Are All who call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus saved? What can disqualify a "caller"?

[Cnkw3]

Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.

"But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven but was beating his breast and saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'" (Luke 18:13)

"Immediately the father of the child cried out, 'I believe; help my unbelief!'" (Mark 9:24)

Three times do people call on God/are told to call on God to ask for salvation.

That doesn’t say prayer. It says.…whosoever CALLS on the name of the Lord. Show me where that is tied to prayer in the NT. I can show you how it is tied to baptism and obedience to the gospel. But its NOT tied to prayer.

in Lk 18 you have a Jew praying to God in the temple. So what? That was what Jews were supposed to do. 2 chr 7:12-15. are you a Jew? Do you have a temple to go to?

Mk 9 is another Jew (jews were in a covenant relationship with God) and has nothing to do with an alien sinner needing to be saved from their sins. Do you have any examples under the new covenant? Jesus did away with the first so he could establish the second.

 

[Cnkw3]

Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.

You seem to like the idea of “reasoning”, but you just displayed what is wrong with “human” reasoning. You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information. True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly. but I think I’m talking to someone who doesn’t really care much for the Bible if some of your other post are truthful.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I didnt contradict myself. I never said that you should not be preached too. Many people preach, very few preach truth. What you should have done is act like the Bereans in Acts 17. They heard preaching then searched the scriptures to see if it was true preaching. You didnt do that. If you would you would have found that NOBODY was ever told to pray for their salvation.

Yes, you contradicted yourself as I clearly established.

Moreover, you assert something ludicrous, that we aren't to petition God with prayer to be saved:

2x (two witnesses) establishes the matter:

For "whoever calls (1941 ἐπικαλέομαι (ἐπικαλέω) on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:13 NKJ)

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls (1941 ἐπικαλέομαι (ἐπικαλέω) on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' (Acts 2:21 NKJ)

1941. ἐπικαλέω epikaléō; contracted epikalṓ; fut. epikalésō, from epí (1909), upon, and kaléō (2564), to call, to surname. To call upon.
(I) To call upon for aid. In the NT, only in the mid., to call upon for aid in one’s own behalf, to invoke, trans.
(A) Particularly of invocation addressed to Christ for aid (Acts 7:59; see Sept.: 1 Sam. 12:17, 18; 2 Sam. 22:7). Generally, to invoke, pray to, worship, spoken of God (Rom. 10:12, 14; 2 Tim. 2:22); followed by “the name” (Acts 2:21; 9:14; Rom. 10:13; Sept.: Gen. 4:26; 26:25; Deut. 33:19; Joel 2:32); of Christ, followed by “the name,” implying the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 9:21; 22:16; 1 Cor. 1:2).-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

Compare:

And whoever makes his prayer to the Lord will have salvation. (Acts 2:21 BBE)

 

[Free]

You seem to like the idea of “reasoning”, but you just displayed what is wrong with “human” reasoning. You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information. True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly. but I think I’m talking to someone who doesn’t really care much for the Bible if some of your other post are truthful.

Why don't you give us the biblical definition of "prayer"?

 

[Free]

Alfred Persson No response?

https://christianforums.net/threads...t-can-disqualify-a-caller.90459/#post-1674473

 

[Cnkw3]

Yes, you contradicted yourself as I clearly established.

Moreover, you assert something ludicrous, that we aren't to petition God with prayer to be saved:

2x (two witnesses) establishes the matter:

For "whoever calls (1941 ἐπικαλέομαι (ἐπικαλέω) on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:13 NKJ)

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls (1941 ἐπικαλέομαι (ἐπικαλέω) on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' (Acts 2:21 NKJ)

1941. ἐπικαλέω epikaléō; contracted epikalṓ; fut. epikalésō, from epí (1909), upon, and kaléō (2564), to call, to surname. To call upon.
(I) To call upon for aid. In the NT, only in the mid., to call upon for aid in one’s own behalf, to invoke, trans.
(A) Particularly of invocation addressed to Christ for aid (Acts 7:59; see Sept.: 1 Sam. 12:17, 18; 2 Sam. 22:7). Generally, to invoke, pray to, worship, spoken of God (Rom. 10:12, 14; 2 Tim. 2:22); followed by “the name” (Acts 2:21; 9:14; Rom. 10:13; Sept.: Gen. 4:26; 26:25; Deut. 33:19; Joel 2:32); of Christ, followed by “the name,” implying the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 9:21; 22:16; 1 Cor. 1:2).-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

