Are humans animals?

[happyjoy]

when you tell us that we are animals it has this connation, we have no freewill and are not made image of the lord.

Not true. We are animals, as animals have free will too. I have trained my dog to do many things. My dog doesn't have to obey me. She proves it by sometimes disobeying me. She chooses what to do. For example I have taught her to stay, but if someone she loves calls her... say for example my brother. She will often disobey me, and go to him instead.

 

[happyjoy]

I find it curious that you keep on bringing up the flat earth belief... what has that to do with this topic?

I don't keep bringing up the flat earth belief. Flat earth isn't about superstition. The flat Earth could could still be the center of the universe. Flat earth was simple ignorance on peoples part. The earth does look flat from our perspective.

Earth as center of the universe was superstition, and so is humans aren't animals.

 

[Lewis]

Humans are not animals, and not one time in the Bible did God refer to us as such. He made everything after their own kind, and He made man in His own image, is God a animal ? I should say not.

 

[happyjoy]

Humans are not animals, and not one time in the Bible did God refer to us as such. He made everything after their own kind, and He made man in His own image, is God a animal ? I should say not.

I can't help what you don't understand, but humans are animals, the world isn't flat, and Sun is the center of the Solar System.

 

[Lewis]

Humans are not animals, and not one time in the Bible did God refer to us as such. He made everything after their own kind, and He made man in His own image, is God a animal ? I should say not.

I can't help what you don't understand, but humans are animals, the world isn't flat, and Sun is the center of the Solar System.

You are going against the Bible. The reason, because God did not teach us this, and no well educated Bible reader will except what you are saying, no matter how well it is explained, or how good it may sound. It is you who does not understand, God did not make a animal in His image.

 

[happyjoy]

You are going against the Bible. The reason, because God did not teach us this, and no well educated Bible reader will except what you are saying, no matter how well it is explained, or how good it may sound. It is you who does not understand, God did not make a animal in His image.

I am not going against the bible any more than Copernicus was. Perhaps it is your ego that won't let you see that you are indeed an animal. You are not special. Sure, like a snowflake, you are unique, Just like everybody else, but that isn't quite the same thing.

The Christian who glorifies ignorance and superstition is no better than the Muslim who promotes ignorance and superstition.

 

[Lewis]

You are going against the Bible. The reason, because God did not teach us this, and no well educated Bible reader will except what you are saying, no matter how well it is explained, or how good it may sound. It is you who does not understand, God did not make a animal in His image.

I am not going against the bible any more than Copernicus was. Perhaps it is your ego that won't let you see that you are indeed an animal. You are not special. Sure, like a snowflake, you are you unique, Just like everybody else, but that isn't quite the same thing.

The Christian who glorifies ignorance and superstition is no better than the Muslim who promotes ignorance and superstition.

Ok, I can see there is no getting anywhere with you, this is a Christian board where the Bible reigns supreme, and your doctrine will not be tolerated, so I am locking this topic.

 

[Lewis]

Under further review this topic has been reopened sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[saintjim]

kinda a spinoff of the evolution lie I think
anyway its obvious animals dont pray- they have a soul I think but not a spirit that is condemned by sin although their body is under the corruption that sin brought in
..02

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.


Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.


Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?



man was made on the 6th day with the beasts. man in his fallen nature is just a beast. Only when we are born again from above do we escape the bondage of living by beastly fleshly carnal means and become more than a beast

 

[Mysteryman]

Not only are we created in the image of God, as mjjcb has pointed out. But mankind has similarities with plants and animals alike. All live, and all die. Yet, man was not made to die. God made it possible for mankind to live forever by way of the tree of life in the garden. And even though man disobeyed God, and by this disobedience all of mankind dies. God made a way for the disobedient mankind to be redeemed from the sin of death.

Animals do not die, just because man had sinned. Plants do not die, just because of the sin of man. It is God's natural order, that plants live to a certain maturity, then their seed remains, but the plant dies. There are animals that are carnivorous, and there are animals that are plant eaters. The same with birds, and the same with fish and creatures of the sea.

Animals do not have a soul. ( I am bound to get slack from that statement ) It is the soul that sinneth and it is the soul that needs redemption. I Corinth. 15:45 - "The first man Adam was made a living soul"

Animals , like mankind have a spirit . But the spirit of an animal goes back down to the earth. While the spirit of man goes back to the giver , who is God. So the spirit of an animal goes down, while the spirit of mankind goes up. Both animal and mankind have breath life. When breath life ends, both die.

It is the soul that seperates an animal from mankind, plus the fact, that man was created in the image of God.

