden in the Old Testament that were revealed in the New. But, we're talking at a Greek word here. What does that have to do with hidden mysteries?