[_ Old Earth _] Answers in Genesis

[Featherbop]

Again droop,

Again Vorlon, You choose to make an atheist "arguement" instead of a real one. Very nice. You are not held to a high standard however, and it is amusing, so, on to the first point!

Proof must be provided by the one making a positive claim in a debate.

Okay, talk to reznwerks then, as he made a false claim, and provided no evidence. Oh yeah, I forgot, atheists are immune to having to provide evidence for things.

_____

Ok, now, point out where in this topic, that I claimed God existed. I forget whether I did or not, so you are obligated to show it to me. Even if I did, debate is irrelevant, as God exists regardless of how much evidence I give that proves it. Or how much you give that is against the existance of God.

_____

Next, the proof of God is far from "anecdotal", it is collected from a variety of sources: The sciences, miracles, existance, personal experiances(that I do not classify as miracles), even from atheists.

Creatures of reason(and you also, vorlon) are forced by their own nature to accept waht is true, and that waht is true is not decided on by the evidence presented for it. There is a smaller chance of my existance than for God, yet I exist. You can easily come up with evidence that I should not exist. But with God, the evidence, and methods of obtaining the evidence is vastly seperated(at least, I admit, in some distinct ways) from the other, physical real objects. Oh, how easy, and how difficult it is to see how easy this is. Really, I will admit that there is evidence that indicates that God may not exist, but it is so irrelevant, it should make an atheist roll over in it's grave. Of, course, the atheist doen't understand what is his to know, so why care, right? I don't, as you may have guessed. I do what this is for the very purest of selfish, personal reasons.

__________

As for evolution, it may or may not require more/less faith than LGC.

There are two basic types of creationism: Literal genesis, and theistic evolutionary. Atheism dies at the feet of both. Good day.

P.S.

Oh and good job reducing yourself to namecalling, very classy.

Because I am forced to be truthful, an atheist is offended. You have my deepest pity.

 

[Guest]

Again droop, you fail to understand the idea of burden of proof. Proof must be provided by the one making a positive claim in a debate. You and all abrahamic religions posit the existence of Yahweh, thus the evidence for Yahweh must be provided.

Evolution by default requires fewer leaps in logic(next to none) than belief in Yahweh, because evidence that evolution happens EXISTS! The only none circular evidence ever presented in favor of your god is anecdotal, thus useless in a debate.

Oh and good job reducing yourself to namecalling, very classy.

:B-fly: There is no evidence for evolution! NONE!
I am evidence that God lives,even if I can't prove it to you the way you
want it proven. Creation is proof of God,and it absolutely takes greater faith to believe that people evolved from animals.
Evolution has no proof,thats another reason I say,if you don't want to believe there is a God,just say that,don't also claim a religious view along side of it.
pagans believe evolution still to this very day and it's even more popular
and gaining more ground all the time. You don't have to fear evolution being accepted by religious groups at all,but you won't stop them from believing in a god also. they go together for the ancient pagan religions.
You won't stop the belief in God at all,it's getting stronger than ever before. So people not accepting evolution isn't the problem you face.
I do not believe in evolution because I avoid paganism and all occults,sects,ect......

 

[Guest]

Again droop, you fail to understand the idea of burden of proof. Proof must be provided by the one making a positive claim in a debate. You and all abrahamic religions posit the existence of Yahweh, thus the evidence for Yahweh must be provided.

Evolution by default requires fewer leaps in logic(next to none) than belief in Yahweh, because evidence that evolution happens EXISTS! The only none circular evidence ever presented in favor of your god is anecdotal, thus useless in a debate.

Oh and good job reducing yourself to namecalling, very classy.

:Fade-color I am happy you admit that faith in God is positive,but I don't believe droopfeather was calling anyone names.
You don't believe the witnesses from the ancient words of the bible,but you will believe in those who have their own agenda,and base things on
their own biases.
Why would you put so much trust in the secular world and a religious view point at the same time if you are not trying to swing it both ways?
You are religious or you are not. you cannot have it both ways,or do you just get to pick and choose what religious parts you want to accept and the ones you don't want to believe?

 

[Guest]

Re: how so

[quote="


Let me interrupt please. How does it take a greater leap of faith to believe in evolution than believing in God? We have sound evidence for evolution we have no evidence at all for God. If there is something you don't know or can't explain and then attribute the explanation to God is not a solution but a default. Remember believing does not make something true no matter how hard you believe.

