Are Children born damned or saved?

[Serving Zion]

I agree. It's grossly out of context. David said he was conceived in iniquity. That means one or both of his parents sinned in his conception. Someone who is the product of an adulterous parent could say the same thing. It says nothing whatsoever about David being a sinner. I find this all too often, people read what they want to see rather than critically thinking things through. This passage has nothing to do with children being born sinners or the idea of original sin

That's only if you read the right translation

 

[Serving Zion]

I believe a person is born NOT GUILTY.
This does not mean he is innocent

That is a cognitive dissonance and it is due to the doctrinal views that puts the curse of Adam on the offspring by way of inheritance. When you come to see that the sin comes in from outside, then you understand why Jesus says "the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy". The battle is through Word because it is through words that the spirit is made known.

The sin of Adam took hold in the world because he is the one who allowed it to prevail over him instead of standing up to it. It is because the mind of the sinner does whatever it can to justify it's sin, it reaches for deception (the father of lies). If they had done what was plainly right, obeying God, they would not have to hide from the truth, and that's what we see in children. They just do whatever they think is ok and all of a sudden they are getting in trouble with grownups because the grown up doesn't know that they have done an innocent thing wrong. It is the way of the grown ups that corrupts and teaches the children to give way to the evil sinful ways, and because children are small and obedient, they admire grown ups and are easily influenced, they comply and take on the image of their fallen teachers.

That's why they go off the rails as soon as the opportunity comes: because they've been broken by the world. Romans 12:2 tells us to not be conformed to the world's patterns, but instead to be transformed by the renewing of the mind - to become again as the person we were when we were new. The "sin nature" isn't a thing that is natural to humans, but is a natural way that humans respond to a sinful world. Take those same sinners, put them in a holy environment, their behaviour becomes holy too. It is a shame that only few find the narrow path leading to life.

 

[Butch5]

That's only if you read the right translation

Can you elaborate?

 

[EvolvingChristian]

I don't give much thought to either answer. I simply believe it is best left up to God so I don't bog myself down with this question.

That is your typical response. Serious question. Why respond at all? It may not be of interest to you but, it is obviously of interest to the OP and very well may of interest to others. Besides, this is a DISCUSSION forum, correct? So why not ENGENDER discussion?

 

[EvolvingChristian]

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23 NKJV

Is that verse supposed to taken literally as in ALL or are we supposed to use common sense and recognize that it's referring to the vast majority of souls that were born and reached an age of responsibility? I presume it's the latter. After all, what "sin" has a newborn infant committed?

 

[EvolvingChristian]

Do you believe a child who just came out of the womb has poison in them like a snake?

It sounds like some are born as "bad seeds".

 

[EvolvingChristian]

An atheist. They are a law unto themselves, and are corrupt.

We are ALL corrupt to some degree. I have met atheists that are more Christ-like than many believers.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

I think we all agree, that Jesus was the only One who never sinned.

Of those who reached an age of knowing right from wrong, yes. Many have and do die and who never knew such concepts.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

I don't think it matters what I think.

I don't mean to sound crass, my brother, but that point is not really in dispute.

I believe that we have an inherent knowledge of God and what is right and what is wrong. Remember, we were created in "their" image. When another asks you what YOU think, I encourage you to give it some consideration. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will speak to you and help you to help another to better understand.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

Could you state what YOU believe and also why?

My PERSONAL belief is that few if ANY souls, regardless of their age at death, are left unsaved by Jesus.

I think a lot of Christians read into verses statements that people are DEFINITELY going to Hell when such verses don't necessarily exactly make that claim.

Take Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

That verse is speaking to the vast majority of humanity. Some interpret this to mean that the vast majority are going to Hell. However, the verse doesn't explicitly make that statement. In plain English, it essentially says that most of us are lost sheep that go down the wrong path.

My belief is that Jesus is waiting on the other side and when such souls cross over, he goes and gives them a hug and says "Welcome! You're lost. Come with me!"

Does that not seem the true nature of Christ?

