Are Children born damned or saved?

[GodsGrace]

Some will refer to Psalm 51:5 and state that children are born lost and damned...
Does this mean that if they die, they go to hell?

Some claim that children are born innocent and will go to heaven if they die.

Could you state what YOU believe and also why?

I believe a person is born NOT GUILTY.
This does not mean he is innocent because all men are born with the effects of Adam's sin.
I believe that we reach an age when we become responsible for our own individual sins.

Only at that time, do we become GUILTY of our personal sins.

 

[WIP]

I don't give much thought to either answer. I simply believe it is best left up to God so I don't bog myself down with this question.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't give much thought to either answer. I simply believe it is best left up to God so I don't bog myself down with this question.

The question was being discussed in another thread and was really derailing it.

I think it's something important to ponder.
There may be a reason...maybe a child is sick, or even had died.

It's also important for doctrinal reasons:
Are we responsible for Adam's sin?
Or are we responsible only for our sins?

Do you think we're guilty of Adam's sin or do you
think we only suffer the consequences of it?
And what are those consequences?

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Personally, as far as small children, I do believe that they would go to Heaven if they were to pass away. I would think that if a child is not yet old enough to be capable of making a decision for Christ that they would go to Heaven. At some point, a child will grow older and eventually be able to make that decision for themselves, but when is that age of being responsible for their own salvation? We don't know. It's one of those things that God knows and we can take peace in knowing that He's a true and righteous judge.

 

[WIP]

The question was being discussed in another thread and was really derailing it.

I think it's something important to ponder.
There may be a reason...maybe a child is sick, or even had died.

It's also important for doctrinal reasons:
Are we responsible for Adam's sin?
Or are we responsible only for our sins?

Do you think we're guilty of Adam's sin or do you
think we only suffer the consequences of it?
And what are those consequences?

I think we all have the same propensity for sin. It's in our nature. It is only through Jesus we can be saved.

The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3 NKJV

The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Psalm 14:2-3 NKJV

Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Ecclisiastes 7:20 NKJV

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
Romans 3:9-12 NKJV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

Personally, as far as small children, I do believe that they would go to Heaven if they were to pass away. I would think that if a child is not yet old enough to be capable of making a decision for Christ that they would go to Heaven. At some point, a child will grow older and eventually be able to make that decision for themselves, but when is that age of being responsible for their own salvation? We don't know. It's one of those things that God knows and we can take peace in knowing that He's a true and righteous judge.

Agreed 100%

If God is a just God,,,then He will give to each what they deserve.
How would a child deserve hell if he doesn't even know what sin is?
And I've taught our faith to kids,,,so, trust me, some of them have no
idea that they are even sinning. Some will say that they have never sinned.
So you're right on.

 

[JLB]

Some will refer to Psalm 51:5 and state that children are born lost and damned...
Does this mean that if they die, they go to hell?

Some claim that children are born innocent and will go to heaven if they die.

Could you state what YOU believe and also why?

I believe a person is born NOT GUILTY.
This does not mean he is innocent because all men are born with the effects of Adam's sin.
I believe that we reach an age when we become responsible for our own individual sins.

Only at that time, do we become GUILTY of our personal sins.

“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3-4

• unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven

Jesus gives us some insight as to how He views little children, and their standing with God. We are instructed by Him that in order for a person to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be converted; change course, turn, turn around, and become as little children. Clear enough.

If a person hopes to enter the kingdom of heaven, they must be of they same standing before God as little children.

This tells me little children are innocent before God.


I asked this question of another poster, concerning this subject.


What sin is a 6 month old child capable of committing?


Idolatry?
Taking the name of the Lord in vain?
Dishonoring father or mother?
Murder?
Adultery?
Stealing?
Lying?
Coveting their neighbors belongings?



I believe “little children” don’t know good from evil, and are innocent of committing sin until the Lord deems them as no longer “little children”, whatever that age is.


At the same time, I believe we inherit a sin nature, a physical body that is tainted with sin (sin nature) which will ultimately die, and be resurrected and be as Jesus’s body is.


Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19


As born again Christians, who have the life of Jesus Christ within us, empowered by the Spirit, we still have a physical body that contains sin, and a desire to gratify the lustful desires of sin. We overcome these desires to sin, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that we do not do the deeds that our flesh desires to do.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Little children have no concept of these things.






JLB

 

[JLB]

I think we all have the same propensity for sin. It's in our nature. It is only through Jesus we can be saved.

I agree.

 

[JLB]

The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3 NKJV

The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent;
They are like the deaf cobra that stops its ear,
Psalm 58:3-4


Do you believe David is speaking literally here?


Do you believe a child who just came out of the womb has poison in them like a snake?