:B-fly: It takes more faith to believe in evolution because evolution has
no details to go on,and no book or anything to tell how it happened,and there is no evidence for it in our every day lives that we can see,but the bible gives an accurate account of everything,and details.
also,how can people be expected tp believe that people evolved from an
ape or ape like creature when that cannot be true.
most animals at birth can already walk,people cannot do that,not now,nor have they ever done so.
To believe that by chance all things just fell into random place knowing how great all of creation is, is a great leap of faith,and in my opinion,rather silly!
first I have heard many atheists say they do have morals,yet they claim
they didn't get them from God.
now I hear some of the atheists say they believe in evolutions,and also denie they got this idea from christians or religious groups.
sounds like some of them don't realize they are religious to me.

 

[Featherbop]

Yes, I did not call rezn a name. I said he was being seen as(at least by me) as a mindless atheist God-basher. The guy(girl maybe?) was making a claim, not providing any reason or evidence as to why we should beleive that, and, then, SV comes and says I have to prove God exists, but that reznwerks(or SV) have to prove nothing. They don't have to disprove, or give evidence against God, evidence for evolution, explain why it is easier to beleive in evolution. Nothing. Reznwerks showed his hatred of God, and Syntax showed his ignorance.

Should I laugh at their foolishness, or should I try to keep a straight face, and "debate" with them. hmmm.....

 

[Guest]

"Science has proven itself right over and over again,and it shall continue to do so. Just because man doesn't know everything,is no reason to believe the bible is right,when it shows itself to hold natural, scientific and moral flaws, and will continue to do so as time goes on."[/quote]

:roll:

Man trying to save Man!
Just cannot happen without God,amen!
Jesus is the God/Man and he saves us!
Test and see that the Lord is good.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I did not call rezn a name. I said he was being seen as(at least by me) as a mindless atheist God-basher. The guy(girl maybe?) was making a claim, not providing any reason or evidence as to why we should beleive that, and, then, SV comes and says I have to prove God exists, but that reznwerks(or SV) have to prove nothing. They don't have to disprove, or give evidence against God, evidence for evolution, explain why it is easier to beleive in evolution. Nothing. Reznwerks showed his hatred of God, and Syntax showed his ignorance.

Should I laugh at their foolishness, or should I try to keep a straight face, and "debate" with them. hmmm.....

:B-fly: I know what you mean, it isn't easy.
At least they are being told the truth unlike many atheists out there in
the world who haven't got a clue whats going on. Those are the ones I
tend to worry most about because when the New World Order comes around,and the Global religion they won't have a clue what to do,and they
may join the global religious system instead of choosing Christ Jesus.
At least the ones here might remember something when the time comes,and be saved. at least they know what to look for and they have
more awareness going for them.
There are many more atheists that don't,and they only hang out on message boards for atheists.
At least the atheists here are treated with love even if they don't know it
yet. like rezn,for example. we all are so use to him being here.We know
what he believes,but we accept him. we don't accept what he believes in,but we accept him as a person. I believe we all love him even if he
doesn't know that.
try to hang in there knowing Jesus loves them too,right?
easy? No!

 

[reznwerks]

evidence

reznwerks, I think she may have meant evolution without God takes more faith to beleive. I could be wrong though.

Now, you also need to stop the overused, and worthless, atheist arguements against God.
They are not worthless arguements if you can't refute them.
Your "atheism" is showing it's true colors, provide some real evidence against God, and maybe you can be taken seriously, and not be seen as a mindless atheist God-basher.

Sorry but you have gotten it backwards again. It is up to you to provide evidence that God exists. Not being able to explain something or argueing from consensus is not evidence for the existance of God. As to the term mindless I believe that if one accepts what is written by anonymous authors without sufficient or verifiable evidence that is called gullible and not far from the actual definition of mindless.

 

[Guest]

Re: evidence

reznwerks, I think she may have meant evolution without God takes more faith to beleive. I could be wrong though.

Now, you also need to stop the overused, and worthless, atheist arguements against God.
They are not worthless arguements if you can't refute them.
Your "atheism" is showing it's true colors, provide some real evidence against God, and maybe you can be taken seriously, and not be seen as a mindless atheist God-basher.

Sorry but you have gotten it backwards again. It is up to you to provide evidence that God exists. Not being able to explain something or argueing from consensus is not evidence for the existance of God. As to the term mindless I believe that if one accepts what is written by anonymous authors without sufficient or verifiable evidence that is called gullible and not far from the actual definition of mindless.

:B-fly: No authors? What? where do you get this from?
Calling us names shows us all who you follow loud and clear.
We are witnesses to the "FACT" that God exists,thats why we are
here!!! You know we don't force you to believe us,so what are you
trying to say? Are you calling all of us liars? We have evidence of
God in our own lives and Creation testifies to God so that all can know
God is alive and real,amen.
You are here among us,we are not seeking out those who believe as you
do,we are here. So you need to show us proof.
You cannot even say there is no God because you cannot be everywhere,
and you cannot go to the Heavens without a space suit on,and you don't
know everything. But we are witnesses of God,you are not a witness of
what you claim to be true.
Angels even have evidence they are real and God is real. Outer-
Space proves that even people can float in the Heavens.
Oh',by the way,on the CNN secular news yesterday August 17th 2004
they said a cave was found where there was alot of water and markings
on a wall that seem to indicate it may of been a place where John the
Baptist Baptised people.
I'll see if I can find it on the internet,but it sure was in the news yesterday
morning!