Compare:

And whoever makes his prayer to the Lord will have salvation. (Acts 2:21 BBE)

None of what you just presented says anything of prayer. Look at Acts 2:21.…Peter told them that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Then he preaches christ and when it comes time the audience says….what shall we do? What did they mean? They obviously wanted to know what to do to be saved. Did Peter then tell them to say a prayer? No! He told them to repent and be baptized to remove sins. When does salvation occur? At the removal of sins and not before. Where is the prayer in acts chapter 2? It’s not there.
You also conveniently left out acts 22:16 which is a Bible commentary on what it means to “call on the name of the Lord”. Here Paul has been praying and blind for three days. Was he saved? No! He was still in his sins so that in itself proves one is not saved by prayer. A preacher then came and said this….
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16
How does one “call on the name of the Lord”? Through obedience to Gods plan of salvation which culminates in water baptism which the HS says…..washes away sins. This is a Bible definition of what this phrase means. I will take Gods word and explanation more than yours.

 

[Cnkw3]

Why don't you give us the biblical definition of "prayer"?

I can tell you that in the NT it’s NOT “calling on the name of the Lord”.
Prayer is something only the faithful Christian’s will find beneficial.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
1 Peter 3:12
Are the ears of God open to the unrighteous?
Not just anybody can pray. What about the above passage leads you to believe that an alien sinner can say a prayer and God will listen to it much less answer it. Prayer is a spiritual blessing reserved for those in the family of God.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:3
Where are spiritual blessings found? In Christ. How does one get into Christ? Through obedience to the gospel culminating in water baptism…Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3

 

[Free]

I can tell you that in the NT it’s NOT “calling on the name of the Lord”.
Prayer is something only the faithful Christian’s will find beneficial.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
1 Peter 3:12
Are the ears of God open to the unrighteous?
Not just anybody can pray. What about the above passage leads you to believe that an alien sinner can say a prayer and God will listen to it much less answer it. Prayer is a spiritual blessing reserved for those in the family of God.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:3
Where are spiritual blessings found? In Christ. How does one get into Christ? Through obedience to the gospel culminating in water baptism…Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3

None of this defines prayer. You chastise someone else for making up their own definition and coming "to a conclusion based off of that false information," and then state that "True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly," yet you have not provided one yourself.

What is the biblical definition of prayer?

 

[Cnkw3]

None of this defines prayer. You chastise someone else for making up their own definition and coming "to a conclusion based off of that false information," and then state that "True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly," yet you have not provided one yourself.

What is the biblical definition of prayer?

There are plenty examples in the Bible of what prayer is.
I will ask you a question but i know you wont answer because everybody on here likes to ask questions but NOBODY will answer one.
by reading what I presented above…..
Does the lord hear the prayer of the righteous or unrighteous?
When you answer that you will know, from the Bible, that you cant say a prayer for salvation as an alien sinner.
One must be obedient to the gospel, become a child of God, and then the spiritual blessing of prayer is available to them.
If you disagree feel free to explain why. And if you have a biblical definition of prayer that will set me straight then let me have it.

 

[Cnkw3]

None of this defines prayer. You chastise someone else for making up their own definition and coming "to a conclusion based off of that false information," and then state that "True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly," yet you have not provided one yourself.

What is the biblical definition of prayer?

Another thing…
Jesus said that when you pray you pray after this manner….
Our father who art in heaven.
If you are not yet a part of the family of God then how can you say ”our father”. He aint your father yet, not in the spiritual sense. You have not been born agin. So, again….you CANT pray for your salvation.

 

[Free]

There are plenty examples in the Bible of what prayer is.
I will ask you a question but i know you wont answer because everybody on here likes to ask questions but NOBODY will answer one.
by reading what I presented above…..
Does the lord hear the prayer of the righteous or unrighteous?
When you answer that you will know, from the Bible, that you cant say a prayer for salvation as an alien sinner.
One must be obedient to the gospel, become a child of God, and then the spiritual blessing of prayer is available to them.
If you disagree feel free to explain why. And if you have a biblical definition of prayer that will set me straight then let me have it.

Examples are examples; they should support a definition but are not a definition. The onus is on you to provide a biblical definition of prayer since you stated someone wasn't using one.

