Anyone read the following

[OzSpen]

Have you read any Josh McDowell and if so, what do you think of them?

Deborah,

I read a lot of Josh McDowell in my early days as an apologist: Evidence that demands a verdict; More evidence that demands a verdict; More than a carpenter. I found it very helpful.

I then studied for a little time in the late 1980s under apologist John W Montgomery and learned that Josh seemed to get much of his framework from Montgomery.

As Josh has gotten older, I have found his material comes too much out of a framework that assumes biblical understanding. I live in a post-Christian culture and I have to go further back than Josh allows. People are asking questions and challenging me today with philosophical perspectives that Josh did not address.

That's why I listen to and read more of Ravi Zacharias & the RZIM team, Norm Geisler, William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Phillip E. Johnson, Amy Orr-Ewing, Alister McGrath, Paul Copan, N T Wright, and others.

Blessings,
Oz

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Deborah,

I read a lot of Josh McDowell in my early days as an apologist: Evidence that demands a verdict; More evidence that demands a verdict; More than a carpenter. I found it very helpful.

I then studied for a little time in the late 1980s under apologist John W Montgomery and learned that Josh seemed to get much of his framework from Montgomery.

As Josh has gotten older, I have found his material comes too much out of a framework that assumes biblical understanding. I live in a post-Christian culture and I have to go further back than Josh allows. People are asking questions and challenging me today with philosophical perspectives that Josh did not address.

That's why I listen to and read more of Ravi Zacharias & the RZIM team, Norm Geisler, William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Phillip E. Johnson, Amy Orr-Ewing, Alister McGrath, Paul Copan, N T Wright, and others.

Blessings,
Oz

Wow, all I read is Joel Osteen and Moshe Rosen and C.S. Lewis.
The rest of the time I'm in the Bible.
But Oz, I notice you haven't read any Joel Osteen?

 

[Kidron]

Happy to oblige.

I agree with you.

I also, however, do agree with my post no. 57.
Of course. I wrote it after all !

W

-
Post 57 is nicely performed...
And i think its difficult to be filthy rich (Joel) and "feel" the same "life" as people who are in poverty, or just "doing" ok", or are "doing better then average".
Riches generally isolate you from average reality., as the Limo lifestyle forgets what it means to be "normal".
This is not to say that Christians should be poor and love it, as thats crazy theology, but there is such a thing as.... is 4 or 500 million ENOUGH YET?
Paul told you to be "content with what you have".
This isnt translated correctly in the new bibles as.... "wear filthy rags while eating out of dumpsters".

The way i feel about money, is that a believer is a joint heir of the Living Lord Jesus, who is always a King of Kings, and so, as we are "In Christ" we are a part of His "everything" He owns and He owns it ALL .
Prosperity should be engaging a believer's life, in all areas, all the time.
But when the "prosperity" focus becomes money driven, then the balance is lost, the moderation is gone, and that becomes the error of the "prosperity gospel".....as if its not taught correctly, it causes people to become "prosperity driven", instead of service driven, instead of love driven.

As long as i hear this type teacher saying...."God is prospering you to bless others, and not just to bless you".
"God gives so that WE can GIVE"..."""You are a channel of His increase, you are a vessel of His giving, and you are not to be a bank that hoards the prosperity.""
So, as long as prosperity is given these boundaries and conditions, to be abided by, then ......im good.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

-
Post 57 is nice performed...
And i think its difficult to be filthy rich (Joel) and "feel" the same "life" as people who are in poverty, or just "doing" ok", or are "doing better then average".
Riches generally isolate you from average reality., as the Limo lifestyle forgets what it means to be "normal".
This is not to say that Christians should be poor and love it, as thats crazy theology, but there is such a thing as.... is 4 or 500 million ENOUGH YET?
Paul told you to be "content with what you have".
This isnt translated correctly in the new bibles as.... "wear filthy rags while eating out of dumpsters".

The way i feel about money, is that a believer is a joint heir of the Living Lord Jesus, who is always a King of Kings, and so, as we are "In Christ" we are a part of His "everything" He owns and He owns it ALL .
Prosperity should be engaging a believer's life, in all areas, all the time.
But when the "prosperity" focus becomes money driven, then the balance is lost, the moderation is gone, and that can be the error of the "prosperity gospel".....as if its not taught correctly, it causes people to become "prosperity driven", instead of service driven, instead of love driven.

As long as i hear this type teacher saying...."God is prospering you to bless others, and not just to bless you".
"God gives so that WE can GIVE"..."""You are a channel of His increase, you are a vessel of His giving, and you are not to be a bank that hoards the prosperity.""
So, as long as prosperity is given these boundaries and conditions, to be abided by, then ......im good.

Sounds like you have a few bucks.
How about throwing some over this way?

 

[OzSpen]

I would also recommend Jesus' Resurrection: Fact or Figment?, which is based on a live a debate between William Lane Craig and Gerd Ludemann, with others having contributed to the book.

(I've had The Resurrection of the Son of God on my shelf for a few years but haven't gotten to it.)

Thanks Free,

I'll take a read when I finish writing my 80 lessons of curriculum for religious instruction in the state schools. I know of Ludemann's work from my dissertation. As for N T Wright and The Resurrection of the Son of God, because it is such a long and detailed exposition, I find it better to read in chunks that relate to my interest. To read the 738pp of narrative takes a lot of discipline - too much for me.

However, he has a brilliant chapter on 'Easter and history' (ch. 18) that is one of the finest I've read on dealing with the historical nature of this aspect of Christianity.

Oz

 

[Kidron]

Sounds like you have a few bucks.
How about throwing some over this way?

--

but you have to give it away..........and thats not the "catch",....... thats the "reason"..

