Bible Study Are Believers Under the Law?

[gingercat]

I don't see "if you love me keep my commandments".
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Zicali,

You did it again! listed up bunch of excuses;

John l4: 15 "If you love me you will obey what I command."

Matt 19:17 "...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

I am from Okinawa Japan, and I speak Japanese. :D

 

[xicali]

Bunch of excuses

I don't see "if you love me keep my commandments".
-------------------------------------------------

Zicali,

You did it again! listed up bunch of excuses;

John l4: 15 "If you love me you will obey what I command."

Matt 19:17 "...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

I am from Okinawa Japan, and I speak Japanese. :D

OK. Gingercat it seems to me that you think that the new testament starts on matthew and ends in the revelation of st. john.

But the fact is that the new covenant started and ended with the blood on the cross. Jesus of Nazareth and his contemporaries where under Law so he had to teach it like no body had and he alone kept it to the "t".

And he took it away so that we as believers could receive a new position in Christ for the Law was a condition to burden Israel and the house of Judah.

The Gentile has received a new heart and a new spirit whereas a remanent of beloved Jews have received this gift too.

God wants to incite the Jew to jealousy with a new covenant that the Gentile readily receives it and it is of faith...God says it ...Just receive it, this is the spirit of faith.

Well here is a new thread I started on an accursed covenant

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21897

Well see you around I will let you rest from my postings :D
and thank you for your personal vio.

You are Blessed

xicali

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[John the Baptist]

Re: ministers of the new testament

Hi Gingercat and SputnikBoy...
Guys this is my understanding about not being under the Law of the commandments. ;-)

We are declared to be epistles of Christ. Written with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone.

Under the new and better, and easier way we are able ministers of the new testament not of the letter [Which are Written in tables of stone], but of the spirit for the letter [Written in tables of stone ] kills, but the spirit [Under the new testament] gives life.

Now if the ministration of death [The Law, the 10 commandments], now under the new way is called a ministration of death] written and engraved in stones, it was glorious [past tense, no longer glorious], so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance which glory was to be done away [The glory of the commandments was to fade away].

Leaving the ministration of [grace] the spirit, to be more glorious.

The ministration of condemnation was glorious indeed but the ministration of righteousness [Under grace, new way, new testament, new ministration] now exceeds much more in glory.

In other words that which was made glorious has no glory now in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.


Further that which has been done away [no longer in effect], that glory is and it will be much more than that which remains.

Moses had a veil over his face that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished.

The believer’s minds were and are blinded still. The same veil remains when they study the Old Testament which veil will be taken away when they understand the real Christ, in the Apostle Paul.

2 Corinthians 3:2-18

This is what I understand about the law of the commandments or past ministration.

I don't think this is an excuse of my part, I mean not to practice that which is done away with...How can I practice that which does not exist?

Gigercat, Spute...Love you Guys!!!

********
John here: ??? Love you guys!!!
The simple & clear question has to do with the Eternal Covenant's first table of the Godhead's requirement, not the second phase of it only, does it not?! Revelation 22:8-9 & Exodus 32:15-16 We need to be careful with what we do to or with the only requirement of His Individual Writing, surely! Revelation 22:18-19!
Christ stated that.. "[IF] ye love [ME], Keep My Commamdments." Matthew 22:35-40 This is the 'whole' inclusive of the Eternal Gospel of the Doctrine of Christ, as John surely knew in 2 John 1:6-11! (You know, verse one?)
You don't know? :o Well then, read John's Word's of Inspiration in 1 John 2:3-8 for when the 'darkness' is past for the Born Again one who have the hebrews 10:15-16 'Epistle of Christ' recreated in their mind & hearts!! :fadein:
********

You are Blessed

xicali

 

[SputnikBoy]

Saying Chirstians must keep the Law is like saying an American who moves to Australia and becomes an Australian citizen must still keep American Law. It is absurd.

No one MUST keep the law. There are those, however, who CHOOSE to do so. There are 'universal laws' by which all nations are bound. Those are the Ten Commandments.

Christians do not follow the Law; Christians follow Christ.

. . .who was the fullfillment of the law. Jesus had no problem keeping the law. He personified the law. Nor should we desire to do anything other than emulate Jesus..

Moreover, the "commands" of 1 John, and the like, are not the 10 Commandments. All one needs to do is read the context to discover this.

To disregard the very obvious principles contained within the Ten Commandments is ludicrous. Why would you even WANT to?