And do not claim that "i know you wont answer because everybody on here likes to ask questions but NOBODY will answer one," when you are doing that very thing. I will answer your question when you can provide a biblical definition of prayer.

 

[Cnkw3]

Examples are examples; they should support a definition but are not a definition. The onus is on you to provide a biblical definition of prayer since you stated someone wasn't using one.

And do not claim that "i know you wont answer because everybody on here likes to ask questions but NOBODY will answer one," when you are doing that very thing. I will answer your question when you can provide a biblical definition of prayer.

First of all I never said the person was not using a Biblical definition of prayer. Everybody knows what prayer is. It is clear throughout the Bible.
This person claimed that Rom 10:13 is referring to prayer. This is what they said…
“Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.”
They are wrong! I have proven through the Bible and let the Bible define what “calling on the name of the lord” in rom 10 is and it is not prayer.
I knew you wouldn’t and I know you still wont answer the very simple question I asked. The question in all of this is NOT….
What is prayer? Everybody knows what that is.
The question is….
Who can pray! And I have clearlay shown that the unrighteous, the alien sinner have no avenue of prayer for salvation.
Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: BUT your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
Isaiah 59:1-2
You say that….examples should support a definition? Ok, then show me ALL of the examples in the NT where the unrighteous, alien sinner was praying for salvation. If you are right then you should have plenty of examples to support your definition. I‘ll be waiting on them. But I'm pretty sure I”ll be waiting a long time.

 

[Free]

First of all I never said the person was not using a Biblical definition of prayer.

It is precisely what you said: "You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information."

Everybody knows what prayer is.

Then please provide a clear, concise definition. It should be easy if everybody knows what prayer is.

 

[Cnkw3]

It is precisely what you said: "You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information."


Then please provide a clear, concise definition. It should be easy if everybody knows what prayer is.

You didnt even read my post. Typical! This is classic troll maneuvers. Jump into a conversation that was not even with you and then distort the facts in hopes you might cause a problem just for problems sake.
I copied and pasted the very argument you are referring to and it plainly highlights that my problem was with the definition of….”calling on the name of the lord”. Which is not prayer. That is what this whole thread is about.
“Calling on the name of the Lord”. Rom 10:13. This is not prayer.
You got those examples of ALL the people that called for salvation through prayer?

 

[Free]

You didnt even read my post.

I read it.

Typical! This is classic troll maneuvers. Jump into a conversation that was not even with you and then distort the facts in hopes you might cause a problem just for problems sake.

So, because I am asking you a question which you have thus far refused to answer, I am a troll? If there is any trolling going on here, it would be on your part, not mine. I have distorted nothing; I have based everything on what has been argued.

I copied and pasted the very argument you are referring to and it plainly highlights that my problem was with the definition of….”calling on the name of the lord”. Which is not prayer. That is what this whole thread is about.
“Calling on the name of the Lord”. Rom 10:13. This is not prayer.

At this point you are fallacioulsy begging the question--you are presuming the very thing you conclude.

The argument put forward was this: 'Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.'

You first responded: 'That doesn’t say prayer. It says.…whosoever CALLS on the name of the Lord. Show me where that is tied to prayer in the NT. I can show you how it is tied to baptism and obedience to the gospel. But its NOT tied to prayer.'

Then you responded again with: 'You seem to like the idea of “reasoning”, but you just displayed what is wrong with “human” reasoning. You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information. True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly.'

My initial post to you was: 'Why don't you give us the biblical definition of "prayer"?'

And this you still have not done. If you do that, it might clear up some things and then the discussion can move forward.

 

[Cnkw3]

I read it.


So, because I am asking you a question which you have thus far refused to answer, I am a troll? If there is any trolling going on here, it would be on your part, not mine. I have distorted nothing; I have based everything on what has been argued.


At this point you are fallacioulsy begging the question--you are presuming the very thing you conclude.

The argument put forward was this: 'Wrong. Romans 10:13 says, "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's clearly speaking of a call to God for salvation, i.e., a prayer.'

What is the argument? is it about calling on the name of the lord or not?

You first responded: 'That doesn’t say prayer. It says.…whosoever CALLS on the name of the Lord. Show me where that is tied to prayer in the NT. I can show you how it is tied to baptism and obedience to the gospel. But its NOT tied to prayer.'

