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SputnikBoy
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mutzrein said:John the Baptist said:mutzrein said:SputnikBoy said:Are we under the law of the land? Not until we break it. Then that incurs a penalty. Do we carry around a list of the laws of the land? Nope. The majority are 'written in our hearts' if you like. Does this mean that we're free to break any of them? Yes. But, as said, it will incur a penalty. Did Jesus take our sins on Himself in order that we have the freedom to break the law without penalty if we choose? I'm just asking.
Equating the law of the land with anything here is nonsense. Whether you break it or not you are still under it. You may not agree with it but by virtue of the fact that you abide in a certain place, you are under the law of that place.
Now even if Jesus did not make a way for me to be God's son I would not be under the law. I am not a Jew. And since Christ has made a way for me, I am still not under the law. But since his Spirit does dwell within me I fulfil the commands of God by the same Spirit - not because a law is written, forbidding me to break it.
John here: Just two questions for your above 'post'.
You are not a spiritual Jew? Romans 2:28-29 K.J. says that 'But he is a Jew..'!
And in the above paragraph you say that you have His Spirit within me.. I fulfil the commands of God by His Spirit? I am asking what is the motive that moves you to Obey the Holy Spirit? Acts 5:32 surely is conditional & Romans 8:14 surely is not forcing oneself is it?
I am not questioning the posters integrity! Just would like clarity of the two questions? To me it seems to be flawed when measured by the Holy Spirit's Inspiration Himself?
1. Outside of Christ we would only be talking about the law given to the Jews and since I am not a Jew I would not be subject to it. But I am in Christ and therefore a can say with Paul that the law is written on my heart. I am not circumcised outwardly but of the heart. The law is fulfilled by the Spirit, not by the written code.
This has always been the case, mutz. Much of the NT is NOT at odds with the OT, contrary to popular opinion. "I will put my law in their minds and write it in their hearts (Jeremiah 31:33-34)" has always been God's intent for the law. And yet, you're making a 'Paul' thing out of it. The same can be said for 'grace'. Many think that being 'saved by grace' is a NT concept. It isn't. NO ONE was ever saved by keeping the letter of the law. They were saved by God's grace. Keeping the spirit of the law was a consequence of having accepted God's gift of grace.
mutzrein said:2. I don't understand what you mean by asking what the motive is that moves me to obey the Holy Spirit. I don't have a motive. Since I am born of the Spirit, I do by nature the things that bring forth fruit of that same Spirit.
So what seems flawed to you?
This was a response given to JtB. 'Motivation', however, seems to be a dirty word to many Christians. It seems to imply 'works' and 'works' by definition is accursed by the modern Christian Church. And yet, we're told by Paul (the 'God' of many present-day Christians) that faith without works is dead. So, works (good works) are an essential part of the Christian life-style. Whether you do good works by nature or are somehow spiritually 'motivated' to do good works is a silly argument. It still amounts to following the commands of God (the perfect law of liberty) that we are to continue to do (James 1:25).
As I've said more times than I care to count ...unless one adheres to commands 1-4, how can they possibly be any different from the millions of others in this world who don't know God but pretty well keep commands 5-10 'by nature'?