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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Are children born without sin
- Thread starter Rob G
- Start date
josefnospam
Member
no
Deborah13
Member
I agree. Inherited sin nature and therefore cannot help but sin.
Children are born IN sin. they are not born with personal sin.
This is where the rubber meets the road in our faith.What about children? what about retarded people?
With Adams sin, God condemns all at birth. There is SOOOOO much beauty in this and such a blessing in disguise,that most Christians miss it.
God did it. I , you and all mankind had no choice in being born this way. But He Did it this way so the people who could not make a choice for Christ can be imputed with eternal life through the work of Christ on the Cross.
By condemning all at birth, God has made ALL men a object of salvation, that way His Justice can be satisfied through Christ for every baby that could not make a choice and every person who lacks the mental capability.
Condemning us at birth is a blessing. It was not an act of Wrath on mankind because we deserved it(which we did) It was an act of mercy on mankind.
This is where the rubber meets the road in our faith.What about children? what about retarded people?
With Adams sin, God condemns all at birth. There is SOOOOO much beauty in this and such a blessing in disguise,that most Christians miss it.
God did it. I , you and all mankind had no choice in being born this way. But He Did it this way so the people who could not make a choice for Christ can be imputed with eternal life through the work of Christ on the Cross.
By condemning all at birth, God has made ALL men a object of salvation, that way His Justice can be satisfied through Christ for every baby that could not make a choice and every person who lacks the mental capability.
Condemning us at birth is a blessing. It was not an act of Wrath on mankind because we deserved it(which we did) It was an act of mercy on mankind.
Vaccine
Member
I remember the first time this sweet faced 2 1/2 year old with chalk on her dress looked at me and said her sister (who was asleep) was the one who drew on the walls. It took everything I had to not ROTFL, but calmly explain we shouldn't make the walls pretty or tell lies.
IMHO even though they do sin from a young age, they remain innocent until they can understand what a savior is. They're blind to their sin.
“If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." John 9:41
IMHO even though they do sin from a young age, they remain innocent until they can understand what a savior is. They're blind to their sin.
“If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." John 9:41
Deborah13
Member
What does this mean to you, IN sin? What scripture are you basing this on?
Are you saying that a baby has sin that needs to be forgiven?
Deborah13
Member
I would say yes, that until they understand, really understand right from wrong, they are not held accountable by God. I think that may be even older than we think. God knows the makeup of a child's mind better than we do.
I like your signature.
Psalm 51:5~~New International Version
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
New Living Translation
For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
English Standard Version
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
New American Standard Bible
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
King James Bible
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 5:12~~Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Romans 5:18~~So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Romans 11:32~~For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
He imputed condemnation on all. So He can impute Christ to all who die that cannot make a personal choice. A new born baby has no personal sins, but it has been imputed with Adams Sin. But it is a blessing in disguise! the first personal sin would be enough for the lake of fire, if God had not condemned them already!
Deborah13
Member
The Psalm 51 scripture I do not think is to be taken literally. Poor David, he was so distressed. I kind of know how he felt.
Romans 5:12 and 11:32 are easy to understand.
Romans 5:18 is more difficult for me to put in simple words of understanding.
When I read 5:12 - 32, I get that what we inherited was a sinful nature, not Adam's original sin, we are not held accountable for his sin as far as salvation goes. In other words when we accept Jesus as our Savior, He is not forgiving us of Adam's sin as well as our own.
So we understand this differently but that's Ok, we both agree a baby will not be condemned to hell or someone who cannot ever make that choice of Him.
deb you are just great and IMO you have alot figured out in this Christian life and walk.
One thing I would like to point out. When you study try to look close at Sin singular and sins plural. you will have to go back to the original language for the most part, our translations don't do a very good job at pointing this out. Its important though. one will become less sin focused when one starts seeing a lot of times "SINS" plural that are in the translations are actually "SIN" singular......meaning original sin or our sin nature.
Another thing, did Christ really pay for the Sins of the WHOLE world?I believe that He did. believers and unbelievers. If He didn't pay for unbelievers sins also, He didn't pay for the Sins of the whole world right? IMO sin is finished, now its ALL about the Son.
This is lots and lots of study and a light bulb from somewhere for me a few years back.
Sin is finished, Done, no more. Christ paid the price for ALL sin. Since it is finished, unbelief is even paid for.
Not ONE unbeliever will Go to hell for their Sins, they don't even go to hell for their unbelief. They just have the right to plead their "human Good Works" to God and do it without Christ. And we all know how that will work out. It doesn't even compare to Christ and His Divine good work.
when I was younger in Christ I would run around and say, "Christ paid for the sins of the whole world!" and my very next statement would be "If you don't believe, you will die in your sins!"....how can that be if Christ paid for ALL sin? The above statement clarifies it for me.
