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Are Faith & War Compatible?

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Is it RIGHT and scriptural for the Christian to pick up carnal weapons of war in order to inflict injury and death upon another individual for which Anointed Jesus also died in the defense of any country?

I believe that bearing arms is acceptable for self defense and to feed your family (i don't like the idea of killing for sport), but I think that I would have an issue killing someone who was planning to murder me or even my family. I think if I got the drop on them I'd shoot them, but not to kill just debilitate to the point where they were no longer a violent threat. Human life is too precious to just take away IMO.
When it comes to war, I do not stand in favor of it one iota. War is ONLY acceptable as a defense mechanism IMHO. No nation should go into combat on foreign soil unless that soil happens to fall just outside of the borders the nation is trying to defend from an outside threat. Military endevours to me, should be strictly defensive and preventative. Killing in the name of one's nation is evil, whereas killing to save the lives of ones self and ones neighbors from a DIRECT threat is noble. Just my 2 cents.

In my opinion, ALL WAR not used as a direct defense of the lives of citizens unless God Himself directs it is evil.
 
Is it RIGHT and scriptural for the Christian to pick up carnal weapons of war in order to inflict injury and death upon another individual for which Anointed Jesus also died in the defense of any country?

I believe that bearing arms is acceptable for self defense and to feed your family (i don't like the idea of killing for sport), but I think that I would have an issue killing someone who was planning to murder me or even my family. I think if I got the drop on them I'd shoot them, but not to kill just debilitate to the point where they were no longer a violent threat. Human life is too precious to just take away IMO.
When it comes to war, I do not stand in favor of it one iota. War is ONLY acceptable as a defense mechanism IMHO. No nation should go into combat on foreign soil unless that soil happens to fall just outside of the borders the nation is trying to defend from an outside threat. Military endevours to me, should be strictly defensive and preventative. Killing in the name of one's nation is evil, whereas killing to save the lives of ones self and ones neighbors from a DIRECT threat is noble. Just my 2 cents.

In my opinion, ALL WAR not used as a direct defense of the lives of citizens unless God Himself directs it is evil.

God ordered people to kill in his name multiple times in the Old Testament, right?

Nowadays, I wouldn't join a war thats supposedly on Gods side.. because it's probably led by a bunch of selfish greedy people who just want to force their beliefs on someone else because they're different. Sad, but true.
 
Is it RIGHT and scriptural for the Christian to pick up carnal weapons of war in order to inflict injury and death upon another individual for which Anointed Jesus also died in the defense of any country?

I believe that bearing arms is acceptable for self defense and to feed your family (i don't like the idea of killing for sport), but I think that I would have an issue killing someone who was planning to murder me or even my family. I think if I got the drop on them I'd shoot them, but not to kill just debilitate to the point where they were no longer a violent threat. Human life is too precious to just take away IMO.
When it comes to war, I do not stand in favor of it one iota. War is ONLY acceptable as a defense mechanism IMHO. No nation should go into combat on foreign soil unless that soil happens to fall just outside of the borders the nation is trying to defend from an outside threat. Military endevours to me, should be strictly defensive and preventative. Killing in the name of one's nation is evil, whereas killing to save the lives of ones self and ones neighbors from a DIRECT threat is noble. Just my 2 cents.

In my opinion, ALL WAR not used as a direct defense of the lives of citizens unless God Himself directs it is evil.

Well i would not even kill someone to defend myself.

I believe Christians should take no part in any war, irrespective of its agresive or defensive nature.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

I do not think that one should join the service per/say. (inlist)
If drafted? Surely, but the Lord must come before Caesar. (Acts 5:27-29 + Dan. 3:14-18) Meaning that the type of service would need to be approved by God. Such as medic.

And surely Rom. 13 will be worn out before long when the real 666 testing comes along. And one needs to know beforehand its True message and what table of the law Paul has taught this from. The second one.

And by the way, welcome back.

--Elijah
 
I do think that in theory war can be justified. But in actuality whether any real wars can ever said to be just is highly debatable by virtue of the fact that sinful men (and women) are involved. I guess I see a scale with just and unjust at opposite ends and all conflicts fall somewhere within that scale and each individual must decide at what point on that scale at which its right to take up arms and fight.