 

[stovebolts]

Hervey,
All things suffered at the fall of humanity through no fault of it's own, even the ground was cursed due to man's transgression. This in turn had a profound effect on all of creation, not just humanity as stated clearly in Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Furthermore,

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Clearly, God is more than 'dust'. Thus, made in God's image is not referring to the physical. Let me better explain.

God did make us in his image. You see, God gave us authority to rule over and have dominion of His creation. We have been tasked with a great work tending to His creation. When scripture says we were created in God's image, it is not a physical image for as scripture states, God is spirit, but rather, perhaps it's a trait, for God is love.

But we are also 'living souls' formed from the dust of the earth. Living souls in the original hebrew is chay nephesh. The same chay nepesh is translated, 'Living creatures' and all living creatures come from the earth and have the breath of life until they die. When they die, their bodies return to the dust of the earth where it came from. However, when man dies, his spirit goes back to God who gave it while his body returns to the earth from which is was formed as well.

So you see, we are living creatures, just as the beasts of the field are living souls. In english, this can be taken as the word, "Animal". It simply means something that lives and breaths unlike say... a tree or flower which does not have the breath of life within it.

I find no harm in saying that we are animals, aka 'living creatures', aka 'living souls'. But in the same breath we need to understand that we share a different relationship with our creator for reasons I've already shared within this topic.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hervey,
All things suffered at the fall of humanity through no fault of it's own, even the ground was cursed due to man's transgression. This in turn had a profound effect on all of creation, not just humanity as stated clearly in Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Furthermore,

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Clearly, God is more than 'dust'. Thus, made in God's image is not referring to the physical. Let me better explain.

God did make us in his image. You see, God gave us authority to rule over and have dominion of His creation. We have been tasked with a great work tending to His creation. When scripture says we were created in God's image, it is not a physical image for as scripture states, God is spirit, but rather, perhaps it's a trait, for God is love.

But we are also 'living souls' formed from the dust of the earth. Living souls in the original hebrew is chay nephesh. The same chay nepesh is translated, 'Living creatures' and all living creatures come from the earth and have the breath of life until they die. When they die, their bodies return to the dust of the earth where it came from. However, when man dies, his spirit goes back to God who gave it while his body returns to the earth from which is was formed as well.

So you see, we are living creatures, just as the beasts of the field are living souls. In english, this can be taken as the word, "Animal". It simply means something that lives and breaths unlike say... a tree or flower which does not have the breath of life within it.

I find no harm in saying that we are animals, aka 'living creatures', aka 'living souls'. But in the same breath we need to understand that we share a different relationship with our creator for reasons I've already shared within this topic.

Hi Jeff

Yes, all of creation suffers because of the fall of man. I have no problem understanding this , so I agree.

God's curse upon the earth, was that man would toil for his food now. This curse was not upon the animals , nor upon the plants , nor upon the birds , nor upon the creatures of the sea. However it does affect them. For we read in scripture that God feeds the birds . And we read that the earth heals itself. And there is more in this area within the Word as well.

Actually trees do breath and plants as well. They can get their oxygen from water , as does fish. But as animals which have breath life, which is similar to mankind. One thing that animals lack is a soul. More on this in a moment.

Animals were not created in the image of God. Man was . When God speaks spiritually, we read about the hand of God and the other attibutes that he gave man, in realtionship to God himself. God breathed, God walking in the garden, the right hand of God, God sits, stand, run, God gets angry, God loves, God gets weary, God is a Father, God spews out of his mouth, God is head over all, left hand, speaks different languages, and I could go on. But God created the first man, both male and female in the one man Adam, which is the image of God. When man and women come back together in marriage, they become one again. Very unlike animals, even though some animals mate for life. Notice I said "some".

God caused man , by breathing into his nostriles, man a living soul. By breathing into man's nostriles, he also breathed into the man, the spirit of man. This came from God. Animals do not receive this ! This is why the spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

When man sinned, it was his soul that sinned - We are to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. The soul is not the mind, and the soul is not the heart, and the soul is not breath. Psalms 66:8 & 9 - "O bless our God , ye people, and make the voice of his praise to be heard: Which holdeth our soul in life, and suffereth not our feet to be moved" --- >

Psalms 49:14 - 15 - "Like sheep they are laid in the grave ; death shall feed on them ; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning ; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling" -- "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave : for he shall receive me"

Psalm 49:18 - 20 - "Though while he lived, he blessed his soul : and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself" -- "He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light" -- "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish"

Job 31:30 - "Neither have I suffered my mouth to sin by wishing a curse to his soul"

Numbers 15:27 - "And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering"

Numbers 15:28 - "And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him"

Mark 8:36 - "gain the whole world, and loose his own soul"

Luke 1:46- "My soul doth magnify the Lord"

Hebrews 10:39 - "them that believe to the saving of the soul"

James 5:20 - "shall save a soul from death"

I Peter 1:9 - "the salvation of your soul"

 

[handy]

Not only are we created in the image of God, as mjjcb has pointed out. But mankind has similarities with plants and animals alike. All live, and all die. Yet, man was not made to die. God made it possible for mankind to live forever by way of the tree of life in the garden. And even though man disobeyed God, and by this disobedience all of mankind dies. God made a way for the disobedient mankind to be redeemed from the sin of death.