I was watching a documentary on German death camps. It showed a video of corpses being thrown, one after the other, into huge piles that were going to be set ablaze in order to cremate them. You've probably seen such videos too. Now, can you imagine Jesus being the one tossing one soul after another into the inferno? Yea, me neither.

With all that said, I may be 100% wrong about EVERYTHING. I don't want to be accused of heresy. I'm simply sharing my belief based on everything that I have seen, heard, and learned about Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

I say those that use Psalm 51 to support that doctrine pull Psalm 51 grossly out of context. In my view, They abolish Psalm 51.

You also sent another post similar to the above to me, so I'll answer both here.

In the other post you mentioned something about Psalm 51 speaking to an intimate act.
I'm sorry, but I don't see this.

Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—


Psalm 51:5 NASB
5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalm 51:5 NIV
5Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

As we have established, I believe, we both agree that man is born tarnished from the sin of Adam....
let's call it the sin nature.

Romans 5:12 is certainly speaking about the sin nature that entered through one man's sin since he was the Federal Headship of all mankind. Physical death has spread to all of us and also spiritual death. This pysical and spiritual death is the "tarnish" that entered all of us....or, the sin nature that we are born with.

I can reconcile this to either version of Psalm 51:5.

In the NASB and other versions, it states that David was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin his mother conceived him.
He had stepbrothers (I believe it was brothers) clearly from a different father. Also, we know that his mother had an affair with a King or ruler. I do believe he is stating this here....that perhaps he was not the son of his father. So....he was conceived in sin. The tendency to sin...the sin nature, which his mother fell prey to.

In the NIV and other versions, it states that David was born a sinner...sinful at birth and sinful from the time his mother conceived him.
This also could be reconciled with Romans 5:12 because, again, it speaks to the sin nature we all inherited from Adam and with which
we are born.

I don't believe there is any incorrect doctrine here.

(from the Hebrew Text Analysis, it would seem that the translation of the NASB is correct)
source: https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/51-5.htm

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree. It's grossly out of context. David said he was conceived in iniquity. That means one or both of his parents sinned in his conception. Someone who is the product of an adulterous parent could say the same thing. It says nothing whatsoever about David being a sinner. I find this all too often, people read what they want to see rather than critically thinking things through. This passage has nothing to do with children being born sinners or the idea of original sin

I agree.
But some bible versions do state that he was born a sinner.
I just replied to this in post 31.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is a cognitive dissonance and it is due to the doctrinal views that puts the curse of Adam on the offspring by way of inheritance. When you come to see that the sin comes in from outside, then you understand why Jesus says "the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy". The battle is through Word because it is through words that the spirit is made known.

The sin of Adam took hold in the world because he is the one who allowed it to prevail over him instead of standing up to it. It is because the mind of the sinner does whatever it can to justify it's sin, it reaches for deception (the father of lies). If they had done what was plainly right, obeying God, they would not have to hide from the truth, and that's what we see in children. They just do whatever they think is ok and all of a sudden they are getting in trouble with grownups because the grown up doesn't know that they have done an innocent thing wrong. It is the way of the grown ups that corrupts and teaches the children to give way to the evil sinful ways, and because children are small and obedient, they admire grown ups and are easily influenced, they comply and take on the image of their fallen teachers.

That's why they go off the rails as soon as the opportunity comes: because they've been broken by the world. Romans 12:2 tells us to not be conformed to the world's patterns, but instead to be transformed by the renewing of the mind - to become again as the person we were when we were new. The "sin nature" isn't a thing that is natural to humans, but is a natural way that humans respond to a sinful world. Take those same sinners, put them in a holy environment, their behaviour becomes holy too. It is a shame that only few find the narrow path leading to life.

Are you saying that we sin because of external influence?
Please clarify.

The N.T. states that we sin from the heart...the heart is interior.
God says in Ezekiel that He will give us a new heart. Ezekiel 36:26
We need a new heart, an internal influence, to become once again in relationship with God.
Jesus said we need to be born again.

The transformation of our mind in Romans 12:1 happens because we are a new creature guided
by the Holy Spirit...the old has passed away. 2 Corinthians 5:17,,,and this when we become born again.