In deciding where to draw the line I think the following come into play

  • war should be of last resort and force should only be used when all avenues of peaceful negotiation have been exhausted.
  • the motives for going to war should be justified, the protection of innocents is paramount - going to war to recapture land and property is not suffient cause
  • the war itself must not inflict greater long term suffering and evil than not going to war.
  • also the chances of success should be good - there is very little point in inflicting more evil if there is no possibility of alleviating the suffering of the victims

Leaving those considerations aside we should remember that all Christians are called to arms - there is a spiritual war going on all around us and Gods people must play there part in standing firm against the evil that would try to undermine all that is good - we need to take up the full armour of God and pray earnestly for all those in authority. With His help we can make a difference and ultimately He has the victory.
 
So, should a christian ever enlist in the armies of men for any reason?
your premise on gun aim is false. one have you ever fired a gun and taken a life? i havent but i have trained enough to realise that you will be tense and it will be hard to take aim that will hit some leg or arm(and keep it mind hit the thigh and he still dies) why? femoral artery! or the bicep the artery there aslo.

also i will use a pastors idea of self-defense(with my modification). lets say you walk by and you see a big man beating a five yr old and you are a pacifists, what would you do? talk to him to stop? he laughs and continues so then you get physical, he is too strong now what?

call the cops? they come and have to kill him as he branded a knife and and charged them. is it your fault that he died?
 
Military endevours to me, should be strictly defensive and preventative.
Well, I would be surprised (and saddened) if any posters thing war is acceptable for reasons other than "defense".

I think the real controversy is whether it is ever appropriate for a Christian to be involved in warfare.
 
Well, I would be surprised (and saddened) if any posters thing war is acceptable for reasons other than "defense".

I think the real controversy is whether it is ever appropriate for a Christian to be involved in warfare.
So long as it is appropriate for Christians to live in the benefits awarded to the victors is will be appropriate for Christians to be involved in the actions necessary.
 
So long as it is appropriate for Christians to live in the benefits awarded to the victors is will be appropriate for Christians to be involved in the actions necessary.
I am not sure what your point is here. I trust you are not suggesting that it is acceptable to engage in war in order to get a better quality of life.
 
This is something that I have been struggling with and praying for guidance. I became a Christian just the other day. Before that I went through the legal process to get a permit to carry a concealed handgun and I do so 99% of the time. I don't carry it to boast or look cool. I carry it for one reason and one reason only, for defense of my family, friends, and those who are innocent. Like jasoncrans example

also i will use a pastors idea of self-defense(with my modification). lets say you walk by and you see a big man beating a five yr old and you are a pacifists, what would you do? talk to him to stop? he laughs and continues so then you get physical, he is too strong now what?

However now that I've become a Christian I'm struggling with what the Lord wants me to do. If he wants me to put aside the gun? I've just barely began to scratch the surface of the Bible and all the answers it holds but I know of 2 examples which point to the idea of pacifism. One is the commandment "Though shall not kill". Another is when Judas Iscariot came with other people to the Mount of Olives to arrest Jesus Christ. One of the Apostles (I can't remember if it was Peter or one of the others) took out his sword and cut off one of the mens ears. Jesus told him to put his sword away.

EDIT: Now that I look at the exampe, why did Jesus Christ permit his disciples to carry a sword, if not for defending the innocent and themselves?
 
This is something that I have been struggling with and praying for guidance. I became a Christian just the other day. Before that I went through the legal process to get a permit to carry a concealed handgun and I do so 99% of the time. I don't carry it to boast or look cool. I carry it for one reason and one reason only, for defense of my family, friends, and those who are innocent. Like jasoncrans example



However now that I've become a Christian I'm struggling with what the Lord wants me to do. If he wants me to put aside the gun? I've just barely began to scratch the surface of the Bible and all the answers it holds but I know of 2 examples which point to the idea of pacifism. One is the commandment "Though shall not kill". Another is when Judas Iscariot came with other people to the Mount of Olives to arrest Jesus Christ. One of the Apostles (I can't remember if it was Peter or one of the others) took out his sword and cut off one of the mens ears. Jesus told him to put his sword away.

EDIT: Now that I look at the exampe, why did Jesus Christ permit his disciples to carry a sword, if not for defending the innocent and themselves?
You can be a christian and carry a legal gun,otherwise it would be impossible for a police officer,security guard, Army-Navy-Marines,Air force, hunters, to be christians. Your attitude seems to be correct, that your gun would only be used to save a life,so yes you can carry a gun and do not let anyone try to talk you out of it.
 