Animals do not die, just because man had sinned. Plants do not die, just because of the sin of man. It is God's natural order, that plants live to a certain maturity, then their seed remains, but the plant dies. There are animals that are carnivorous, and there are animals that are plant eaters. The same with birds, and the same with fish and creatures of the sea.

Animals were not made to die either. All of creation was vegetarian prior to the fall:

Genesis 1:29-30 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

That animals are now carnivorous or omnivorous is a consequence of the fall. Prior to the fall, very probably prior to the Ark's landing on Ararat, no living creature ate another living creature. There certainly isn't any recorded incident of any living creature eating the flesh of another creature. Then in Genesis 9 after all disembarked from the Ark we read:

1And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. "The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

I'm glad this thread was brought back, because there was a comment made, I believe by Mysteryman, that animals do not love. If animals do not love, then what exactly is love? What is it exactly that humans do, that we call love, that the animals do not do?

 

[handy]

PS, it's my own, very humble, opinion, that upon the resurrection and the creation of the New Earth, all will be restored to their state prior to the Fall, the Lion shall again lay with the Lamb (or is it the leopard that will lay with the lamb).

At any rate, when that happens, I truly do hope that there is a tree with a fruit that tastes exactly like cheeseburgers! :D

 

[John]

But mankind has similarities with plants and animals alike. All live, and all die.

Just a note. The Bible to my knowledge never mentions plants "dieing" nor does it refer to them as alive.

 

[Mike]

If someone doesn't take the Word of God to be True, or they say it is wrought with errors, then I can understand that this person will not take scripture as evidence that we, while we might be in the same man made scientific category, are chosen, lift above all other creation, made in His image, to rule over all the creatures of the world. Just because the science community classed us in the same grouping, doesn't speak to God's design for us.

I didn't chime in on this for a while, because I thought it would die early on it's on volition. It screams new ageism; we are one with the trees, the earth, the animals - all interconnected. I've never heard a credible Christian declare that we are made on the same level, same purpose, as the rest of animals.

I made a pointed, too pointed, post directed at one person, which thankfully, was deleted, because I went to far at pointing the finger at one person. I've seen reference to a few lines from it, from people who read it prior to being taken off. Please forget you ever read it. I'm making this more broad in saying if some people don't believe the sacredness of the Bible and its reliability, this thread will end up going no where. We have the Truth in the Bible, and Christians adhere to it. If others don't accept it, then we're talking two different languages. Man and Woman, who were created to adore Him have always been the reason for His creation. No other animal does that, because they weren't created for that purpose.

Nothing ground breaking here. Just had to chime in, hopefully in a respectful way.

In Christian Love,
mjjcb

 

[Mysteryman]

Not only are we created in the image of God, as mjjcb has pointed out. But mankind has similarities with plants and animals alike. All live, and all die. Yet, man was not made to die. God made it possible for mankind to live forever by way of the tree of life in the garden. And even though man disobeyed God, and by this disobedience all of mankind dies. God made a way for the disobedient mankind to be redeemed from the sin of death.

Animals do not die, just because man had sinned. Plants do not die, just because of the sin of man. It is God's natural order, that plants live to a certain maturity, then their seed remains, but the plant dies. There are animals that are carnivorous, and there are animals that are plant eaters. The same with birds, and the same with fish and creatures of the sea.

Animals were not made to die either. All of creation was vegetarian prior to the fall:

Genesis 1:29-30 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

That animals are now carnivorous or omnivorous is a consequence of the fall. Prior to the fall, very probably prior to the Ark's landing on Ararat, no living creature ate another living creature. There certainly isn't any recorded incident of any living creature eating the flesh of another creature. Then in Genesis 9 after all disembarked from the Ark we read:

1And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. "The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

I'm glad this thread was brought back, because there was a comment made, I believe by Mysteryman, that animals do not love. If animals do not love, then what exactly is love? What is it exactly that humans do, that we call love, that the animals do not do?

Hi Dora -

I would like to explain to you about the word "all". The word "all" throughout the Word of God, either means --- with distinction , or --- without exception. The word - "every" in Gen. 1:29 and 30 means - "all". In both of these two verses, the word "every" , or "all" , means with distinction.