The sin nature could also be called the FLESH. The flesh is part of us....it's not apart and external to us.
We are to follow the spirit,,,not the flesh...both are part of us. Galatians 5:16

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the following which I highlighted above....here:
They just do whatever they think is ok and all of a sudden they are getting in trouble with grownups because the grown up doesn't know that they have done an innocent thing wrong. It is the way of the grown ups that corrupts and teaches the children to give way to the evil sinful ways, and because children are small and obedient, they admire grown ups and are easily influenced, they comply and take on the image of their fallen teachers.

Children are not little angels. They do require guidance.
But not being little angels does not mean they are sinners.
But what do you mean that grown ups corrupt the child?

 

[Serving Zion]

Can you elaborate?

I think most Evangelical or Traditional Western Christians would say they believe that children are born with inherited sin, and so because they are predisposed to view the scriptures in that light, they are inclined to read that King David is saying in Psalm 51:5 that he has been sinful from birth. In fact the NIV uses those exact words. But when we look at the original Hebrew words, just as you have shown, it says that the mother was in sin when she was conceiving him (in psychological terms it may be called "projection") and the way she brought him forth was in iniquity. So we read that he is begging for mercy from God on account of the fact that he has not had a fair chance in life.

So the NIV is one of the particularly worst at pitching that doctrine in its version. It is even more visible when you read the next verse. It's as though they really don't care what the scriptures say because they are just going to use the chance to teach their ideas of salvation with the authority that is assumed in the Word of God. It's actually quite a heretical thing to do, but they are certainly not the only ones who are doing it.

 

[Serving Zion]

Are you saying that we sin because of external influence?
Please clarify.

James explains in James 1:13-15 that it is the desire that entices us into sin, so without the desire to be led toward sin, there would be no sin coming into conception. That isn't to say that in a world without sin there would be no desires does it? There are desires that don't lead to sin. So the way the world forms us is the reason that we become prone to desiring things that lead to sin.

That's why I have used the expression "the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy" - referencing John 10:10 where Jesus is speaking as the eternal spirit of God having become flesh, and He says "I come in order that they may have life abundantly". That goes to show that as long as a person remains of the disposition to do that which Jesus pleads for them to do (consider 1 John 3:9), then sin cannot take hold of them. But the world teaches us through its fallen mindsets to begin exploring those desires that lead to sin, and in fact it even goes so far as to make us feel inferior and unnatural if we happen to not have a desire for it's own things.

So any time we are drawn out from that place of pure goodness and into a desire for sin, it is because some spirit has managed to gain our mind into its influence and out of the possession of the Holy Spirit. A person who is doing sin is not doing godliness, and a person who is doing godliness is not doing sin.

The N.T. states that we sin from the heart...the heart is interior.

Could you please provide the link to that reference? I know that in the Proverbs, Solomon warns his son to guard his heart because it is the origin of the issues of life (Proverbs 4:23) and also Psalms 24:3-4 says that it is the one who has a pure (undefiled) heart that can ascend on the mountain of Adonai - to stand (not be cast down) in His holy place. Isn't this the same reason that Jesus said of the little children "their angels are always seeing the face of my father in heaven"? (Matthew 18:10).

God says in Ezekiel that He will give us a new heart. Ezekiel 36:26
We need a new heart, an internal influence, to become once again in relationship with God.

Just as Romans 12:2 says: to be made new again.

Jesus said we need to be born again.

That's true, and Paul said "I was alive once apart from the law - but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died: the commandment meant for life brought death, because sin took advantage of it and deceived me, through it, killed me". He doesn't really mention having been resurrected (in fact he expressly denied it Philippians 3:11-13), and so it must be that he is speaking of a spiritual death and a spiritual life, just as Jesus has said to Nicodemus: "that which is born of flesh is flesh but that born of the spirit is spirit". So Paul says that he was alive in the spirit at a time before the commandment came, which would indicate that he is saying that his childhood wherein he had not learned the Torah, it was his time of being alive apart from the Torah (Romans 7:9).

The transformation of our mind in Romans 12:1 happens because we are a new creature guided
by the Holy Spirit...the old has passed away. 2 Corinthians 5:17,,,and this when we become born again.