The confusion is not surprising though. Paul couldn't seem to get this idea through the heads of many Jewish Christians of his day either.

Here we have Paul being exalted above Jesus yet again.

 

[Georges]

The disciples post resurrection followed and obeyed Christ by observing Mosaic Law.....


Someone please post the verse where Christ said the the Law would be abolished when he was crucified.....Seems the Disciples didn't get that message....The only one who did was Paul......

 

[Georges]

The disciples post resurrection followed and obeyed Christ by observing Mosaic Law.....


Someone please post the verse where Christ said the the Law would be abolished when he was crucified or hinted at.....Seems the Disciples didn't get that message....The only one who did was Paul......

 

[SputnikBoy]

The disciples post resurrection followed and obeyed Christ by observing Mosaic Law.....


Someone please post the verse where Christ said the the Law would be abolished when he was crucified or hinted at.....Seems the Disciples didn't get that message....The only one who did was Paul......

On the contrary, Jesus said that He had NOT come to abolish the law. All of the Pauline Christians ignore those words of Jesus in favor of Paul. It's quite ap(Paul)ling really.

 

[Relic]

The disciples post resurrection followed and obeyed Christ by observing Mosaic Law.....


Someone please post the verse where Christ said the the Law would be abolished when he was crucified or hinted at.....Seems the Disciples didn't get that message....The only one who did was Paul......

On the contrary, Jesus said that He had NOT come to abolish the law. All of the Pauline Christians ignore those words of Jesus in favor of Paul. It's quite ap(Paul)ling really.

Actually, it is the iterpretation of Paul's writing that many people are not getting. Paul never said to ignore the law, but that in his writings the laws were proven to be established.

.

 

[John the Baptist]

The disciples post resurrection followed and obeyed Christ by observing Mosaic Law.....


Someone please post the verse where Christ said the the Law would be abolished when he was crucified.....Seems the Disciples didn't get that message....The only one who did was Paul......

_______

John here:
It seems that some need to go back to Hebrews 5:11-14 for a 'inspired' penman's point of view??

We hear that we are now under Grace. Great, we are, Praise be to our Master! First comes though, that we are required to be Born Again. Now we are Under Grace, Saving Grace! We are New Creatures..Reborn, but can we still sin?? Under Grace?? If we are under Grace from here on, do we now need our Hebrews 9:11-14's High Priest?

"But Christ being come an High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building, Neither by the blood of goats and caves, but by His own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. ... (notice!) purge your conscience from dead works to serve a living God?"

So now we are when Born Again, and under Grace! That makes the 'conscience' at peace with the mind, huh? What is Christ now doing in verse 7? But into the second went the High Priest (earthly) alone once every year ... The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing. Which was a figure of the true ... Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

Did you get all of this? These laws all prefigured Christ 'Confirmation', death on the cross and our ever living High Priest. now Grace?? No more Law?? And does it say that the law of God was voided out here? Or the above that prefigured the true? The Laws that Moses penned which stood in 'washings', 'carnal ordinances' until the Galatians 3:19 'Promise' was confirmed? "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, til the seed should come to whom the promise was made..."

Well now, Christ came, and we are under Grace. This law was added because of sin. Yet there would be no sin in heaven, (satan) or Adam on earth without the Eternal Covenant! (Hebrews 13:20) "Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4 So, it is not hard for any Born Again Christian to see that this ten Commandment Eternal Covenant is not these laws to the left of the cross of Christ, 'carnal ordinances, imposed upon them until the reformation', or the time that Christ became our High Priest. These were all the Law of Moses of Deuteronomy 31:9, Deuteronomy 31:24-25. that were placed in the side of the Ark of God, not inside of it where the Ten Commandments were kept.

The Ark of God??
Christ's death sent Him where, as our High Priest?? The Vail of the earthly Temple was rent from top to bottom by an unseen hand, making the way into the Most Holy Place where the Ark of the Eternal Covenant of God is at the Present time! Notice Hebrews 9:3 "And after the second Vail, which is called the Holiest of all, which had ... the Ark of the Covenant ... and the tables of the Covenant" (Moses laws remember were in the [side] of the Ark, not inside. Yet, take note of this verse in Revelation 11:18-19)
".. and the time of the dead, that should be judged, and should have reward, ... ***And the Temple of God was *IN HEAVEN and there was SEEN THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT."