God made certain animals to be carnivorous. God didn't change the way in which he made animals just because of the fall of mankind. Never did God curse any of the animals, so that they changed from the way in which God made them. Then you pointed out, that after the animals departed from the ark, that in chapter 9 , God states that the animals (beasts) will fear mankind. And that the animals (beasts), meaning every moving thing, shall be food for mankind. The only thing God states, that man is not to eat the life of the animal (beast), that is the blood of the animals (beast). Lev. 17:11 states , that life is in the blood.

Let us also read this in Gen. chapter 9 -- Verses 5 and 6

Verse 5 - "And surely your blood of your lives will I require ; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man ; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man." This is why there is blood sacrifices in the OT. It is because of the fall of man, and the evil of man that God requires that beasts be sacrificed for food and blood sacrifices.

Verse 6 - "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man, shall his blood be shed : for in the image of God made he man"

Now beasts fear man, and man fears man. This is because of the requirement from God almighty himself !

In the garden, man ate what God gave him to eat. After the fall of man, God sent man out to toil the ground and grow his own food. After the flood, God not only gave man of the herbs of the earth. But he also gave man beasts to eat for food. At this point in time, there were no restrictions on which beasts could be eaten and which beasts could not be eaten. That all came within the Law of Moses/God.

The way man lived changed, but the way God made animals (beasts) did not change, except now they also fear mankind . They are now for food and for sacrifice.

Genesis 1:23 God actually seperates carnivorous from plant eaters. God uses the word "cattle" and then states "beasts". A "beast" is one in which - "devours" -- Psalm 80:13. And this is why God relates the adversary of God as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

 

[handy]

If someone doesn't take the Word of God to be True, or they say it is wrought with errors, then I can understand that this person will not take scripture as evidence that we, while we might be in the same man made scientific category, are chosen, lift above all other creation, made in His image, to rule over all the creatures of the world. Just because the science community classed us in the same grouping, doesn't speak to God's design for us.

This was the point I was getting at with the reference to the "Dawn Treader", that there is a difference between what we are made of and what we are. We are made of the same stuff as the animals, and scientifically we are classed as animal (as opposed to vegetable and mineral), even classed as mammal (as those whose mothers feed their young with milk) but it is God who determines what we are and God determined that man is higher than the animals and are in His image.

MM, this is an interesting discussion. You said, "Genesis 1:23 God actually separates carnivorous from plant eaters. God uses the word "cattle" and then states "beasts". A "beast" is one in which - "devours" -- Psalm 80:13. And this is why God relates the adversary of God as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour."

While it's true that there is a different word for cattle and beast used in Genesis 1:23, by no means does this infer that the "cattle" were herbivores and the "beasts" were carnivores. We see this clearly in Genesis 1:30 which states, "And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so." In the verse, it clearly states beast, not just cattle, and also includes birds and "creeping" things.

I use "Blue Letter Bible" to check out original words and I tried to check our your distinction regarding "all" and "every" and I could not see that "every" and "all" meant with distinction. What reference material are you using? I enjoy studying the various nuances of the words of the original Hebrew and Greek (I know, I'm such a nerd), but none of my reference material shows that particular nuance.

It was through Adam, according to Romans 5:12 that both sin and death entered into the world. If death did not enter into the world prior to the Fall, then animals certainly could not have been eating each other. I'm sorry, it just seems to me that it's assuming too much that Scripture does not actually say, to say that certain animals were carnivores prior to the Fall.

After the Fall, we do see animals being sacrificed. First to provide clothing for Adam and Eve and also sacrifices to God. This we do see. But, there is not one reference to carnivorous behavior from either man or animals prior to Genesis 9.

It's not that I'm disagreeing with most of what you say, just pointing out that what you are referring to is in the post-flood world, not prior to the Fall.

And, one final thought, it's the wolf that will lay with the lamb, the leopard with the young goat. The lion will lay with the calf and yearling and a little child shall lead them. This prophesy is in Isaiah 11 the full context of which is:
1Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
10Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.

In this prophesy it clearly states that the lions (and obviously other carnivores) will become herbivores. I believe that this is because that was how they were created in the first place, and that they will be restored to the natural (prior to the fall) state, when death is completely defeated at Christ's coming. The reason why I believe this isn't just a jump to a conclusion though, it's a belief I've come to by studying what Genesis precisely says and does not say in regards to the animals.

If you can find a reference to a beast eating another animal prior to the Flood, please share it.

 

[saintjim]

I am hoping for a reunion with all my pets in the resurrection life to come in New Jerusalem- not to mention the Lord and the Saints and my family known and unknown
great hope what
1000 years of living and reigning with the Lord on the planet and in space
shalom
sj