God Bless Deb
stovebolts
Member
I believe children are born into a sinful and fallen world. Being born into a sinful and fallen world is what they inherit and as they grow, become tempted by.
Many people misunderstand Psalms 51:5 New American Standard Bible
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
The context of Psalm 51 is surrounded with the sin David committed with Bathsheba and as a result, the child conceived through this iniquity is taken as a consequence. When David had sex with Bathsheba, it was not with the intent of a having a child. Come to think of it, do you think about having a child every time you have sex? Is procreation your primary motive for sex or is it something else? I admit to the latter.
So what is David relating this psalm to? I believe he is relating it to the act of lustful sex. When two individuals are in the heat of sexual pleasure, are they thinking about a child they may be conceiving or are they caught up in their own moment of bliss?
Psalm 27:10 For my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord gathers me in is to be taken in the same manner.
This line of reasoning agrees with Psalm 139:16-16 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
This is why David says Psalms 139:14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made, yet he states, Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Many people misunderstand Psalms 51:5 New American Standard Bible
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
The context of Psalm 51 is surrounded with the sin David committed with Bathsheba and as a result, the child conceived through this iniquity is taken as a consequence. When David had sex with Bathsheba, it was not with the intent of a having a child. Come to think of it, do you think about having a child every time you have sex? Is procreation your primary motive for sex or is it something else? I admit to the latter.
So what is David relating this psalm to? I believe he is relating it to the act of lustful sex. When two individuals are in the heat of sexual pleasure, are they thinking about a child they may be conceiving or are they caught up in their own moment of bliss?
Psalm 27:10 For my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord gathers me in is to be taken in the same manner.
This line of reasoning agrees with Psalm 139:16-16 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
This is why David says Psalms 139:14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made, yet he states, Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Deborah13
Member
I think this is a really good explanation and to the point. I hadn't thought it through that far. I just felt like he was so remorseful over sin and distraught, that he felt everything about himself was sinful start to finish.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Very good, the sin of the World is not imputed on them. All the people in the World had to do is receive the free gift of grace by faith. I like this comment.
Absolutely the scripture is taken out of context. A man was murdered for that birth to happen. David sent Bathsheba's Husband out to die, and God was not real happy about that.
Children do have one thing that we all do, and that is called flesh or carnal mind. A carnal mind will put making the flesh feel better first and why children always have to have it now. Children are "ME" people
stovebolts
Member
Genisis 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate
Seems Eve had the same thought huh? She wanted to be wise and hey, it looked good enough to eat! Wonder if she salivated?
A friend of mine has a saying I really like that goes like this.
A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
A fool learns from his own mistakes.
We have an opportunity to be wise...
I think we are all born with an inclination to do good and an inclination to do evil in other words free will. Either one we are capable of excelling at even at a young age.
Like God told Cain: If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.
Like God told Cain: If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
I like that, shared it with the wife.
Right, this idea of some born in sin nature Christians come up with is not backed by any scripture and made up. We all can do good, or bad, but even good out of God's will and plan is nothing and burned up. Jesus said ye your father the devil ............. but it was also connected to the works you do of your father the devil. His connection was based on their works, as I use to think all the unsaved had their father as the devil. If that were true then the believing spouse would not sanctify the unbelieving spouse and the children would still be unclean. So then it all comes down to being transformed by the renewing of our minds and thoughts life with the Word of God through the mortifying of the carnal thinking (Flesh) with the help of the Holy Spirit. It's not a sin nature, it's because we have physical flesh that we need to put away, the old man.
Some of the most carnal people I know are Christians who have no faith, and always talk about the way they feel. I feel tired, I feel sick, I feel this or that. They are ruled by their flesh and how their flesh feels at any given time. So if it were a sin nature that Jesus fixed then there would be no carnal and flesh minded Christians who have no faith, always fearful about something or sad about something.
Jesus gave us the tools to put the flesh under........... If I have not had a drink in 20 years but every day a battle not to drink then that is me struggling under my own power. If I have not had a drink in 20 years and I don't even think about it or even pulled by it. If I can just drink a beer once in awhile without going off the wagon then that is the Work of the Lord who Makes us free.
Flesh V.S the Work of the Word of God, and the Holy spirit. One is hard, one is lite.
Mike.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
This comes from the "it's gonna hurt me more than it hurts you" school of logic.
According to texts like Ezekial 18 and the like, no one is condemned for the sins of another. We are accountable for our own actions when we sin against God.
iLOVE
Member
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8 NIV
Unbelieving = rejecting Jesus; a hardened heart, the gospel will no longer reach your life until you repent and confess your sin(s) for unbelieving. Whenever you consider mans point of view (the world) over the gospel, you reject Jesus.
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