It is true. The new creature is one who is innocent and without blame, even if they are found to be still lacking knowledge of how to do good. That is the defining feature of the sinners: that they do not have any valid explanation for the wrong they do and thus they are not entitled to mercy in the judgment. Children of course are entitled to mercy on account of their having not yet learned right from wrong, until the time comes when the desire brings them into disobedience to their conscience.

The sin nature could also be called the FLESH. The flesh is part of us....it's not apart and external to us.
We are to follow the spirit,,,not the flesh...both are part of us. Galatians 5:16

The flesh nature is not synonymous with the sin nature. I do observe that children, although being innocent, are motivated by their flesh nature but even in being motivated by the flesh, their inclination is not naturally toward sin unless they have been delivered into the spirit of sin by the negligence of the ones set above them. Hence that as long as the world lies in the power of the evil one, there will be no end to the course of destruction.

 

[Serving Zion]

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the following which I highlighted above....here:

Alright, I'll give some explanation to it:

They just do whatever they think is ok and all of a sudden they are getting in trouble with grownups because the grown up doesn't know that they have done an innocent thing wrong.

Grown-ups already know the ways of the world, but children need to learn those things. There is no such thing as fences and boundaries in nature, and neither is there any concept of money. The concept of ownership comes about as a result of scarcity and sin insofaras the one who takes what another person needs when he doesn't need it himself, it causes suffering. So the world has constructed a whole system of guarding the rights of each member so as to try and maintain some civilisation. Children don't have any of that instinctively though because they are simply pure in knowledge. So when the grown-up sees that the child is breaking a social construct, they need to educate the child, but what happens in the moment of wrath is that the grown-up punishes the child and the child cries because it's "so unfair". And you can see that children are always grizzling and crying because the world doesn't treat them kindly - and that's what is at the root of it: a lack of empathy and compassion for the child's point of view. The grown-ups are content in their knowledge of the way the world works, and the child has broken a rule, and as far as the grown-up is concerned there is punishment for that because that's how rules are enforced. The problem is that the grown-up in that example is lacking patience and understanding of the child's point of view, and that is because the grown-up is offended or threatened by the child's error, or in some other way the pent-up anger inside of them has found an opportunity to let vent on the child, and the screams of anguish bring relief to that desire, or thirst, for justice.

It is the way of the grown ups that corrupts and teaches the children to give way to the evil sinful ways,

Probably a good example is this one where I went to pull out of the driveway the other day in my car, and it was a pretty busy road, and this guy in the car coming along the road stopped so that I could go across in front of him. Well he did that straight away, I hadn't even come to a rolling stop yet, and there was only one other car behind him, and while he was coming to a stop for me, I happened to be looking for traffic coming in the other way. So when I looked back in his direction, I saw that he had slowed down and was stopping for me, and the car behind him was being forced to stop too, and I wasn't expecting that. Maybe if I'd been waiting for a handful of cars to go past first, yeah... but this guy obviously already knew that it is a busy road (probably has been stuck on that driveway before), and he thought it would be courteous to give way to me. But he was breaking the road code to do that, and he was inconveniencing the driver behind him who had a greater right to his courtesy than I did, and so I was surprised.. I shook my head and motioned to him to go on ahead, and as he went past I waved to him to thank him, but I could see that he was fuming at me for having made him stop for no reason - but can you see that what made him do that is that he would have thought that being in my position he'd have been thankful for that courtesy - and what is behind that is a sense of impatience and faithlessness (which is a thing that only the saved ones can really understand). But if I had been a more of a soft person, and at times I have had to learn this, then I would have not wanted to offend him for having made a way for me, and so I would have gone out in front of him. But the mistake in doing that, is that the person behind him would have been rightfully inconvenienced and would have taken that spirit of injustice forward into the world. So I decided it is better to do justice by upholding the natural right of the one car behind him where I was morally obligated to give way according to the law. In that way, I had chosen to bear the brunt of his anger toward me, because I had caused him shame in declining his offer of privilege, and yet it gave to the one in the car behind him the sense that his moral rights are being respected of goodwill - which in turn inspires him to carry that example (spirit) forth in the world. As for children when they are put in situations where their moral sense is tested that way, they normally will concede to the grown-up, and if they don't, then as long as the environment permits it, the grown-up will proceed to force their corrupt ways upon the child. So I stood up against the corrupt ways of the sinner in that case, but usually a child will be forced to concede to them.

