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Are Calamities Judgment from God?

Mysteryman said:
But, lets not start believing that a natural disater is just that -- "natural". That would be taking God out of the scenario.

God always play a part, one way or another.
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Good point, Mystery. While I think a great many natural disasters may be "natural" I also believe God allows every one of them. That doesn't necessarily imply his active judgment but a very old curse. If we distance ourselves from God then there's nothing to protect us from this universe of terrible and awe-inspiring power. We'll die the same as any animal would. That's not to say that God doesn't look out for the animals either. We're all his creation, but again... if you choose the cursed over the Creator then you're going to reap the consequences of your actions and that doesn't really have to have anything to do with active judgment.
 
I believe that God has designed the earth where the forces of nature behave according to His prescibed design. That is, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc, occur as certain pressures or temperatures are relieved.

The "ring of fire" around the Pacific Ocean, where the preponderance of earthquakes occur, has been known for many years, yet mankind continues to live in those places. When hundreds or thousands are killed in those areas due to earthquakes or sunamis, can God be to blame?

That is not to say that God is not Sovereign, or can be surprised when the forces of nature cause a major calamity upon mankind.

As for Judgments in the OT, particularly upon Israel, a careful study will show that judgments came only after ample warnings. They were meant to cause a sinful idolatrous Israel to repent of their wickedness.
It all happened for a reason.

I cannot believe that modern calamities are judgments from God.
 
A large problem with believing that things that happen to people are " natural" or " chance" is that it completely takes out all reason to be changed by what happened and to repent and turn to God.

When a person believes something " is just the way it is " then there is no reason to turn to God and repent and believe and serve him because they do not beleive God had any part of it.

The doctrines that teach that God didnt do it give people a way to take God out of their minds, take convictions off of their hearts and keep living how they want to live and think that it has nothing to do with what is befalling them.-

I believe this is the attitude we see in the last days and a great reason why we see this so many times in revelation

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

I have seen people do this: In one breath deny that the " natural disaster" was from God because of sin- and in the next curse God because he "didnt stop it".
 
By reading the above post, one is left to believe a person can turn to the Lord whenever they choose. I don't necessarily believe that to be true. People will not repent unless repentance is laid upon their hearts.

Until one truly attempts to understand the two wills of the Lord, they will almost always either blame God or say He did it for a reason. The truth is though, HE is capable of both causing things to happen and allowing things to happen and in any particular case(s) use it to and for HIS glory.

You see Ryes, I am one of those who will be the first to say something was a "natural disaster" and not once ever curse the LORD for not stopping it. The Lord is best served when we, HIS children, step in and show the love and mercy of the LORD and by telling them that God is in their midst even in their time of trials.

People just won't turn to the LORD unless their pointed in the right direction, just as you and I were when we were saved.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. :amen
 
happyjoy said:
Earthquakes happen every day somewhere in this world. The U.S. government records them all. Now one can even put the info into google maps and see real time earthquake updates.

God is not causing these earthquakes. They are just a natural result of the earths processes. You can read about it as the same government site.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ ... ex.php#csv
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While that is true that does not mean that God can't or doesn't cause earthquakes through the natural processes.
 
happyjoy that's a contradiction. you ask and harp on us creationist to believe that god uses natural processes to create and that natural selection is such, yet when we say that he can use them, you say not so! :shrug

which is it?
 
Free said:
happyjoy said:
Earthquakes happen every day somewhere in this world. The U.S. government records them all. Now one can even put the info into google maps and see real time earthquake updates.

God is not causing these earthquakes. They are just a natural result of the earths processes. You can read about it as the same government site.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ ... ex.php#csv
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While that is true that does not mean that God can't or doesn't cause earthquakes through the natural processes.
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Well only in that God is the original cause of everything. Other than that no. It is just childish superstitions thinking to believe that God is busy causing the weather second by second.
 
happyjoy said:
Free said:
happyjoy said:
Earthquakes happen every day somewhere in this world. The U.S. government records them all. Now one can even put the info into google maps and see real time earthquake updates.