That is a true statement. Again, what is the argument? Calling on the name of the lord! Did I or did i not just say…I can show you how it (calling on the name of the lord) is tied to baptism and obedience to the gospel. How does any of this have to do with a ”biblical definition of prayer”.

Then you responded again with: 'You seem to like the idea of “reasoning”, but you just displayed what is wrong with “human” reasoning. You make up your own definition and then come to a conclusion based off of that false information. True Biblical reasoning comes when you let the Bible define what it means and then base your decision accordingly.'

EXACTLY. He based his entire argument on HIS definition of what Calling on the name of the lord was. I correctly pointed out that the Bible DOES NOT define it as prayer. That is a factual statement.

My initial post to you was: 'Why don't you give us the biblical definition of "prayer"?'

And this you still have not done. If you do that, it might clear up some things and then the discussion can move forward.

Was the discussion about “calling on the name of the lord” or not..
Yes or No.
You can settle this once and for all. You obviously believe that ”calling on the name of the Lord“ for salvation in Rom 10:13 is prayer. You can shut me up right now and I promise I will leave this board and never return. Show me ONE example of an alien sinner saying a prayer and being declared saved. Just one example of somebody saying the sinners prayer for salvation….calling on the name of the lord.
Surely your position is not that weak that you cant produce one example? Please tell me that is not so. Not only that but you don’t even know what a prayer is. When Jesus went off by himself to pray….what did he do? He talked to God. There is your Biblical definition of prayer. When Hezekiah laid on his death bed and prayed….what did he do? He talked to God. Matt 6:9f is a beautiful definition of prayer. In Matt 26:39 what was Jesus doing on his knees….talking to God. see how I am using the Bible and letting the Bible define what a prayer is. I’m sorry you don’t know what prayer is. Now why don’t you use the Bible and let it define what “calling on the name of the Lord” is. We find that phrase 3 or 4 times in the New Testament, surely you can use those to prove your point.

 

[Cnkw3]

Calling on the name of the Lord. Does it refer to prayer in acts 9?
But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Acts 9:21
Saul persecuted the early church, you know, the one we read about in acts 2 and 3. (In Jerusalem) Did any of these people say a prayer for salvation? They were told to call on the name of the lord for salvation. Ac 2:21. Then when they asked how to do that what did Peter say? Pray! NO! He told believers to repent and be baptized to have their sins removed. Is there even a prayer in all of Acts 2? Yes…in verse 42. They continued in prayer AFTER salvation. AFTER baptism. AFTER they had obeyed the gospel. Not before.
This is another example of letting the Bible define what it means and not some man making up his own definition of what he thinks it means.
For those of you that don’t know what a prayer is I am deeply sorry.

 

[Free]

He talked to God. There is your Biblical definition of prayer.

Finally! Given that you have previously stated that "To call upon the name of the lord is to ask Jesus to save you according to his plan or based on his conditions," is "calling on the name of the Lord" talking to God? And if so, isn't that prayer, by the definition you have provided?

 

[Cnkw3]

Finally! Given that you have previously stated that "To call upon the name of the lord is to ask Jesus to save you according to his plan or based on his conditions," is "calling on the name of the Lord" talking to God? And if so, isn't that prayer, by the definition you have provided?

HaHA. That’s funny. Slick , but funny. The passages I mentioned about prayer literally mentioned the word “prayer”. So, how did we know that it was referring to prayer? Because the Bible said so!!!!
Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the Lord, saying,
2 Kings 20:2
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Matthew 26:39
These people talked to God. That is prayer. How do I know that…because the Bible called it PRAYER. Not me. I didnt make anything up, I didnt add anything to the text I let the Bible tell me what it was.
Nowhere in Rom 10:13 is the word “PRAYER”. So when you say that it is referring to prayer that is your false definition because the Bible in the NT NEVER refers to “calling on the name of the lord” as prayer. I have asked you to show it to me. Now that I have proven what a Biblical definition of prayer is it is your turn.
Show me where the BIBLE defines “calling on the name of the Lord” as PRAYER.

 

[Cnkw3]

is "calling on the name of the Lord" talking to God?

No! The NT never says it Is. If you can prove me different then show it.
“calling on the name of the Lord” is being obedient to his plan for salvation. You are submitting to his authority. That’s what doing something “in his name” means. It means you recognize that God has the authority and power to tell you what to do and its up to you to do it. You don’t “pray” out to him. You just do what he says! THAT IS FAITH!