There's lots of similar such things as that. For instance when I was feeding the birds at the beach and a child came up and we were talking and I shared some bread with her so she could feed the birds too, and she was just being friendly as kids do, and when I had finished feeding the birds I was about to leave and I went to talk to the parents and share the gospel with them and the mother actually apologised that the girl had been bothering me! .. well I couldn't properly express how wrong it was to do that, because it is good in fact that people can be friendly and get along and enjoy feeding the birds together - and yet to the mother's point of view she thought it would be appropriate to apologise for her child having been friendly to me! That's what I mean about the grown-ups imposing their corrupted and sinful ways upon the children. No doubt you would know all about how much grown-ups feel that they owe an apology to the world for the "inconvenience" that their child is to it (Matthew 19:13). Children naturally do live in the paradise that God has made because God judges them with favour for their innocence, and yet the world can't wait until they come of age so that they can start pulling them into the same accursed ways that puts them at odds with God's character, and in fact the sooner they can do that, the sooner they get rid of the indignation of the innocent little brat who asks questions they don't like to hear and who cries over the spilled milk.

and because children are small and obedient, they admire grown ups and are easily influenced, they comply and take on the image of their fallen teachers.

I think that's pretty self-explanatory - and if it's not, then it should become clearer when you see the way the children go on about how big and clever their Daddy is. Of course children never actually want to hurt their parents, and so they will even take a beating and believe that it is the parent's way of loving them, in order to be at peace with the parents - because that's what love does. It bears all things, believes all things, and it always trusts.

Children are not little angels. They do require guidance.

As I have mentioned above, the angels in them (whether being holy or of the Satan) come down from the ones who are over them to guide them, as you say (Matthew 12:33). That's why they are innocent of the wrongs happening as a result of poor influence until such time as the desires give birth to sin (James 1:14).

 

[stovebolts]

I can reconcile this to either version of Psalm 51:5.

You and I see Psalm 51 radically different. And I have stated clearly why I do not believe it should be used in the manner you and others use it. I see no need to force my knowledge on you as you reject what I have to offfer.

the NASB and other versions, it states that David was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin his mother conceived him.
He had stepbrothers (I believe it was brothers) clearly from a different father. Also, we know that his mother had an affair with a King or ruler. I do believe he is stating this here....that perhaps he was not the son of his father. So....he was conceived in sin. The tendency to sin...the sin nature, which his mother fell prey to.

Ummm, where do you get all of this from? How do you accuse David’s Mother of having an affair? I have no clue where you get these ideas from. Please explain. David’s Mother was a devout and Godly woman and it upsets me her reputation would be slandered .

In the NIV and other versions, it states that David was born a sinner...sinful at birth and sinful from the time his mother conceived him.
This also could be reconciled with Romans 5:12 because, again, it speaks to the sin nature we all inherited from Adam and with which
we are born.

I don't believe there is any incorrect doctrine here.

Nobody understands the Hebrew language better than the Jews. They even have their own authorized dictionary. Here is their authorized version which is not in question and can be fully trusted for accuracy.

psalm 51:7

Behold, with iniquity I was formed, and with sin my mother conceived me.		זהֵן־בְּעָו֥וֹן חוֹלָ֑לְתִּי וּ֜בְחֵ֗טְא יֶֽחֱמַ֥תְנִי אִמִּֽי:
Behold, with iniquity I was formed: Now how could I not sin when the main part of my creation was through coitus, the source of many iniquities? Another explanation: The main part of my creation is from a male and a female, both of whom are full of iniquity. There are many midrashim to this verse, but they do not fit the context of the psalm.
conceived me: Heb. יחמתני, an expression of heat, as (Gen. 30:38): “And they came into heat (ויחמנה) when they came to drink.”