Under Grace? Are you in need of Christ our High Priest? Why? Do you sin?? We see that it is not possible to sin without a law! 1 John 3:4
So if one sins & is under Grace, then there is still a Eternal Covenant Law (ten Commandments) and there is still Grace if one asks for forgiveness of your sin right?? Do we believe in our Lords Prayer?? Now, when I sin, am I still under Grace without asking for forgiveness?
If I say yes, am I telling the Truth that I am under Grace while not asking for forgiveness, or have I just knowingly broken the Commandment of lying? Still under Grace you say?? If so, why have a High Priest Savior in the first place to ask forgiveness of 'our sins'? (again, no law, no sin)

OK: Sin of ignorance & sin of open knowledge. All transgression of the Eternal Covenant law is still sin! The Covenant in heaven is what Christ's work is pertaining to, for us. When we sin, we are right back condemned under the Eternal Covenant of God. We then ask for forgiveness of our sins. And then we are again forgiven. But notice that we Born Again ones, are to now said to be 'Led' by the Holy Ghost in Romans 8:14. Now what are we being led to do? The Royal Eternal Covenant of the Godhead is perfect, converting the soul! It has no sin, it is the very 'Epistle' or Christ! 2 Corinthians 3:3 (perfect-flawless) The Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth, that is the Covenant of God. See Christ's work of Isaiah 42:21.

For any to be led otherwise?? Is to revolt! It Grieves & it Quenches the one leading us! In time He will quite His 'Striving' with us! See Acts 9:5 with Saul 'it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks' and Genesis 6:3 . There comes a time that we just will not be led, and God quits striving with us. See Revelation 3:16-17 . Well, back in the Holy place of Grace, while we are in obedience, we see in Hebrews 10:23 that it is not yet a done deal of once under Grace always under Grace. "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering.." And Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the Truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, But a certain fearful looking for of the judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Under Grace you still say? When one knows that they are 'openly sinning "Willfully" the verse says? To say that I am under Grace while "willfully" sinning is bringing me right into Bondage of the breaking of the Eternal Covenant Law of God! Willfully, openly! Not only doing the lawbreaking, but with even being an PARTAKER of any sin. Revelation 18:4. Any known breaking of the Covenant of God, the 7th day Sabbath 'Openly' included! James 2:8-12. And it states that this Royal Law will be our standard in Judgement to see if our profession matches our character.

In closing: Born Again? Under Grace. Perfect at this point! Romans 8:1. The Positives of Hebrews 6:1-5! Then comes 'willful' dis/obedience, openly. What are we then [knowingly] doing?? All of us that are Born Again know for sure what we are doing when the Holy Spirit leads us and we go against His Leading! Romaqns 8:14 Remember forum, that these ones have the Covenant written in their 'minds'! See Hebrews 10:16.
(and now these ones have a real problem! Genesis 6:3, Ephesians 4:30, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-20)
Well, under Grace can change very quickly to being under Bondage, when 'willfully done'. Then notice what the ex/under Grace one knowingly has done? Hebrews 6:6 says: "... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an [open] shame."

Lord, I love you, but I do not love your Eternal Covenant Epistle! Under Grace still? Hardly! See Obadiah 1:16 for the ones seen above.

 

[gingercat]

On the contrary, Jesus said that He had NOT come to abolish the law. All of the Pauline Christians ignore those words of Jesus in favor of Paul. It's quite ap(Paul)ling really.

Spute,

Remember He upgraded some of the practices of OT times like eye for eye and tooth for tooth?

Paul's teachings come from Jesus. He is teaching us in a more detailed way. What Jesus revealed in NT is not all of His teachings. He gave a lot in details to His disciples IMHO.

 

[John the Baptist]

On the contrary, Jesus said that He had NOT come to abolish the law. All of the Pauline Christians ignore those words of Jesus in favor of Paul. It's quite ap(Paul)ling really.

Spute,

Remember He upgraded some of the practices of OT times like eye for eye and tooth for tooth?

Paul's teachings come from Jesus. He is teaching us in a more detailed way. What Jesus revealed in NT is not all of His teachings. He gave a lot in details to His disciples IMHO.

******
Upgraded?? Perhaps, but I like the Isaiah 42:21 verse of 'magnified' best. But I know what you mean. :fadein:

But most of these birds here just flat out are in rebellion with the Eternal Covenant (Hebrews 13:20) of the Godhead. How do they differ from the Jews? Read the K.J. in Christs own Words in Matthew 23:3. At least the Jews made a True confession in their Virgin doctrines, even if both end up with a closed door of probation. Matthew 23:38 & Revelation 17:5 = Daniel 7:25.

---John