-

View attachment 9470

 

[OzSpen]

Okay. Joel Olsteen could work for some people. For some he could be exactly what brings them to God.
He's obligated to do the sinner's prayer.

I have a problem with preachers that are too positive. What if someone isn't feeling that positiveness?
It makes you feel like you're doing something wrong.

I like balance. Positive, but with the cross mixed in. Jesus said to pick up your cross every day.
Joel makes it seem like there are no crosses. At least, the few times I've heard him, that's what I hear. I can't really listen to him.

Wondering

Joel Osteen has many other issues, including his 'Gospel light' teaching.

 

[Deborah13]

What's even more of a testimony is that my mum also believes Jesus as the Son of God who died and rose again for our sins he is no longer just a prophet.

 

[Deborah13]

I would also recommend Jesus' Resurrection: Fact or Figment?, which is based on a live a debate between William Lane Craig and Gerd Ludemann, with others having contributed to the book.

(I've had The Resurrection of the Son of God on my shelf for a few years but haven't gotten to it.)

There are several of William Lane Craig debates about the Resurrection with different people on youtube. :nod

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah,

I read a lot of Josh McDowell in my early days as an apologist: Evidence that demands a verdict; More evidence that demands a verdict; More than a carpenter. I found it very helpful.

I then studied for a little time in the late 1980s under apologist John W Montgomery and learned that Josh seemed to get much of his framework from Montgomery.

As Josh has gotten older, I have found his material comes too much out of a framework that assumes biblical understanding. I live in a post-Christian culture and I have to go further back than Josh allows. People are asking questions and challenging me today with philosophical perspectives that Josh did not address.

That's why I listen to and read more of Ravi Zacharias & the RZIM team, Norm Geisler, William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Phillip E. Johnson, Amy Orr-Ewing, Alister McGrath, Paul Copan, N T Wright, and others.

Blessings,
Oz

Thanks for your imput, it is very helpful. There are several of these names that are familiar to me. Thanks again.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
Post 57 is nice performed...
And i think its difficult to be filthy rich (Joel) and "feel" the same "life" as people who are in poverty, or just "doing" ok", or are "doing better then average".
Riches generally isolate you from average reality., as the Limo lifestyle forgets what it means to be "normal".
This is not to say that Christians should be poor and love it, as thats crazy theology, but there is such a thing as.... is 4 or 500 million ENOUGH YET?
Paul told you to be "content with what you have".
This isnt translated correctly in the new bibles as.... "wear filthy rags while eating out of dumpsters".

The way i feel about money, is that a believer is a joint heir of the Living Lord Jesus, who is always a King of Kings, and so, as we are "In Christ" we are a part of His "everything" He owns and He owns it ALL .
Prosperity should be engaging a believer's life, in all areas, all the time.
But when the "prosperity" focus becomes money driven, then the balance is lost, the moderation is gone, and that can be the error of the "prosperity gospel".....as if its not taught correctly, it causes people to become "prosperity driven", instead of service driven, instead of love driven.

As long as i hear this type teacher saying...."God is prospering you to bless others, and not just to bless you".
"God gives so that WE can GIVE"..."""You are a channel of His increase, you are a vessel of His giving, and you are not to be a bank that hoards the prosperity.""
So, as long as prosperity is given these boundaries and conditions, to be abided by, then ......im good.

Let's remember that it's not money that is at the root of all evil, it's the LOVE of money that is at the root of many problems.

It's the seeking after it. One might abandon his family, his principles - all to make more money.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God...
God should be no. 1 on our list. If one has the talent and opportunity to make a lot of money, I'm good with that too. As long as nothing in the Kingdom is compromised. Honesty and consideration for others should be a high priority for Christian businessmen, for example.

I'll say this - many successful people who are driven and make it to the top of their field, do feel that those who do not make it are lacking something; they seem them as inferior. They feel they have something extra that others don't have. This seems to be a prevailing feeling of theirs.

So, yes. I do wonder how much the Joel types understand poor people. One who take a limo all over Manhattan cannot know what it's like to take the subway. And so it is in other parts of daily living. They do help the poor and needy though, don't they? Food, fresh water, medicine, clothing. I believe we can say that they do help humanity in general.

I think this is off-topic.

W

 

[Kidron]

Let's remember that it's not money that is at the root of all evil, it's the LOVE of money that is at the root of many problems.

It's the seeking after it. One might abandon his family, his principles - all to make more money.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God...
God should be no. 1 on our list. If one has the talent and opportunity to make a lot of money, I'm good with that too. As long as nothing in the Kingdom is compromised. Honesty and consideration for others should be a high priority for Christian businessmen, for example.

I'll say this - many successful people who are driven and make it to the top of their field, do feel that those who do not make it are lacking something; they seem them as inferior. They feel they have something extra that others don't have. This seems to be a prevailing feeling of theirs.

So, yes. I do wonder how much the Joel types understand poor people. One who take a limo all over Manhattan cannot know what it's like to take the subway. And so it is in other parts of daily living. They do help the poor and needy though, don't they? Food, fresh water, medicine, clothing. I believe we can say that they do help humanity in general.

I think this is off-topic.

W

-
Nice post...
Also, its rumored that there are some ministers who are only worried about building a bigger TV ministry.
AS for some reason, being on 234 channels, 400 times a day, just isnt enough of them that they need to share with us.
This is the "root" of their evil.
"Self".
And its also a fact that the more you see them, the more they can ask you to send it in.
So, maybe thats another "root" issue they have..
And you know what?......i dont have a TV ministry, but if i did, you'll know its me because i will always lift up Jesus, The Blood of Jesus, and The Cross, put the emphasis on Paul's teaching, put the other emphasis on Soul WINNING, and never teach greed as your "seed faith" reason to think that God only helps you if you send in the money.
And thats what they should be doing, and a few of them actually do.