In some parts of the country carrying a gun is protection. Wearing a jacket is protection. Where i live if ya go back a 1000 feet or so you just might come face to face with a real cougar. In some places the cougars have 2 legs.


I believe your EDIT was spot on. God may change things for you, He may not. He pulled you from the pit just as you were. He knew you carried...Life with God is a true adventure!
 
I am not sure what your point is here. I trust you are not suggesting that it is acceptable to engage in war in order to get a better quality of life.
You can define it that way if you like.
 
You can define it that way if you like.
so the murder of the indians by president andrew jackson in the trail of tears so that "christian' farmers could farm land was ok? or how about when we took their land by force. funny john winthrop was very much agaisnt that when he was governor of mass.
 
I am anti-war, and am skeptical of any faith based scriptures (of any religion) that say killing people is a good thing.
 
so the murder of the indians by president andrew jackson in the trail of tears so that "christian' farmers could farm land was ok? or how about when we took their land by force. funny john winthrop was very much agaisnt that when he was governor of mass.
So Im really sick of your habit of leaping off Conclusion Cliff.
 
I'm new to Christianity, and the army never really was an option to me, but, hey--why not throw my 2 cents in, right?

I think a "just war" is OK. Obviously, what constitutes a "just war" is kind of hard to pin down, but I think WWII was just, if that serves as a good example. We live in a fallen world, and sometimes violence is going to be necessary "for the greater good." Wars for profit or over ideological divisions don't qualify as "just wars" to me, so the Vietnam War would definitely, to me, fall into the unjust war category.
 
So long as it is appropriate for Christians to live in the benefits awarded to the victors is will be appropriate for Christians to be involved in the actions necessary.

You can define it that way if you like

well how else is this man whose wife is off indian descent(seminole) is too take this? surely your are aware of the unjust past that the americans did too the indians. ie take their land, the spaniards wiped the ocala tribe out. general custer would raid and kill indians(not the warriors) but the woman and children. i do understand that back then there wasnt a rule of law for war. but even then if you ponder that.. it was wrong.

if i'm going to die for my country and serve, its best that i really know what it stands for. i dont serve for the rich here btw, nor the politicians. i do it so that others dont have to be killed.

self-defense is one thing. one could take that anyway which one could. perhaps a clarification would be in order. which you didnt do.

list these 'just wars" of american history..

some werent so just after all if we are honest. i do think that some indian tribes were justifiable self-defense but didnt we not say its manifest destiny


Manifest Destiny was a phrase which invoked the idea of divine sanction for the territorial expansion of the United States. It first appeared in print in 1845, in the July-August issue of the United States Magazine and Democratic Review. The anonymous author, thought to be its editor John L. O'Sullivan, proclaimed "our manifest destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence for the free development of our multiplying millions."
The specific context of the article was the annexation of Texas, which had taken place not long before. Other <NOBR>applications</NOBR> of the notion of manifest destiny were soon found. It was used to promote the annexations of Mexican territory acquired in the War with Mexico, of territory in Oregon gained through negotiations with the British, and the seizure (not carried out) of Cuba from the Spanish during the 1850's.
The philosophical support for manifest destiny was based on the idea that America was destined to expand democratic institutions in North America, which gave the nation a superior moral right to govern areas where other interests would not respect this goal. This was particularly clear with respect to Texas, and the alternative of a Mexican dictatorship, but it was also applied in the Oregon territory. Britain itself might be democratic, but that was not its purpose in Oregon.
Manifest destiny was a popular and easily understood phrase, which was adopted by successive political parties. Originally the position of the Democratic Party, it was absorbed into the platforms of the Whig and later Republican parties. Even the Alaska <NOBR>Purchase</NOBR> of 1867 and acquisitions outside the continent, such as Guam and Hawaii, were promoted as examples of manifest destiny in action. Gradually, the phrase has been seen as a cover for imperialism and political support has died out.

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so then is that a christian thing that we should send our soldiers to do?

i was taught this in history class in grade school and also college.

for the record i may love my country, but i am not ignorant of her sins. i dont hide them if i know of them.

that was the point i made by that statement. to maintain qualility of life? so a war for oil alone is justifiable? while i see that is a possibility. but that would have to be a self-defense deal where we are drilling and one country is taking oil from us to be acceptable to me. i dont see the need to attack canada(second on the list were we get oil from).
 
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