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

So they found an historical sight, it's archeological evidence for the existence of John the Baptist, not god.

You are here among us,we are not seeking out those who believe as you
do,we are here. So you need to show us proof.

Wrong as always. I'm going to predict the next post you make in this thread will be just as filled with banal liturgies against disbelief and false statements. Burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. It doesn't matter where the claim is made. Debating rules, rules of informal logical argument, are anisotropic.

 

[Quath]

So they found an historical sight, it's archeological evidence for the existence of John the Baptist, not god.

I would have to go one further and say it is a site that is under investigation. John the Baptist's cave is just one interpretation. It could be a cave for any kind of worship. It could also be a place where some monks in the 4th or 5th century thought John should have been and made the images.

Personally, I don't even think that John the Baptist was a real person. It sounds too close to the story where Anup the Baptiser baptised Horus in the river Eridanus when Horus was 30 years old. Anup was later beheaded.

Quath

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Oh well. To the Bapt cave! :
(cookie for the reference)

 

[Guest]

Burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. It doesn't matter where the claim is made. Debating rules, rules of informal logical argument, are anisotropic.

:B-fly: So now you claim that the claim of proving God is a positive
claim? I wish you'd just make up your mind for once!

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. It doesn't matter where the claim is made. Debating rules, rules of informal logical argument, are anisotropic.

:B-fly: So now you claim that the claim of proving God is a positive
claim? I wish you'd just make up your mind for once!

Please provide a link to where I have ever said that claiming god to exist is a negative claim. To my knowledge I have never said or thought this.

 

[Guest]

Burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. It doesn't matter where the claim is made. Debating rules, rules of informal logical argument, are anisotropic.

:B-fly: So now you claim that the claim of proving God is a positive
claim? I wish you'd just make up your mind for once!

Please provide a link to where I have ever said that claiming god to exist is a negative claim. To my knowledge I have never said or thought this.

:Fade-color If it wasn't you,then I apologize.
Did you say you wanted links?

 

[Highlander]

This is too funny to watch. The believers keep twisting and turning trying to get out of proving that God exists. They keep saying he/she exists because they think he exists, well hey, my little granddaughters think Santa exists too. Does he? Well, Virginia, only in spirit, not in reality.

Funny, funny, funny. Thanks for the laughs. :D

 

[Guest]

This is too funny to watch. The believers keep twisting and turning trying to get out of proving that God exists. They keep saying he/she exists because they think he exists, well hey, my little granddaughters think Santa exists too. Does he? Well, Virginia, only in spirit, not in reality.

Funny, funny, funny. Thanks for the laughs. :D

:B-fly: No,"thank you"! We don't have to prove what we know.
We know God exists,thats how we know you cannot truly believe what
you claim to be true when you couldn't possibly have any proof against
God. We know he's alive,amen.
It is the fool who says in his heart,there is no God!
God's word says it,and I believe it.

 

[Sophistress]

It is the fool who says in his heart,there is no God!

Mat: 5:22 "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire"

See you in hell buddy.

 

[Guest]

So they found an historical sight, it's archeological evidence for the existence of John the Baptist, not god.

I would have to go one further and say it is a site that is under investigation. John the Baptist's cave is just one interpretation. It could be a cave for any kind of worship. It could also be a place where some monks in the 4th or 5th century thought John should have been and made the images.

Personally, I don't even think that John the Baptist was a real person. It sounds too close to the story where Anup the Baptiser baptised Horus in the river Eridanus when Horus was 30 years old. Anup was later beheaded.

Quath

:Fade-color Quath,there are many other sites out there with this news.
Also,check out all the Archaeological sites that have evidence of the bible
being the truth. It's very interesting. The christian doesn't have to have
these things to believe,Jesus Christ is enough evidence,but why don't you
go check out the archaeology sites that have found places,artifacts,and
ancient writings,and many other things. I don't believe you could call all
of them liars,but we do know that Lucy and the other so called human/
apes were fakes,every single one of them.
Christian scientists also have plenty to say about it too.

 

[Guest]

It is the fool who says in his heart,there is no God!

Mat: 5:22 "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire"

See you in hell buddy.

:D As you know,The bible says it is the fool who say in their heart,
there is no God! I didn't call you this,the bible did,and i believe what
it says,amen.
P.S. I am not a buddy to a lost individual who says trash about the Holy
Father!