God is not causing these earthquakes. They are just a natural result of the earths processes. You can read about it as the same government site.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ ... ex.php#csv
Click to expand...
While that is true that does not mean that God can't or doesn't cause earthquakes through the natural processes.
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Well only in that God is the original cause of everything. Other than that no. It is just childish superstitions thinking to believe that God is busy causing the weather second by second.
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I don't think anyone has said that that is the case.

To clarify: It is very possible and likely that God has at times used natural processes to cause earthquakes or other natural disasters as a means of punishment. But no one is saying that every single such event is caused by God or that he is "busy causing the weather second by second."
 
Free said:
To clarify: It is very possible and likely that God has at times used natural processes to cause earthquakes or other natural disasters as a means of punishment. But no one is saying that every single such event is caused by God or that he is "busy causing the weather second by second."
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How can one tell when it is God that made the earthquake and not just plate tectonics?

Also, how can one tell what God is angry about?
 
happyjoy said:
Free said:
To clarify: It is very possible and likely that God has at times used natural processes to cause earthquakes or other natural disasters as a means of punishment. But no one is saying that every single such event is caused by God or that he is "busy causing the weather second by second."
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How can one tell when it is God that made the earthquake and not just plate tectonics?
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One can't unless there has been a specific prophecy about such an event, which is why people like Pat Robertson need to keep their mouths closed.

happyjoy said:
Also, how can one tell what God is angry about?
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Read the Bible and see what displeases him.
 
jasoncran said:
ok, hmm i will debate that comment in another thread on evolution if i feel up to it again.
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You fail to see that the world works in natural predictable ways. Evolution is true, and God doesn't cause the weather when angry.
 
if he is uses it, then one could say the deaths of all are simply God cleansing the gene pool. ie sickness, and so on that ensues from the storms

we are subjected to the same forces of evolution that's all, and i'm taking theistic evolution to a logical conclusion. are we not animals.

if i build a car via a process and it kills some to due to poor design am i not liable for that. ie toyota.

c.a.d.s is designed on the the genetic alogarithim which supports evolution.
 
I don't know if they are God's judgment, but after hurricane Katrina....

The Mississippi coast full of casinos, New Orleans full of sin, paganism, sexual immorality, excessive intoxication, voodoo.

Was God smiting the unGodliness? I have no idea, but I sure wouldn't move to Las Vegas.
 
jasoncran said:
if he is uses it, then one could say the deaths of all are simply God cleansing the gene pool. ie sickness, and so on that ensues from the storms

we are subjected to the same forces of evolution that's all, and i'm taking theistic evolution to a logical conclusion. are we not animals.

if i build a car via a process and it kills some to due to poor design am i not liable for that. ie toyota.

c.a.d.s is designed on the the genetic alogarithim which supports evolution.
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I understand what you are saying Jason. I just reject your logic. You say that evolution can't be true because you can't believe the God would be so cruel to invent natural selection, but you can believe in a God who caused miracle magical world wide flood killing virtually every living thing. Babies, animals etc all killed.
 
no.i'm consistent. as those men have sinned god had to judge that.

you want a diestic god of sorts , one that creates by your logic, yet doesnt judge sin.
and isnt the standard bearer. the God of convience.

God is neither cruel nor unjust. we are.
 
jasoncran said:
no.i'm consistent. as those men have sinned god had to judge that.
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So God judged that babies, young children, animals, all had to die because some people sinned too much? But natural selection is just too cruel? That is flawed logic.
 
happyjoy said:
So God judged that babies, young children, animals, all had to die because some people sinned too much? But natural selection is just too cruel? That is flawed logic.
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Were there babies, young children, and animals who died in Sodom and Gomorrah?
Were there babies, young children, and animals who died in the flood?
 
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