 

[JLB]

It sounds like some are born as "bad seeds".

There are definitely “tares”.


I don’t think many people will agree on that doctrine either.

 

[WIP]

That is your typical response. Serious question. Why respond at all? It may not be of interest to you but, it is obviously of interest to the OP and very well may of interest to others. Besides, this is a DISCUSSION forum, correct? So why not ENGENDER discussion?

First, I think it would be in our best interest for you to drop the attitude. There is no need for disrespect here. Maybe my answer was not the answer that you wanted but sometimes that happens.

Second, my response was serious. Do you not trust God? I do trust Him and therefore I believe the answer to this question is not important for me to know. God is Lord of all and has it in His control regardless of the outcome even if that outcome does not sit well with me. But, since I do not know that answer, it doesn't matter for me at this time because God will let me know what I need to know when I need to know it.

I presented those Scriptures because they are found in God's Word. Scripture does not contradict itself. Scripture is of God. So what do we do with those references I posted? Fool ourselves and play gods to reinterpret them and change their meanings to fit our desired outcome and give us a warm fuzzy or reconcile them with the rest of Scripture as God intended?

JLB and wondering offered some very good replies that gave me food for thought without being disrespectful. That is how it is to be done. If you truly are interested in engaging in serious dialog, then may I suggest that you do so with respect and love rather than the animosity you have shown toward me. Are you really that much better than me? It's certainly possible and even if so, as a reminder, please allow me to share another reference from Scripture...

For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
Romans 12:3 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

My PERSONAL belief is that few if ANY souls, regardless of their age at death, are left unsaved by Jesus.

Which ones would you say are left unsaved?

I think a lot of Christians read into verses statements that people are DEFINITELY going to Hell when such verses don't necessarily exactly make that claim.

Take Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

That verse is speaking to the vast majority of humanity. Some interpret this to mean that the vast majority are going to Hell. However, the verse doesn't explicitly make that statement. In plain English, it essentially says that most of us are lost sheep that go down the wrong path.

Matthew 7:13 says that we should enter through the narrow gate. It's narrow and not so easy to go through.
The other gate is wide and is very easy to go through.
What do you think it means that "the broad road leads to destruction".
What is this destruction Jesus is speaking of?

My belief is that Jesus is waiting on the other side and when such souls cross over, he goes and gives them a hug and says "Welcome! You're lost. Come with me!"

If a person is lost...how could they be saved?
Jesus said HIS SHEEP hear His voice
In John 10:9 Jesus says that HE is the door...and IF anyone enters THROUGH HIM, they shall be saved.
9“I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved,

In the Wedding Banquet of Matthew 22:1-14 Jesus states that the King told the servants to throw out a man
that was not wearing the proper garments.

What were these garments?
Matthew 22:11-12
11“But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
12and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless.

Jesus said that person was to be thrown out where there is darkness and weeping, and gnashing of teeth.
Where do you suppose that place is?
Matthew 22:13
13“Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Does that not seem the true nature of Christ?

Jesus told us exactly HOW to get to heaven.
His nature is that He would want everyone to be saved.
He said that when He died He would draw everyone to Himself.
John 12:32

But are there any conditions to salvation?
Are WE to answer in any way to the offer of God's salvation to everyone?

I was watching a documentary on German death camps. It showed a video of corpses being thrown, one after the other, into huge piles that were going to be set ablaze in order to cremate them. You've probably seen such videos too. Now, can you imagine Jesus being the one tossing one soul after another into the inferno? Yea, me neither.

Those poor persons in the camps were there by force of the Nazi government that intended to kill them all.
They were not there of their own free will.

God gives us the opportunity to choose if we want to be with Him or not.
Some choose to ignore God and even to blaspheme Him.
It doesn't seem like they WANT to be with God....
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

With all that said, I may be 100% wrong about EVERYTHING. I don't want to be accused of heresy. I'm simply sharing my belief based on everything that I have seen, heard, and learned about Jesus.

You're not a heretic!
We can have our own belief system...but is it correct?
That's why studying the Word of God is so important.
I've learned so much since I started reading the New Testament.