JLB

 

[JLB]

The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Psalm 14:2-3 NKJV

The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one. Psalm 14:1-3



The context is about the fool who says their is no God.

An atheist.

They are a law unto themselves, and are corrupt.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Ecclisiastes 7:20 NKJV

I think we all agree, that Jesus was the only One who never sinned.





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I think we all have the same propensity for sin. It's in our nature. It is only through Jesus we can be saved.

The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3 NKJV

The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Psalm 14:2-3 NKJV

Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Ecclisiastes 7:20 NKJV

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
Romans 3:9-12 NKJV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23 NKJV

So are you saying babies/children are lost because they cannot accept Jesus as Savior?

 

[GodsGrace]

“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3-4

• unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven

Jesus gives us some insight as to how He views little children, and their standing with God. We are instructed by Him that in order for a person to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be converted; change course, turn, turn around, and become as little children. Clear enough.

If a person hopes to enter the kingdom of heaven, they must be of they same standing before God as little children.

This tells me little children are innocent before God.


I asked this question of another poster, concerning this subject.


What sin is a 6 month old child capable of committing?


Idolatry?
Taking the name of the Lord in vain?
Dishonoring father or mother?
Murder?
Adultery?
Stealing?
Lying?
Coveting their neighbors belongings?



I believe “little children” don’t know good from evil, and are innocent of committing sin until the Lord deems them as no longer “little children”, whatever that age is.


At the same time, I believe we inherit a sin nature, a physical body that is tainted with sin (sin nature) which will ultimately die, and be resurrected and be as Jesus’s body is.


Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19


As born again Christians, who have the life of Jesus Christ within us, empowered by the Spirit, we still have a physical body that contains sin, and a desire to gratify the lustful desires of sin. We overcome these desires to sin, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that we do not do the deeds that our flesh desires to do.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Little children have no concept of these things.






JLB

Agreed on everything.

Babies are born with the sin nature.
The sin nature is an EFFECT of the Original Sin that Adam committed, which was disobedience to God...the first sin against God.

They, however, and as you've said, are not guilty of any personal sins...and we are held responsible ONLY for our personal sins.


2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

As you've stated..children know nothing of good or evil ... they know, but not in a sense that God would hold them responsible because they don't make the connection between their doing something bad and how it would affect their relationship with God.
Children and not capable of conceptualizing ideas....

When the concept of God and sin become understood...this would be the age at which they become responsible for their
personal sins.

 

[Butch5]

Some will refer to Psalm 51:5 and state that children are born lost and damned...
Does this mean that if they die, they go to hell?

Some claim that children are born innocent and will go to heaven if they die.

Could you state what YOU believe and also why?

I believe a person is born NOT GUILTY.
This does not mean he is innocent because all men are born with the effects of Adam's sin.
I believe that we reach an age when we become responsible for our own individual sins.

Only at that time, do we become GUILTY of our personal sins.

Paul said, where there is no law sin is not accounted. He said of himself, that he was alive once without the Law, but when the Law came he died, became guilty. Children are born without knowledge. They cannot be judged for what they do not know. That would be unjust and we know that God is just.

 

[WIP]

So are you saying babies/children are lost because they cannot accept Jesus as Savior?

I don't think it matters what I think. What matters is what God thinks. I suppose we all want to have that warm fuzzy feeling about it but in the end, God knows and He is in control.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think it matters what I think. What matters is what God thinks. I suppose we all want to have that warm fuzzy feeling about it but in the end, God knows and He is in control.

I can respect that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul said, where there is no law sin is not accounted. He said of himself, that he was alive once without the Law, but when the Law came he died, became guilty. Children are born without knowledge. They cannot be judged for what they do not know. That would be unjust and we know that God is just.

Amen brother.

 

[JLB]

Babies are born with the sin nature.
The sin nature is an EFFECT of the Original Sin that Adam committed, which was disobedience to God...the first sin against God.

They, however, and as you've said, are not guilty of any personal sins...and we are held responsible ONLY for our personal sins.

Amen.





JLB

 

[stovebolts]

ome will refer to Psalm 51:5 and state that children are born lost and damned...
Does this mean that if they die, they go to hell?

I say those that use Psalm 51 to support that doctrine pull Psalm 51 grossly out of context. In my view, They abolish Psalm 51.

 

[Butch5]

I say those that use Psalm 51 to support that doctrine pull Psalm 51 grossly out of context. In my view, They abolish Psalm 51.

I agree. It's grossly out of context. David said he was conceived in iniquity. That means one or both of his parents sinned in his conception. Someone who is the product of an adulterous parent could say the same thing. It says nothing whatsoever about David being a sinner. I find this all too often, people read what they want to see rather than critically thinking things through. This passage has nothing to do with children being born sinners or the idea of original sin